Canadian tribunal fines $55,000 for expressing Christian views on “transgenderism”

[Sky Rivers]

Technically they can cope and live without that reconstructive surgery. Will it kill them to not have it? Not at all. How is it this is a need when people make do? I didn't "require," any of my surgeries, but they sure helped a helluva lot. I'd say pretty much the only surgery that I actually required was having my extremely oversized tonsils removed. None of the other surgeries I've had addressed something that could potentially snuff me in my sleep.

I didn’t specify that reconstructive surgery was to be a life or death matter. Required for comfort and productivity? Yes. “Gender reassignment” surgery isn’t required, logical, or in any way beneficial.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Pardon if this is personal but why did you hate the fact you survived child birth? Your birth or you, giving birth?

It was my birth. I was born very late, blue going on black, and things were so bad that my mom didn't have a very good chance of survival either. I used to wish I would have died because it would have spared me a lot of misery and anguish. Most of it (I actually have several problems, such as bowed shins that lead to life long problems and what has been a non-stop marathon of knee injuries since I was 17) was due to the fact I was born male but have always identified as female. And I hated life back then when I was trying to live as and be male, I was a miserably wretch, things weren't good for me, and not having survived child birth would have spared me all that pain and would have been easier than killing myself. Overall, I didn't care about life and wasn't really concerned about things like consequences.
But ever since I just accepted myself and transitioning, I don't think that anymore. I won't pretend things are perfect, but few things in my life are. I'd love to have the healthy knees a 32 year old would normally have (or a 25 year old, or 17 year old, or an 8 year old), but I don't so I treat what I can to help things as much as I can. Tylenol helps to ease some of the pains. So does Premarin. I'm also autistic, and no matter what I'll never be a normal nuerotypical person, but I'm constantly learning ways of better blending in.

I didn’t specify that reconstructive surgery was to be a life or death matter.

Then why should it not be compared to a sex reassignment surgery?

 

[Revoltingest]

Reality is, my life has never been better. Things aren't perfect, and they never will be, but I actually enjoy being alive now and don't hate the fact I survived child birth.

Your success adds to the data.
It would be strange indeed to argue that you should've lived
a lesser life just to fit someone else's rigid view of gender.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Your success adds to the data.
It would be strange indeed to argue that you should've lived
a lesser life just to fit someone else's rigid view of gender.

I doubt I'd be doing any living at this point, and if I were it would likely be in jail with a rotting liver.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

A physically healthy woman or man who undergoes “sexual reassignment” surgery, shouldn’t be compared to a person who requires reconstructive surgery due to a car accident or who needs surgery to regain partial or full function of their hand or hands, for example.

Why not? Both serve the same purpose, i.e. make a person feel well within themselves.

 

[Revoltingest]

I doubt I'd be doing any living at this point, and if I were it would likely be in jail with a rotting liver.

Congrats on avoiding that downside!
Note:
I give much more weight to what people say about their own experience,
than to people making pronouncements about the experience of others.
Reminds me of that guy who tells us atheists that we're all dishonest for
denying knowing his God. Bless their hearts.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I honestly don't understand all the angst this subject creates.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I honestly don't understand all the angst this subject creates.

This is one way of looking at it:

 

[Sky Rivers]

It was my birth. I was born very late, blue going on black, and things were so bad that my mom didn't have a very good chance of survival either. I used to wish I would have died because it would have spared me a lot of misery and anguish. Most of it (I actually have several problems, such as bowed shins that lead to life long problems and what has been a non-stop marathon of knee injuries since I was 17) was due to the fact I was born male but have always identified as female. And I hated life back then when I was trying to live as and be male, I was a miserably wretch, things weren't good for me, and not having survived child birth would have spared me all that pain and would have been easier than killing myself. Overall, I didn't care about life and wasn't really concerned about things like consequences.
But ever since I just accepted myself and transitioning, I don't think that anymore. I won't pretend things are perfect, but few things in my life are. I'd love to have the healthy knees a 32 year old would normally have (or a 25 year old, or 17 year old, or an 8 year old), but I don't so I treat what I can to help things as much as I can. Tylenol helps to ease some of the pains. So does Premarin. I'm also autistic, and no matter what I'll never be a normal nuerotypical person, but I'm constantly learning ways of better blending in.

Then why should it not be compared to a sex reassignment surgery?

