Canadian tribunal fines $55,000 for expressing Christian views on “transgenderism”

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, in my opinion, such a surgery involves a procedure which can be defined as mutilation. Furthermore, comparing a surgery which is done to save a life (removal of breasts due to cancer) to a surgery which is cosmetic in nature, specifically one which affirms a delusion ((sexual reassignmen

Both are done for medical reasons. Transsexuals have a medical problem and hormones/therapy are the medical treatments for it. You're simply creating a double standard.

Transsexualism is not a delusion. It's more accurately classified as a sex differentiation disorder. It's physical problem that occurs in the womb. We have scientific evidence proving that it's a biological issue.

 

[Sky Rivers]

While "prescribed"? My therapist didn't talk me into getting my breasts I removed, I contacted him so I could get his signature so that the health insurance would pay for it. I already had depressions about having breasts and looking feminine before I had any idea that transsexuality is a thing and that it would be possible to do anything about my situation.

And I am fully aware that I don't really have a male body. Still I feel much better now.

If you don't support people getting their bodies changed to their preferences, you probably also don't support other kinds of body modification?

In my opinion, your health insurance should not have paid for such a surgery, especially since it's cosmetic and not as a result of a life threatening or severely debilitating (preventing work) condition.

If adult men want to have surgery to look like adult women, that's their business. Likewise if adult women want to look like adult men, that's their business. In both cases, I view the surgery to be cosmetic in nature and due to that, it should be entirely financed by the individual requesting it.

 

[Sky Rivers]

Both are done for medical reasons. Transsexuals have a medical problem and hormones/therapy are the medical treatments for it. You're simply creating a double standard.

Transsexualism is not a delusion. It's more accurately classified as a sex differentiation disorder. It's physical problem that occurs in the womb. We have scientific evidence proving that it's a biological issue.

"We" have scientific evidence? Who is this "we" exactly?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

"We" have scientific evidence? Who is this "we" exactly?

Er, everyone? Once it's known, it's known. It's just up to the rest of us to inform ourselves about it.

 

[Sky Rivers]

Er, everyone? Once it's known, it's known. It's just up to the rest of us to inform ourselves about it.

You have to show me the studies if you want me to even consider your position.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

not as a result of a life threatening or severely debilitating (preventing work) condition.

Except that gender dysphoria is what you say, due to it often causing severe depression and anxiety.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You'd have to show me the studies.

You can Google it, too, since you want to act like an expert about it in here. You haven't presented evidence for anything you've said.

New study probes the genetic roots of transgender identity

 

[Sky Rivers]

Except that gender dysphoria is what you say, due to it often causing severe depression and anxiety.

Unlike cancer, gender dysphoria isn't a disease which causes death. While gender dysphoric individuals can suffer from depression and anxiety, they can also suffer from a variety of other mental illnesses. Do you know what else? Men and women who aren't gender dysphoric can also suffer from depression and anxiety (and other mental illnesses).

To give a great example, consider something called "body integrity dysphoria". Perhaps we should allow people to cut off healthy limbs, blind themselves, and who knows what else, all because they "identify that way"?

Woman Claims She Blinded Herself with Drain Cleaner to Fulfill Her Life-Long Dream of Being Disabled: 'I Should Have Been Blind from Birth'

Do you think this individual should legally have been allowed (covered by health insurance also) to be blinded? After all, she didn't identify as a sighted person; instead she identified as disabled (specifically blind). In fact, people with body integrity dysphoria claim to be depressed, anxious (even suicidal) simply because "that limb shouldn't be there" or they "should be blind". Men who identify as women or women who identify as men, also claim to be depressed, anxious (even suicidal).

Perhaps we should legalize special tattoos, tail and whisker implants for those who identify as cats?

Woman says she is a cat trapped in the wrong body - she hisses at dogs, hates water and claims she can even see better at night

 

[Sky Rivers]

You can Google it, too, since you want to act like an expert about it in here. You haven't presented evidence for anything you've said.

New study probes the genetic roots of transgender identity

I don't claim to be an expert in any field.


Furthermore, from the brief reading I have done of the linked content, I don't consider "possibly" to be the same thing as "is". Also, since this study is limited in size of group and duration, I have no conclusion to make on it. I will look more into it as time permits.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Unlike cancer, gender dysphoria isn't a disease which causes death. While gender dysphoric individuals can suffer from depression and anxiety, they can also suffer from a variety of other mental illnesses. Do you know what else? Men and women who aren't gender dysphoric can also suffer from depression and anxiety (and other mental illnesses).

To give a great example, consider something called "body integrity dysphoria". Perhaps we should allow people to cut off healthy limbs, blind themselves, and who knows what else, all because they "identify that way"?

