SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
That's the usual outcome when one applies logic and reason.
You should give it a shot.
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Cardinal Pell and Evolution
- Thread starter Kevin Armstrong
- Start date
You should give it a shot.
Audie
Veteran Member
Most everything you say is "I ", this,I think the information of original single continent is such information. But, if Bible would say 13.5 billion years, I would think it is a lie.
That is a lie. Bible doesn't even have the word pi.
Why should I believe anything you say, especially after that false claim about pi?
Sorry, I have no intelligent reason to believe it was copied to Bible. More probably it was copied from Jews. And most probably I believe things went as told in Bible, which means, all cultures have ancestors that had the same story, for some it have been corrupted more than for others.
Sorry, I have no reason to believe that.
If it is evidence for God, it leas to question, who would most probably be the real creator. I think it is Bible God, because He shows greatness that others don't have.
What evidence we have for life coming out of non organic material spontaneously, without any creator?
Yes it is, for life would be a sign of that. But, obviously I believe the creator is the Bible God.
or, "I" that, being YOUR personal
and infallible beliefs about what
YOU choose to think the " god"
YOU choose to believe in thinks
and does.
And of course you think you know
more science than any scientist on earth.
To all appearances it's not " god" but yourself
in whom you have such faith.
Have we heard correctly that humility
is a major christian virtue?
And when your brother becomes poor with you, and he has been sold to you, you shall not lay on him the service of a slave. He shall be with you as a hireling, as a tenant he shall be with you; he shall serve with you until the year of jubilee; then he shall go out from you, he and his sons with him, and shall return to his family; he shall even return to the possession of his father. For they are My servants, whom I have brought out from the land of Egypt; they shall not be sold with the sale of a slave.
3 Moos. 25:39-42
And he that steals a man and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
Ex. 21:16
Now the question is, what about the people who were from other nations? And this leads to question, who is a Jew. Is person a Jew, if he lives by Jewish rules and is circumcised as also slaves form other countries should have been?
And a son of eight days shall be circumcised among you, every male in your generation, he that is born in the house, or bought with silver from any son of a foreigner who is not of your seed. Surely the child of your house and the purchase of your money must be circumcised. And My covenant shall be in your flesh for a perpetual covenant.
Gen. 17:12-13
Yes.
I think world governments are immoral and corrupt.
Unfortunately I see no evidence for that.
Even if person voluntarily accepts the position?
And he that steals a man and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
Ex. 21:16
You shall not oppress a poor and needy hired servant, of your brothers or of your aliens who are in your land, within your gates. In the same day you shall give him his hire; do not let the sun go down on it. For he is poor, and has lifted up his heart on it; that he not cry against you to Jehovah, and it be sin against you. ... ...You shall not pervert judgment of an alien, or of an orphan; and you shall not take a widow's garment as pledge. But you shall remember that you were a slave in Egypt, and Jehovah your God redeemed you from there. For that reason I command you to do this thing.
Deu. 24:14-18
The word that was to Jeremiah from Jehovah after king Zedekiah had cut a covenant with all the people in Jerusalem, to proclaim liberty to them, that each man should release his male slave, and each man his female slave, if a Hebrew man or a Hebrew woman, to go free, that not any should enslave a Jew, a man, his brother among them. And all the rulers obeyed, and all the people who had entered into the covenant allowed them to go free, each man his male slave, and each man his female slave; so that not any should enslave among them any more; and they obeyed and let them go. But afterward they turned and caused to return the male slaves and the female slaves whom they sent away. And they subjected them for male slaves and for female slaves. For this reason the word of Jehovah came to Jeremiah from Jehovah, saying, So says Jehovah, the God of Israel: I cut a covenant with your fathers in the day I brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery, saying, At the end of seven years each man should let go his brother who is a Hebrew, who has been sold to him. When he has served you six years, you shall let him go free from you. But your fathers did not listen to Me nor bow down their ear. And you had turned today, and you did right in My eyes, to call for liberty, each man to his neighbor. And you cut a covenant before Me in the house on which is called My name. But you turned and profaned My name, and each man caused his male slave, and each man his female slave, to return whom you had sent away according to their desire. And you subjected them to be slaves and female slaves to you. So Jehovah says this: You have not listened to Me, to call for liberty, each man to his brother, and each man to his neighbor. Behold, I call for freedom to you, says Jehovah: to the sword, to the plague, and to the famine. And I will cause you to be a horror to all the kingdoms of the earth.
Jer. 34:8-17
do not become slaves of men.
1 Cor. 7:23
And I want to remind slave beaters:
And when a man strikes the eye of his male slave, or the eye of his slave-girl and destroys it, he shall send him away free for his eye. And if he causes the tooth of his male slave, or the tooth of his slave-girl, to fall out, he shall send him away free for his tooth.
Ex. 21:26-27
Not necessary all. But the disobedient child, as in the scripture may be. And it is interesting that atheist usually implicate it is about a small child who is disobedient. And when we read what the Bible speaks, it is about a person who is a glutton and a drunkard. This leads to question, what kind of children atheists have and, and is a glutton and a drunkard actually that evil.
If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Deu. 21:18-21
Jesus told that only God is good. So, probably no human is really good. I don't think that necessary means person is evil. But, obviously this depends on what is the standard for good. I thin good means one doesn't do anything wrong or badly.
