Capitalists may have the same mentality as Nazis: that people must be enslaved

[TagliatelliMonster]

If you are paying a worker 200 dollars a week for 50 hours a week...what are you? A benefactor?

That completely depends on the economic reality of the society you are in, minimum wage in place in that society, etc.
200 bucks a week could be laughably little or it could make you the richest man in the village. So some context might be helpful.

That, in combination with what the job is etc.
Also: 50 hours a week is a lot. A normal full-time work week varries from about 36 to 40 hours on average.

Yes...especially in Africa...where capitalists exploit the desperate labor force.

Yeah, like what your "socialist" heroes from the Kremlin do on a daily basis.

 

[PureX]

Capitalists do not have the same mentality as nazis: i.e., that people must be enslaved (controlled).

Capitalists have the mentality that people exist to be exploited. And if slavery helps to enable that exploitation, so be it.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You know...I have decided not to have children because I don't want my children to be enslaved by the rotten Capitalistic system.

Sure, that's the reason.

I belong to a little political party. We protest every now and then.
Once a colleague even spat at a cop in the face, for he wanted to forbid us from protesting.

What is this, the high school playground?

 

[Kfox]

I see.
It is a matter of mentality.
We are incompatible. My country has another mentality which is the result of 150 years of socialism.
That is why we feel much closer to the Russians, ideologically, culturally and spiritually.

Fair enough. Niger has more of a mixed economy like the US rather than socialism. In a mixed economy, if someone owns land and that person chooses to allow people from a foreign country to work his land, do you consider that stealing? If so, why? By the way; what country are you from?

 

[Estro Felino]

Fair enough. Niger has more of a mixed economy like the US rather than socialism. In a mixed economy, if someone owns land and that person chooses to allow people from a foreign country to work his land, do you consider that stealing? If so, why?

In my vision, raw materials like gold or uranium must be under the total control of the State, so the mere idea of a private owning oilfields is monstrous to me.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

How many workers did you employ?

6

What were their wages compared to your profit?

Does that matter? Are we going to establish wages based on what profit they generate?
Cool. In the first year, we made a 60.000 euro loss.

I guess those employees should then earn -10k euro for that year.
The year after, that turned into an 80k euro loss.
So that's -13k euro for that year.


I like this system. This way me and my partners don't have to fork up the 140k.


The correct answer, obviously, is that it matters not what the profit is.
What matters, is what the job entails and what the market value is for the skill involved for said job + additional stuff like actual working hours etc.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I explain you something.
The greedy bankers from France are exploting Western Africa through CFA Franc seigniorage.
Niger rose up against this evil empire.

It's a bit funny that you bring up exploitation in africa by mining its natural resources by foreigners

African Gold is Funding the War in Ukraine – RDI

Wagner Group forces are propping up African dictators in exchange for influence and lucrative mining rights As the bills for the war in Ukraine pile up, Russia could really use a gold mine. Thankfully for Putin, the Wagner Group has supplied several—all across Africa. Since February of 2022...

rdi.org

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/27/1221318890/russia-ukraine-wagner-group-putin-africa-blood-gold

What Is Russia’s Wagner Group Doing in Africa?

Russia’s Wagner Group has intervened in the affairs of several African countries, providing military and security support while expanding Moscow’s influence across the continent.

www.cfr.org

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Capitalists have the mentality that people exist to be exploited.

That's quite a statement.
Care to elaborate and explain?

I'm a business owner. I'm an entrepreneur and employ several workers. I guess I'm a capitalist, at least in that sense.
How do I have the mentality that people "exist to be exploited" exactly?

 

[Estro Felino]

It's a bit funny that you bring up exploitation in africa by mining its natural resources by foreigners

African Gold is Funding the War in Ukraine – RDI

Wagner Group forces are propping up African dictators in exchange for influence and lucrative mining rights As the bills for the war in Ukraine pile up, Russia could really use a gold mine. Thankfully for Putin, the Wagner Group has supplied several—all across Africa. Since February of 2022...

rdi.org

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/27/1221318890/russia-ukraine-wagner-group-putin-africa-blood-gold

What Is Russia’s Wagner Group Doing in Africa?

Russia’s Wagner Group has intervened in the affairs of several African countries, providing military and security support while expanding Moscow’s influence across the continent.

www.cfr.org

No, dear...Russia is in Africa to help the Africans rebel against the banking sewer that exploits their resources.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In my vision, raw materials like gold or uranium must be under the total control of the State, so the mere idea of a private owning oilfields is monstrous to me.

The raw materials are utterly worthless while in the ground. They only become valuable once someone digs them out.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No, dear...Russia is in Africa to help the Africans rebel against the banking sewer that exploits their resources.

LOL!!!!!!

Right.... when western corporations legally mine the land, then it's theft.
But when a mercenary russian group of thugs uses coups and warlords to seize control of mines to ship the materials to the "motherland" to fund the war effort, then it is to "help" the africans


You are such a joke

 

[wellwisher]

That's what transpires from Hannah Arendt's books : that the IG Farben demanded from the Nazis slave labor, and Jews were exploited so that the Capitalists that owned the IG Farben could obtain the profit maximization, and produce chemicals with basically zero costs of productions.