Woman Claims She Blinded Herself with Drain Cleaner to Fulfill Her Life-Long Dream of Being Disabled: 'I Should Have Been Blind from Birth'

Do you think this individual should legally have been allowed (covered by health insurance also) to be blinded? After all, she didn't identify as a sighted person; instead she identified as disabled (specifically blind). In fact, people with body integrity dysphoria claim to be depressed, anxious (even suicidal) simply because "that limb shouldn't be there" or they "should be blind". Men who identify as women or women who identify as men, also claim to be depressed, anxious (even suicidal).

Perhaps we should legalize special tattoos, tail and whisker implants for those who identify as cats?

Woman says she is a cat trapped in the wrong body - she hisses at dogs, hates water and claims she can even see better at night

Unlike the lofty status you place upon your opinion, my personal opinion of a patient's treatment is irrelevant. All that matters is evidence-based treatment. Is the treatment shown from research to be efficacious in treating the condition? Hormones and/or surgery have been shown to be successful in treating gender dysphoria, so case closed. If you can show me research that backs the claims of BID patients, otherkin and whatever other oddballs you try to associate trans people with, point me to it.

 

[Sky Rivers]

Unlike the lofty status you place upon your opinion, my personal opinion of a patient's treatment is irrelevant. All that matters is evidence-based treatment. Is the treatment shown from research to be efficacious in treating the condition? Hormones and/or surgery have been shown to be successful in treating gender dysphoria, so case closed. If you can show me research that backs the claims of BID patients, otherkin and whatever other oddballs you try to associate trans people with, point me to ot.

I'm not aware of any research on the topic, since these individuals are few and far between, unlike the widely accepted LGBT+

 

[Liu]

In my opinion, your health insurance should not have paid for such a surgery, especially since it's cosmetic and not as a result of a life threatening or severely debilitating (preventing work) condition.

It did prevent me from work.
I managed to suppress my disphoria for a couple years but once I started doing meditating and related practices it came back up. Pretty sure I would have gotten an even better grade on my master degree without it, and especially wouldn't have been unemployed due to depression for several years afterward. I could hardly find sleep for days and weeks at the worst times and would break out into tears frequently.

If adult men want to have surgery to look like adult women, that's their business. Likewise if adult women want to look like adult men, that's their business. In both cases, I view the surgery to be cosmetic in nature and due to that, it should be entirely financed by the individual requesting it.

So your point is only political/financial? Okay, I can understand that - still, being transgender causes major depressions and in most cases surgery and hormones help a lot, so it's a good medical solution it seems.

To give a great example, consider something called "body integrity dysphoria". Perhaps we should allow people to cut off healthy limbs, blind themselves, and who knows what else, all because they "identify that way"?

Woman Claims She Blinded Herself with Drain Cleaner to Fulfill Her Life-Long Dream of Being Disabled: 'I Should Have Been Blind from Birth'

Do you think this individual should legally have been allowed (covered by health insurance also) to be blinded? After all, she didn't identify as a sighted person; instead she identified as disabled (specifically blind). In fact, people with body integrity dysphoria claim to be depressed, anxious (even suicidal) simply because "that limb shouldn't be there" or they "should be blind". Men who identify as women or women who identify as men, also claim to be depressed, anxious (even suicidal).

Perhaps we should legalize special tattoos, tail and whisker implants for those who identify as cats?

Woman says she is a cat trapped in the wrong body - she hisses at dogs, hates water and claims she can even see better at night

Oh I would enjoy to not have to pay that myself, I am thinking about getting some body modifications at some some point in the future (probably just simple ones like tongue splitting).
Seems great if people had an easier time to modify their body according to their wishes, both financially and socially.
And if it would be treated in a similar fashion as transsexuality, this would mean people affected with the desire to e.g. become disabled would actually go to a psychologist and get some proper consultation as to whether that really is what they want or whether there are other solutions, instead of doing the surgery themselves with no psychological support.

 

[Shad]

Both are done for medical reasons. Transsexuals have a medical problem and hormones/therapy are the medical treatments for it. You're simply creating a double standard.

One is removing a cancerous part of the body to stop the spread of cancer. The other is removing a perfectly functional body part to correct a problem with the mind which is missing the mark.

 

[Sky Rivers]

It did prevent me from work.
I managed to suppress my disphoria for a couple years but once I started doing meditating and related practices it came back up. Pretty sure I would have gotten an even better grade on my master degree without it, and especially wouldn't have been unemployed due to depression for several years afterward. I could hardly find sleep for days and weeks at the worst times and would break out into tears frequently.


So your point is only political/financial? Okay, I can understand that - still, being transgender causes major depressions and in most cases surgery and hormones help a lot, so it's a good medical solution it seems.


Oh I would enjoy to not have to pay that myself, I am thinking about getting some body modifications at some some point in the future (probably just simple ones like tongue splitting).
Seems great if people had an easier time to modify their body according to their wishes, both financially and socially.
And if it would be treated in a similar fashion as transsexuality, this would mean people affected with the desire to e.g. become disabled would actually go to a psychologist and get some proper consultation as to whether that really is what they want or whether there are other solutions, instead of doing the surgery themselves with no psychological support.

