Cardinal Pell and Evolution

[1213]

Seems you forgot what Jesus said about stoning the woman found guilty of adultery.

I remember that. It is possible to forgive.

If one supports the death penalty, then they simply cannot be pro life.

If one supports murderers and allows them to continue freely forever, one is simply not pro life. I think protecting people from evil, like for example baby killers, can be seen as pro life.

 

[1213]

Every single person who has a biological child has created and "given" life to them. They did not exist before that.

No, they didn't give life. They only connected few cells that then grew to greater lump of cells. In no part humans give life.

 

[1213]

You see those two things as different?

Yes, murder is unlawful/unjust killing. God can have just reason for killing, because He has given life.

So do our parents have the right to kill us when they're tired of us?
What kind of morality is this?

Parents don't give life.

Why is it immoral for a guy to kill people but then it's not immoral for us to kill that guy? It's too hypocritical to me.

Ok, and I am not saying you should kill anyone.

Person who murders someone, gives the same right for others. There is no way how he could defend himself after doing so. Those who give the death penalty, give the same right for others to give death penalty for same reasons. This means: Person who has given death penalty for a murder that killed and innocent person, can get also death penalty, if he also kills an innocent person.

I don't think anyone lives forever. I'm talking about this one life we know we actually get - that we're living right now.
If I were God I wouldn't have created evil in the first place.

Evil is not actually created. Evil is like emptiness or darkness, nothing really. Evil is lack of good, when good is not around, evil is in place. Evil became possible, when God allowed people to reject Him and when people were expelled to this first death. And this is possible, because people wanted to know evil. So, this "life" is actually a short lesson about good and evil, which is why we can experience also evil things.

But, please answer to this question: Should evil people live forever?

 

[1213]

You said you believe in a thing, and I can't prove it wrong, so therefore you must be justified in believing that thing until it's proven wrong.

The reason why I believe it is not that you can't prove it wrong.

To which I pointed out that you don't believe in the claims of other religions "until they're proven wrong." Which you've confirmed right here when you said "To me, Apollo is irrelevant and meaningless." You don't believe the claim that Apollo drags the sun across the sky every day with his chariot, even though nobody has proven it wrong.

Apollo is meaningless, because no one has explained what "Apollo drags the sun across the sky every day with his chariot" means and why they think so. Also, I don't think anyone even seriously claims it to be so, which is why it is irrelevant.

 

[1213]

I never said that God lied. You did. Why is this so hard for creationists to understand?

Where I have said "God lied"?

 

[1213]

So since it is their life that they are allowing to continue they can also end it.

No, because they have not given it. And it is the baby's life after conception.

 

[1213]

There when the Twin Towers happened, god was just "moving person from this "life" to eternal life with Him," so 9/11 was ok?

By what I know, people murdered others in that and murder is never ok. If murdered people were innocent, I believe God saved them to eternal life, which is nice.

 

[Brian2]

Which would be why the body would have been left up.

But the gospels tell us a different story so you are making up a fantasy in your head which you believe more than you believe what the witness reports tell us.

 

[metis]

Judgement of all people seems to come down in some way to the commandments of love. Christians also need to follow those.
But what is literalist about believing in the atoning death of Jesus as prophesied in the OT? Surely it is just accepting what happened and why as told in the New Testament.
Where is there a figurative way in the New Testament to understand the gospels. Isn't any figurative way to view it just ways for people who do not believe the gospels, to say they are not true.
What sort of figurative way do you interpret the gospels anyway?

I deal with it as I do any book or other source: read it and see what makes sense and might be helpful as a guide to life. The Gospels give such a moral direction even though I don't blindly believe everything written within the pages. If literalism works for you, great.

 

[metis]

I remember that. It is possible to forgive.

If one supports murderers and allows them to continue freely forever, one is simply not pro life. I think protecting people from evil, like for example baby killers, can be seen as pro life.

