can you proove there isn't a deity?

[kloth]

I'm curious as to whether you even know what your point is or not, and how on Earth it is at all relevant to my comments.

Meh, actually not that curious. I'm pretty sure I already know the answer.

it's simple. someone either has proof or not that there is no kind of deity that exists. why believe there isn't one if you can't prove there isn't one?
for example: when i was a kid, my friend thought there was a monster in his closet, and was trying to convince me there was. i proved this monster didn't exist by opening the door and turning on the light in the closet and showing no possibility of an actual live physical monster like he claimed and possibly sincerely believed.

But does that necessarily mean that it doesn't exist? Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Maybe I stumbled on the truth by accident.


I think you're misunderstanding my argument. I'm not saying that god-claims are made up; I'm saying that if they don't have any more support than something that's clearly made up, then it's reasonable to treat them as if they don't exist.

i guess it could exist on another planet or underground or something.

i understand your debate. what i am saying is, how do you know they don't have proof of a deity that you aren't allowed to see and/or by that deity? maybe you aren't worthy...yet. if you happen to wanna be worthy of that.

 

[ImprobableBeing]

As far as I can remember every single time I have been asked "do you believe god exists?" when I answer no, the asker automatically assumes I believe god does not exist.

Not once has there been the follow up question "Do you believe god does not exist?" for me to also answer no.

I blame it on the black or white false dichotomy that most if not all religious people cling to.

You're wrong on that, there is no other situation where an unfalsifiable proposition of which there exist no evidence is even considered, none what so ever, nada, zilch, ingen.

It's just that religious people hold this question special and then it can't just be gone as if it was an equally retarded question on why male horses don't give birth to female dolphins which is a less astounding event than the least of the biblical miracle claims.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

it's simple. someone either has proof or not that there is no kind of deity that exists. why believe there isn't one if you can't prove there isn't one?

Apart from this having nothing to do with your clumsy and fault analogy of posting a komodo dragon in response to my argument, this is also another example of you missing the distinction between believing that something exists, and not holding the belief that it exists. Again, basic logical distinctions for the win.

 

[McBell]

You're wrong on that, there is no other situation where an unfalsifiable proposition of which there exist no evidence is even considered, none what so ever, nada, zilch, ingen.

It's just that religious people hold this question special and then it can't just be gone as if it was an equally retarded question on why male horses don't give birth to female dolphins which is a less astounding event than the least of the biblical miracle claims.

:biglaugh:

Creation
Santa
Reincarnation
Prayer working
ESP
Telepathy

:slap:

 

[kloth]

That's right, you don't see how. That's why a review of basic logical distinctions would probably be in your best interest if you want to engage people in meaningful discussion of ideas.

you don't see it either, otherwise you should be able to answer my simple question. i don't have an idea, just a question.

None taken, let me say here, the same to you and i do that knowing you will take offense.
Ok, well i'm going to make this a two pronged reply, one from my personal view and owe that isn't personal.
Personal: I didn't decide anything what so ever, i just cannot believe in something that is so astounding and for which there exists absolutely no evidence, believe you me i tried but i cannot. For me it's impossible to believe in incredible things entirely without evidence. Like saying that i'm god, why not just believe in that, eh?
General: Why not believe in everything you hear until you have evidence it's false?
Yeah, it doesn't work that way in any other part of your life, does it?

how do you know i will take offense, when you have never seen me get offended by anyone on this forums? sounds pessimistic to me, but whatever. or if unless you believe you are the only one who doesn't get offended.
isn't a belief a decision? a disbelief still is a belief wouldn't you say?
i don't know if i already asked you this, but if you don't believe, then what is your educated guess on what created life on earth, earth, endless time and space?

As far as I can remember every single time I have been asked "do you believe god exists?" when I answer no, the asker automatically assumes I believe god does not exist.
Not once has there been the follow up question "Do you believe god does not exist?" for me to also answer no.
I blame it on the black or white false dichotomy that most if not all religious people cling to.

well if you say you don't believe god exists, then i think anyone would assume that means you don't believe god exists.

if you say no to being asked if you believe god does not exist, then you are contradicting your answers. because it should be yes.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

you don't see it either, otherwise you should be able to answer my simple question.