This is what Capitalism does to men: it transforms them into greedy people, who lose their humanhood, so I am entitled to call them greedy wolves.
Greedy, sadistic wolves disposed to enjoy seeing Jews dying while working in those camps.
They even built their factories around Auschwitz on purpose.
It's all in Hannah Arendt's book The banality of evil.

Thoughts?

That was not due to Capitalism, but political interference in the free market by the Nazis. It is when Government, which in that case was the Nazi Government tries to pick and choose winners, and then stacks the deck. Slave labor will stack the deck for any company in any industry. Then Capitalism turns to crap, since the rest of the competitors cannot compete. With supply less, price increases, then those who distorted the free market; Big Government, try to blame capitalism to cover their tracks.

For example, Biden and Harris play favorites; green energy versus oil, in terms of the free market. This lopsided spending and vindictive regulation caused inflation. Now Harris wants to add price controls to food, which is just another Government intervention, to cover its tracks, which will make things even worse. Kroger which is the largest food chain in the USA made a profit of 1.4% last year. There is no room to add price controls. Apple had a 22% profit but they are not a target by Harris. Still picking winners and losers. In the case of the food chain, their margin is to tight, they could go bankrupt, and then the local food supply gets even less and many cites, for higher inflation that shifts to the black market where food will be plentiful but more expensive.

Under Trump, he reduced regulations; stopped Government interference for oil drilling, and there was prosperity, since when the market is free more businesses appear which add competitions that increases supply, as well as quality. Price start to come down. Gasoline was $1.90. Now it is double due to Big Government. As soon as the Government tries to pick winners and losers, it not a free market anymore.

The US Government has to be the stupidest in history. Each dollar given to spend depreciates by -22.7% due the interest owed each year on the National Debt. These bonehead moves usually occurs when career politicians, who never owned a business or hired employees, decide they know better. The competition in the free market is enough work already, for any business. Also having the boneheads in Government add sand to the gears, leads to more failures, reducing supply, causing inflation.

In the case of the NAZI and IG Farben, this was like the DNC did to the USA, with their pet companies; green, while adding burdens to their competition with excess regulation; oil. There is ripple effect in the free market since limiting energy production, before alternate energy was in place increased everyone's cost and ate into everyone's paycheck. Then they blame the greedy business for their predictable screwup.

 

[icehorse]

That LGBT rights face opposition in Europe is very much a reality.

I know that it's oh so common to claim there is a category "LGBT", but I'd ask you to step back and reconsider that. It strikes me that LGB is one category and T is a different one, and that in practice that's well known. (And, fwiw, I know many people LGBs who agree.) And it's not about "transphobia", it's about trans rights activism.

 

[Stevicus]

Honestly I think the CIA sabotaged the two pipelines. This has been causing enormous economic problems for German GDP and for German society.
It's a destructive umbrella, not a protective one.

Well, certainly, there have been fundamental flaws in such a system, but all in all, Europe has done rather well compared to most of the rest of the world. Some of this may be due to being part of that umbrella, as well as a post-colonial legacy where most of the countries of the world are independent in name only, yet are still heavily dominated by Western interests.

I think that we live in a multipolar world...and all nations should cooperate instead of competing.
Europe is based upon nation-state and savage globalism fuels nationalism as a reaction.

I agree that cooperation is always better, but I sometimes wonder if humanity will ever develop and mature to a point where we can truly be a cooperative and enlightened species. It may mean "going against human nature," at least our more base, primitive forms of human nature which often plague us.

Another example is the human propensity to change, alter, and/or despoil their environment to such a degree that we have serious environmental issues and climate change to contend with. There's a certain "natural law" that comes into play here, as there are consequences to what we do - causes and effects. This is humans acting according to their own human nature, something so deeply cherished by some, and yet, here we have what we have.

People might gravitate towards nationalism or racism as primitive forms of tribalism, perhaps in the belief that "what's good for my tribe is good for me." So, there's a certain "self-interest" component about it, which can be said to be a part of human nature. Similarly, capitalists are also motivated by self-interest, but mainly for themselves as individuals or a group of investors in a corporation. It's for that reason that capitalism is seen as far more benign than the far more malignant positions involving nationalism and/or racism, but what capitalism does do is it legitimizes the idea of being selfish and self-interested. And then we wonder why so many in our society have become selfish and narcissistic. That, too, is a "natural consequence" of sorts.

That old nasty "human nature" is quite a bugaboo to our existence. We have to somehow make a conscious effort of the will to somehow curb, restrain, or alter our nature. We are animals with nuclear weapons, and it's in our nature to kill each other.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, certainly, there have been fundamental flaws in such a system, but all in all, Europe has done rather well compared to most of the rest of the world. Some of this may be due to being part of that umbrella, as well as a post-colonial legacy where most of the countries of the world are independent in name only, yet are still heavily dominated by Western interests.