Who said that they should run freely? If you believe guilty people should be killed even though there are alternatives, then I have to question if you actually believe in what Jesus supposedly said. Seems that you're putting partisan politics in charge.

 

[metis]

Person who murders someone, gives the same right for others. There is no way how he could defend himself after doing so. Those who give the death penalty, give the same right for others to give death penalty for same reasons. This means: Person who has given death penalty for a murder that killed and innocent person, can get also death penalty, if he also kills an innocent person.

Reminds me of a Methodist minister I met who strongly opposes the death penalty saying this: "Why do we want to kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?".

Thus, if you believe in Divine retribution, then maybe let Him do that job.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So?

You just said that God has the right to kill his children.

So? You seem to think that's moral and an action that a loving god would carry out. Yikes.
Where does this "right" come from, by the way?

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, they didn't give life. They only connected few cells that then grew to greater lump of cells. In no part humans give life.

Yeah, they do. My niece didn't exist until my brother-in-law and my sister created her. That's how it works.

 

[Bthoth]

You just said that God has the right to kill his children.

If you see god as mother nature, then it does not come across as an intent or judgment.

So? You seem to think that's moral and an action that a loving god would carry out. Yikes.
Where does this "right" come from, by the way?

Change the perspective and it removes the personal flavor.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes, murder is unlawful/unjust killing. God can have just reason for killing, because He has given life.

So it's not murder when God does it because he says so. Yikes. That's not moral, imo.

Parents don't give life.

They most certainly do. I wouldn't exist if my parents had never had sexual intercourse.

Ok, and I am not saying you should kill anyone.

You are if you support the death penalty.

Person who murders someone, gives the same right for others. There is no way how he could defend himself after doing so. Those who give the death penalty, give the same right for others to give death penalty for same reasons. This means: Person who has given death penalty for a murder that killed and innocent person, can get also death penalty, if he also kills an innocent person.

Two wrongs don't make a right. I don't see how you can declare that killing is wrong, but then go ahead and kill someone because they killed someone.

Evil is not actually created.

I know, in reality.

But according to the Bible, God has created evil, since he supposedly created everything.

Evil is like emptiness or darkness, nothing really. Evil is lack of good, when good is not around, evil is in place. Evil became possible, when God allowed people to reject Him and when people were expelled to this first death.
And this is possible, because people wanted to know evil. So, this "life" is actually a short lesson about good and evil, which is why we can experience also evil things.

I think that's a just-so story in an old book.

But, please answer to this question: Should evil people live forever?

Nobody lives forever. Your question doesn't make sense to me.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The reason why I believe it is not that you can't prove it wrong.

Then why did you give that as a reason?

Apollo is meaningless, because no one has explained what "Apollo drags the sun across the sky every day with his chariot" means and why they think so. Also, I don't think anyone even seriously claims it to be so, which is why it is irrelevant.

I guess you aren't aware that the ancient Greeks very much believed in Apollo and erected temples in his honour and everything. They thought he did this because the sun made its way across the sky every single day and that was their explanation for it. Just like you have all kinds of supposed explanations for the stories in the Bible that you accept as factual.

Nobody has "proven it wrong" so why don't you believe in Apollo?

You seem to keep missing the point.

 

[Subduction Zone]

But the gospels tell us a different story so you are making up a fantasy in your head which you believe more than you believe what the witness reports tell us.

No. History tells us a different story. I did not make that up. The fantasy is most likely yours. Biblical scholars point this out as a flaw in the resurrection story.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yeah, they do. My niece didn't exist until my brother-in-law and my sister created her. That's how it works.

I thought that it was the stork. I guess I should not have skipped those middle school classes.

 

[Altfish]

By what I know, people murdered others in that and murder is never ok. If murdered people were innocent, I believe God saved them to eternal life, which is nice.

As opposed to God doing the murdering in the Flood.

 

[Audie]

As opposed to God doing the murdering in the Flood.

Now for the might- makes- right counter
argument.