I answered your question in my first post.

i don't have an idea, just a question.

You're lacking a lot more than just an idea.

 

[McBell]

well if you say you don't believe god exists, then i think anyone would assume that means you don't believe god exists.

if you say no to being asked if you believe god does not exist, then you are contradicting your answers. because it should be yes.

Your inability to see the difference is the problem.

The fact of the matter is that I do not know if a deity exists or not.
But that is not what I am asked, now is it?

The reason the black and white false dichotomy is a problem is because I am not in either of the two sides presented.
I am in between them.

I have no active belief concerning deities at all.
None
Nada.
Zero
Ziltch.

One wonders why that is such a difficult concept for some people to grasp.

 

[ImprobableBeing]

:biglaugh:

Creation
Santa
Reincarnation
Prayer working
ESP
Telepathy

:slap:

Creation is a fundamentally religious idea, you can't have it without a creator.

Santa is a product of sankt nicoloaus from Germany

Reincarnation is a Hindu idea originating from before recorded history in todays Pakistan (former India)

Prayer working is a religous idea.

ESP is a form of plastic that will never harden

Telepathy is what Paul the Persecutor of Christians used with Jesus.

Even if parts of these are today unbound from religion they ALL originated from religion.

I think you know that so i'm confused about what the point was.

 

[kloth]

Apart from this having nothing to do with your clumsy and fault analogy of posting a komodo dragon in response to my argument, this is also another example of you missing the distinction between believing that something exists, and not holding the belief that it exists. Again, basic logical distinctions for the win.

you were insinuating there is no such thing as dragons. i simply proved you wrong, despite how much you must need to be right, and may use denial against that dragons existence.
you can be a self proclaimed winner all you want, and i encourage that for yourself. but if you really want to defeat this topic, then give some proof that a deity doesn't exist. people ask all the time "prove there is a deity or a god" and maybe they can't, but if you believe there is not one because they can't provide suffienct enough proof one does exist, then you should be able to prove your belief there isn't one one then.

see? i simply don't know if there is one or isn't myself, so i have no belief against it or for it. i would like proof from both sides on who do believe or disbelieve.

 

[Levite]

can you proove there isn't a deity?

I can prove there's only one "o" in prove.

 

[McBell]

I think you know that so i'm confused about what the point was.

You're wrong on that, there is no other situation where an unfalsifiable proposition of which there exist no evidence is even considered, none what so ever, nada, zilch, ingen.

:biglaugh:

Creation
Santa
Reincarnation
Prayer working
ESP
Telepathy

:slap:

Stop please, you gonna make me pee my pants

 

[ImprobableBeing]

you were insinuating there is no such thing as dragons. i simply proved you wrong, despite how much you must need to be right, and may use denial against that dragons existence.
you can be a self proclaimed winner all you want, and i encourage that for yourself. but if you really want to defeat this topic, then give some proof that a deity doesn't exist. people ask all the time "prove there is a deity or a god" and maybe they can't, but if you believe there is not one because they can't provide suffienct enough proof one does exist, then you should be able to prove your belief there isn't one one then.

see? i simply don't know if there is one or isn't myself, so i have no belief against it or for it. i would like proof from both sides on who do believe or disbelieve.

I am god, bow before me or live in denial.

How is this helpful?

 

[ImprobableBeing]

Stop please, you gonna make me pee my pants

Yes, if you exclude everything i said except that part, it is funny, however if you include it, it's just a factual statement that makes you look like a bloody fool

I'm surprised you're not religious, cherrypicking quotes like that is the key to writing any religious scripture.

Maybe you should start your own religion, the religion of those who can't count to potato?

 

[McBell]

you were insinuating there is no such thing as dragons.

No, he didn't.
He insinuated that there was not an invisible purple dragon sitting on his desk.

i simply proved you wrong,

No you didn't.
In fact, you have not even addressed his insinuation.