Tongue splitting? I do pray you don't but I am not your keeper. You will do what you will do.

As for your gender dysphoria, preventing you from working, I don't believe surgery was the best solution or even an acceptable solution to resolve your mental illness.

 

[Sky Rivers]

One is removing a cancerous part of the body to stop the spread of cancer. The other is removing a perfectly functional body part to correct a problem with the mind which is missing the mark.

I entirely agree.

 

[Willamena]

Two men raising a boy, two women raising a girl. What do you think the kid will see as normal? Our parents are our best teachers.

But it goes for the parents as well that we should let them make their own decisions about their own lives in this regard. Grown ups, after all, are just big kids.

What's good for the goose...

 

[Liu]

Tongue splitting? I do pray you don't but I am not your keeper. You will do what you will do.

No worries, haven't decided yet - even if it's people like you that would be my main reason against.

As for your gender dysphoria, preventing you from working, I don't believe surgery was the best solution or even an acceptable solution to resolve your mental illness.

Well, glad you are not in charge for deciding whether transpeople get surgery - it resolved nigh all disphoria I had and even helped with other issues I had (and partially still have but to a much lesser degree now) related to social anxiety.

 

[We Never Know]

It did prevent me from work.
I managed to suppress my disphoria for a couple years but once I started doing meditating and related practices it came back up. Pretty sure I would have gotten an even better grade on my master degree without it, and especially wouldn't have been unemployed due to depression for several years afterward. I could hardly find sleep for days and weeks at the worst times and would break out into tears frequently.


So your point is only political/financial? Okay, I can understand that - still, being transgender causes major depressions and in most cases surgery and hormones help a lot, so it's a good medical solution it seems.


Oh I would enjoy to not have to pay that myself, I am thinking about getting some body modifications at some some point in the future (probably just simple ones like tongue splitting).
Seems great if people had an easier time to modify their body according to their wishes, both financially and socially.
And if it would be treated in a similar fashion as transsexuality, this would mean people affected with the desire to e.g. become disabled would actually go to a psychologist and get some proper consultation as to whether that really is what they want or whether there are other solutions, instead of doing the surgery themselves with no psychological support.

Why would you want to get your tongue split?

 

[We Never Know]

Unlike cancer, gender dysphoria isn't a disease which causes death. While gender dysphoric individuals can suffer from depression and anxiety, they can also suffer from a variety of other mental illnesses. Do you know what else? Men and women who aren't gender dysphoric can also suffer from depression and anxiety (and other mental illnesses).

To give a great example, consider something called "body integrity dysphoria". Perhaps we should allow people to cut off healthy limbs, blind themselves, and who knows what else, all because they "identify that way"?

Woman Claims She Blinded Herself with Drain Cleaner to Fulfill Her Life-Long Dream of Being Disabled: 'I Should Have Been Blind from Birth'

Do you think this individual should legally have been allowed (covered by health insurance also) to be blinded? After all, she didn't identify as a sighted person; instead she identified as disabled (specifically blind). In fact, people with body integrity dysphoria claim to be depressed, anxious (even suicidal) simply because "that limb shouldn't be there" or they "should be blind". Men who identify as women or women who identify as men, also claim to be depressed, anxious (even suicidal).

Perhaps we should legalize special tattoos, tail and whisker implants for those who identify as cats?

Woman says she is a cat trapped in the wrong body - she hisses at dogs, hates water and claims she can even see better at night

There are also men that claim they are dogs/identify as a dog.

 

[We Never Know]

Unlike cancer, gender dysphoria isn't a disease which causes death. While gender dysphoric individuals can suffer from depression and anxiety, they can also suffer from a variety of other mental illnesses. Do you know what else? Men and women who aren't gender dysphoric can also suffer from depression and anxiety (and other mental illnesses).

To give a great example, consider something called "body integrity dysphoria". Perhaps we should allow people to cut off healthy limbs, blind themselves, and who knows what else, all because they "identify that way"?

Woman Claims She Blinded Herself with Drain Cleaner to Fulfill Her Life-Long Dream of Being Disabled: 'I Should Have Been Blind from Birth'

Do you think this individual should legally have been allowed (covered by health insurance also) to be blinded? After all, she didn't identify as a sighted person; instead she identified as disabled (specifically blind). In fact, people with body integrity dysphoria claim to be depressed, anxious (even suicidal) simply because "that limb shouldn't be there" or they "should be blind". Men who identify as women or women who identify as men, also claim to be depressed, anxious (even suicidal).

Perhaps we should legalize special tattoos, tail and whisker implants for those who identify as cats?

Woman says she is a cat trapped in the wrong body - she hisses at dogs, hates water and claims she can even see better at night

From what I see many claim gender disorder is genetic. I believe it's mental simply because going by genetics, the easiest thing DNA can tell us about an individual is whether they are male or female.
The DNA will show male while the mind claims female and vise-versa.