This narrative has been working for decades of an unipolar world ruled over by the USA.
That world doesn't exist any more. We are 8 billion people and Western Europeans will soon become an insignificant minority, considering our birth rates.
Everything changed after the fall of the Berlin Wall. A new Europe has arisen. And in that Europe the strong alliance between Russia and EU is included.
The Americans have been doing anything to destroy this alliance...but I don't think it is fair. It's very, very, very unfair and cruel.
Europeans have never tried to interfere in the Americas affairs. So I don't see a mutual respect in this weird alliance called NATO.

I agree that cooperation is always better, but I sometimes wonder if humanity will ever develop and mature to a point where we can truly be a cooperative and enlightened species. It may mean "going against human nature," at least our more base, primitive forms of human nature which often plague us.

Another example is the human propensity to change, alter, and/or despoil their environment to such a degree that we have serious environmental issues and climate change to contend with. There's a certain "natural law" that comes into play here, as there are consequences to what we do - causes and effects. This is humans acting according to their own human nature, something so deeply cherished by some, and yet, here we have what we have.

People might gravitate towards nationalism or racism as primitive forms of tribalism, perhaps in the belief that "what's good for my tribe is good for me." So, there's a certain "self-interest" component about it, which can be said to be a part of human nature. Similarly, capitalists are also motivated by self-interest, but mainly for themselves as individuals or a group of investors in a corporation. It's for that reason that capitalism is seen as far more benign than the far more malignant positions involving nationalism and/or racism, but what capitalism does do is it legitimizes the idea of being selfish and self-interested. And then we wonder why so many in our society have become selfish and narcissistic. That, too, is a "natural consequence" of sorts.

That old nasty "human nature" is quite a bugaboo to our existence. We have to somehow make a conscious effort of the will to somehow curb, restrain, or alter our nature. We are animals with nuclear weapons, and it's in our nature to kill each other.

This Ukrainian War is just a cover for the ideological war between savage globalism and international banking, and socialist vision of society.
I am sorry...but my people is much closer to Russia, as for the vision of God, family and country.

 

[PureX]

That's quite a statement.
Care to elaborate and explain?

I'm a business owner. I'm an entrepreneur and employ several workers. I guess I'm a capitalist, at least in that sense.
How do I have the mentality that people "exist to be exploited" exactly?

Are you sharing the profits that they generate for you with them? Or are you just paying them whatever you have to, to keep them around? Are you consulting them and considering their well-being when you make decisions about how the business you own is being run or what it's future will be? Or is their fate basically the same as the furniture? When times are tough you'll lay them off work to stay afloat financially, but when times are good will you give them raises and bonuses? Share the good fortune? Or will you just buy yourself a new swimming pool?

When you see your competitors raising their prices for whatever reason, do you raise yours accordingly just because you know you can? If your competitors suddenly vanished and you found yourself operating a monopoly in your area would you raise your prices and consider it "just good business" to take advantage of the vacuum? If one of your vendors was going out of business and had to sell off his inventory to pay his creditors would you try to buy it for as much less than you usually pay for it as possible? Using his misfortune as your good fortune? After all, it's "just good business", right?

Are you beginning to see the pattern, here? And if you don't do these things, we both know that your competitors will. Don't we. Putting you at a disadvantage for trying to be more "fare trade" about it. Because capitalism is all about greed. Maximizing profits by exploiting any advantage you can find in every trade you make with anyone else. We call it "fair trade" but in fact it's exploitation in every and any way possible.

 

[Estro Felino]

That completely depends on the economic reality of the society you are in, minimum wage in place in that society, etc.
200 bucks a week could be laughably little or it could make you the richest man in the village. So some context might be helpful.

That, in combination with what the job is etc.
Also: 50 hours a week is a lot. A normal full-time work week varries from about 36 to 40 hours on average.



Yeah, like what your "socialist" heroes from the Kremlin do on a daily basis.

Since I was speaking of dollars and not of euros, I guess it was obvious I was speaking of the USA.

Btw...200 euros a week are totally fine.
The problem is 50 hours a week.
That is SLAVERY.
40 hours a week should be the limit.

 

[Kfox]

In my vision, raw materials like gold or uranium must be under the total control of the State, so the mere idea of a private owning oilfields is monstrous to me.

So if you buy property, and you find gold, or something valuable on the property you bought, that has to be turned over to the state? and that sounds fair to you? What country do you live in?

 

[Kfox]

Btw...200 euros a week are totally fine.
The problem is 50 hours a week.
That is SLAVERY.
40 hours a week should be the limit.

What about jobs like farming or construction where the weather and seasons dictate the amount of work available? With farming there are times when there is little work to do, then harvest time there is too much work to do. If the workers are okay with working 60 hrs per week during harvest time to make enough money so they can sit out during the slow times; isn't that fair? In many places when it is raining or snowing, most construction jobs can't be done so there is no work to do thus no pay; but when the weather is better, what's wrong with allowing them to work overtime to make up for the time they miss during the winter months?

 

[Father Heathen]

So you do know European politics...

Good. Tell me the difference between the European Popular Party and the European Conservatives Party.

While there are parties with similar names, neither a chatGPT inquiry nor google search produced anything with those exact names.