You merely took one word from it and went off into left field with it.

despite how much you must need to be right, and may use denial against that dragons existence.
you can be a self proclaimed winner all you want, and i encourage that for yourself. but if you really want to defeat this topic, then give some proof that a deity doesn't exist. people ask all the time "prove there is a deity or a god" and maybe they can't, but if you believe there is not one because they can't provide suffienct enough proof one does exist, then you should be able to prove your belief there isn't one one then.

see? i simply don't know if there is one or isn't myself, so i have no belief against it or for it. i would like proof from both sides on who do believe or disbelieve.

The rest of your quoted post is nothing more than drivel stemmed from your left field adventure.

 

[McBell]

Yes, if you exclude everything i said except that part, it is funny, however if you include it, it's just a factual statement that makes you look like a bloody fool

I'm surprised you're not religious, cherrypicking quotes like that is the key to writing any religious scripture.

Maybe you should start your own religion, the religion of those who can't count to potato?

The fact that the list presented shows you to be flat out wrong...

Feel free to keep going as though it doesn't.
I will just have to go to the bathroom before I pee my pants.

 

[kloth]

I answered your question in my first post.

You're lacking a lot more than just an idea.

you did not answer the question. only made a comparison with a dragon. nobody has answered the question with proof. they explained why they don't believe, but that's not proof anymore than when people explain why they believe, which is also not enough proof for disbelievers.

Your inability to see the difference is the problem.

The fact of the matter is that I do not know if a deity exists or not.
But that is not what I am asked, now is it?

The reason the black and white false dichotomy is a problem is because I am not in either of the two sides presented.
I am in between them.

I have no active belief concerning deities at all.
None
Nada.
Zero
Ziltch.

One wonders why that is such a difficult concept for some people to grasp.

well if you are now saying you don't know if a deity exists or not, then the question doesn't apply to you. the question is for those who are convinced there is not a deity, not god specifically. you mentioned only god before, so even though you won't want to admit this, you were slightly confused with that answer from what i could see.
i however don't wanna get into a debate on the difference between god and a deity and how they are the same or not exactly and all that.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

you were insinuating there is no such thing as dragons. i simply proved you wrong,

If that's what you think I was insinuating, then you're in far worse shape than I thought.

despite how much you must need to be right, and may use denial against that dragons existence.
you can be a self proclaimed winner all you want, and i encourage that for yourself. but if you really want to defeat this topic, then give some proof that a deity doesn't exist. people ask all the time "prove there is a deity or a god" and maybe they can't, but if you believe there is not one because they can't provide suffienct enough proof one does exist, then you should be able to prove your belief there isn't one one then.

Where did I claim to believe that god or gods don't exist? If you understood the basic logical distinction between believing something doesn't exist, and not holding the belief that something exists, then you might start to get a clue about what I'm talking about.

see? i simply don't know if there is one or isn't myself, so i have no belief against it or for it. i would like proof from both sides on who do believe or disbelieve.

So, if I were to ask you whether or not you believe that god exists, would you answer yes?

 

[ImprobableBeing]

The fact that the list presented shows you to be flat out wrong...

Feel free to keep going as though it doesn't.
I will just have to go to the bathroom before I pee my pants.

It's a bloody list of religious events and you present it as something that isn't religious but believed, are you daft?

It proves my point, that is ALL that it does, all of it based on religion and none of it based on any other form of ideology.

Should have went with the tooth fairy but then again, not too many fecking adults believe in that and worship her so even if you'd be right about children on that you'd still be left behind.

This whole "no child left behind", that didn't include you, did it?

 

[kloth]

No, he didn't.
He insinuated that there was not an invisible purple dragon sitting on his desk..

i am going to have to assume you are also kilgore trout. absolutely no need to speak for someone else's debate when you have your own, and to that depth. your avatars are similar as well and you have the same belief, similar typing to me. so i will end anymore debate with you. thanks anyway though.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

i am going to have to assume you are also kilgore trout. absolutely no need to speak for someone else's debate when you have your own, and to that depth. your avatars are similar as well and you have the same belief, similar typing to me. so i will end anymore debate with you. thanks anyway though.

Yeah, that still doesn't make him wrong in pointing out your errors.