I think evil person is a person who wants bad things. Non evil person may do bad things, but he doesn't want bad to happen and is sorry, when he understands he has done something bad.
What is there to reconcile. For us it is said:
Do not judge, that you may not be judged; for with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured again to you.
Matt. 7:1-2
Maybe it is good that you are not a Christian, or a Jew, when you see things that way. But, I think it would be good to know also this:
And when a man strikes the eye of his male slave, or the eye of his slave-girl and destroys it, he shall send him away free for his eye. And if he causes the tooth of his male slave, or the tooth of his slave-girl, to fall out, he shall send him away free for his tooth.
Ex. 21:26-27
It is not necessary, when there are rules like "love your neighbor as yourself".
I think your definition is wrong. Neighbor is anyone next to you.
I think that is ridiculous claim, when the others have nothing like the Bible.
Fossils don't prove Bible wrong, or evolution true.
I don't see the word "pi" there. So, I think it is a lie to say Bible gives wrong value for pi.
Probably you make the wrong conclusion, because you think both dimensions are about inner or outer part. Explanation for the dimensions is, other is the outside dimension, including the edge and other is the inside dimension. This means, the thickness of the vessel was:
(10 - (30/pi))/2 = 0,225...
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
The bible goes out of its way to make distinct rules on what should happen when slaves are beaten in a specific way. This implies that there are beatings that are ok.
There's no way around it.
If the position were that slaves can't be beaten, it would just say slaves can't be beaten - period. Instead of giving all these specific rules on what should happen when beaten in way X or Y.
Having said all that..... through all this nitpicking about beating slaves, there's also still that elephant in the room that slavery is apparantly ok.
Slaves aren't neighbours. They are property.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Read your bible.
Also, it clearly speaks metaphorically when using the word "neighbour". Or is it your position that it only refers to the people living next doors?
It's quite obvious that it talks about "fellow citizens" / "the people of your tribe".
It certainly isn't talking about your slaves or malakites.
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TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
And other people then muslims have nothing like the quran.
And other people then hindu's have nothing like the bagavad ghita.
Etc
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Fossils disprove a literal readon of genesis
Nothing "proves" scientific theories.
Fossils very much support evolution theory.
Audie
Veteran Member
Fossils, among many other things do
disprove a literal reading of genesis
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
No, it's everyone.
joelr
Well-Known Member
So when Genesis was written there was also no Bible?
She is saying the early books of the Pentateuch write about Yahweh as a typical Near Eastern deity. That is 100% true, I just read her book on the subject. There are dozens of comparisons.
There was no Bible when the first 5 books were being written so that is a bizarre statement. And yes other nations had very similar books.
One of Proverbs is literally an Egyptian book:
The third unit, 22:17–24:22, is headed "bend your ear and hear the words of the wise". A large part of this section is a recasting of a second-millennium BCE Egyptian work, the Instruction of Amenemope, and may have reached the Hebrew author(s) through an Aramaic translation.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Proverbs
You can hear Fransesca talk about it:
Francesca Stavrakopoulou Discusses Her Latest Book,
3:15 Yahweh is the same as older gods. Anthropormorphic, dynamic, colorful, emotional, vivid, changeable, masculine, real body parts. In "God: An Anatomy" Francesca explains the Hebrew text is very explicit in this.
Genesis 1:26 God said let US make humankind in our image
Job 1:6 One day the heavenly beings came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan also came among themLeviticus 3:5 Aarons sons sacrificed, pleasing aroma to the Lord.
15:35
Ain Dara temple - footprints of Yahweh walking in to the holy of holies. Gods lived in temples.
Not unique to Jerusalem.
18:15
Jacob wrestled with God, forced him to bless him and God renamed him Israel.
Genesis 32:24-30
Similar to Mesopotamian deities.
By John 1:18 the theology has changed and “no one has seen God”.
Genesis 18:16-17, 20-22 God appears to Abraham as a normal man with 2 other men who are also divine beings. God is also mulling over if he should tell Abraham what he is about to do.
Exodus 24:9-11 Moses, Arron etc, saw God
joelr
Well-Known Member
The Bible is just stories. Hominid fossils demonstrate we did in fact evolve from chimp-like creatures. Some Europeans even have DNA of older hominids in their blood.
No everyone, secular, religious, apologists, evangelists, all say it's pi.
Wait, you think "pi" was what it was called in the Iron Age? FP.
Dude, it wasn't called pi until the 1800s? But the ratio was known by the Greeks and used in ship building and construction. The Israelites also built ships and large fortresses, cities, temples and so on.
"An integral such as this was adopted as the definition of π by Karl Weierstrass, who defined it directly as an integral in 1841"
Biblical value of pi - Religions Wiki
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Exodus 21
20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
How I wish that wasn't in the Torah, but there you have it.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
That's for the Hebrew slaves, which can be bought, according to this verse?
Exodus 21:
21 “These are the laws you are to set before them:
2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.
5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.
And then there are the non-Hebrew slaves ...
Leviticus 25:44-46
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.So you think it's immoral. That is, unless god commands it?
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Look closer.
Yes. But that's not what we're talking about here, is it?
But tell you what, you can be my slave for life, and all of your children, and their children's children. I own all of you. What do you say? Do you want to volunteer?