I’m sorry all this happened to you and commend you for being brave and open enough to share here. While I don’t agree with your choices regarding your sex, I do wish you the best in your recovery.

 

[We Never Know]

Typical case: nobody gives a damn or thought about it until a "concerned parent snowflake" starts to cry and demand things that are none of their business are their business.

I have no problem with LBGT's. It's their life same as a christian worshipping god is their life. Neither are my life nor the life of my kids.

Snowflake? If someone doesn't want a 15 year old boy using the same bathroom with their 13 year old daughter and by me agreeing with that makes me a snowflake, then I guess I'm a snowflake.

I'm sorry you have lived with pain and hurt through your life and I'm glad you are doing better now and hope it keeps getting better for you.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Snowflake? If someone doesn't want a 15 year old boy using the same bathroom with their 13 year old daughter and by me agreeing with that makes me a snowflake, then I guess I'm a snowflake.

As I mentioned, the typical case is no one cares and it's bothering no one and causing no issues. Until a parent causes those issues by believing it must be causing issues.

 

[We Never Know]

They don't pose a danger or threat because they are homosexual or for engaging in homosexual acts. It effects absolutely no one else, and humans will continue to be around.

The same can be said about many christians as they are always treated different and seen as bad people trying to push their way of life on others. I have family members that are very religious and that's fine for them. I do tell them don't push it on me or my children.

 

[We Never Know]

As I mentioned, the typical case is no one cares and it's bothering no one and causing no issues. Until a parent causes those issues by believing it must be causing issues.

If it bothers the females, that is causing an issue but what the females think seems to be a back burner deal. They are more worried what the one that thinks he's a female thinks.

Some females seem to not have a problem with it while other females do have a problem with it. The females should have the ultimate say since its being brought into their space.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If it bothers the females, that is causing an issue but what the females think seems to be a back burner deal. They are more worried what the one that thinks he's a female thinks.

That's typically not the case. Younger generations especially care far less than the older generations.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The same can be said about many christians as they are always treated different and seen as bad people trying to push their way of life on others. I have family members that are very religious and that's fine for them. I do tell them don't push it on me or my children.

Someone being gay isn't them pushing it on someone. Christianity, however, is lead by a man who lead a ministry of witnessing to the masses.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I accept that gender dysphoria is a mental illness. However, I affirm also that “transgendered” individuals are people and not to be dehumanized through their illness. I also affirm that gender dysphoria should be treated as any other mental illness and not taught as healthy.

I would like to ask you a question...perhaps a question that is a bit complex, but I think worth thinking about anyway.

First, is it possible that our brains (since you mention "mental illness") have a gender? That is, is it possible that the well-understood truth that males and females "think differently" and "emote differently" is based at least in part on structures within the brain?

Second, is it possible that the structures that make up the physical sex of an individual could differ from the brain structures that make the mental sex of that same individual -- if those structures are developed at different times during gestation, and influenced by different hormonal or other influences?

Now, it is actually well known that in-utero development of many body systems happen at different times, some speeding up while others are slowing down, or stopped altogether. So, the question I'm finally trying to get to is this: is it not possible that an essentially "female brain" could develop naturally within an essentially "male body" or vice-versa?

And if that were the case, would it really be correct to call it a "mental illness?"

 

[blü 2]

And no, not bringing back slavery... matter of fact it was largely the efforts of evangelicals that first brought the slave trade to an end

Yes, that's right. But the important thing in this context is that they did it because of their humanity, and not because of but in spite of the bible's words.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why not? Both serve the same purpose, i.e. make a person feel well within themselves.

Basically. It's cosmetic on the surface, of course, but improving quality of life is more than surface deep. If a client's hand could be saved, I wouldn't advocate for that because it would save my client's life, but because of the enhanced quality of life from saving the hand.

And if that were the case, would it really be correct to call it a "mental illness?"

That one isn't quite so clear cut and simple. It isn't being transgender that is considered a mental illness, but rather the dysphoria that results from discrepancy between brain and body. There by all standards is a disturbance that is significant enough in a client to be considered a mental illness, and the distress, though physiological, isn't physiological in the normal sense for an illness.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes, that's right. But the important thing in this context is that they did it because of their humanity, and not because of but in spite of the bible's words.

Yup. Because other Evangelics were fighting just as hard and breaking off from main denominations to preserve slavery.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Sorry to hear about your mutilation.

So my post gets deleted but this is allowed? This board is going down the toilet.