Cardinal Pell and Evolution

[1213]

That's not how it works. When did you prove it wrong that Apollo flies the sun in a chariot across the sky every single day? We don't have to prove that wrong in order dismiss it, right?

To me Apollo is irrelevant and meaningless. I think you are allowed to dismiss anything you want, even if it would be proven right.

You have to show that the flood actually happened.

Sorry, I have no time machine and even if I would have, how could you believe it is not just something fake? I think we have enough evidence for that the flood actually happened.

 

[1213]

He supposedly killed every person on earth save for 8 people.
That's mass murder.

I don't think it is murder. It can be mass killing. And, because God has given life, I think He has then also right to decide how long life He gives. And, if one has not done anything to get the life, I think one should be just thankful for even a short life.

But, what do you think, is death penalty the same as murder? In Bible there is basically death penalty for evil people. Do you think God should allow evil people to live forever?

 

[1213]

So if I have kids, it's okay for me to murder them if I decide they deserve it?

You have not given life to them, nor to anyone else. People don't give life, they only can give birth.

 

[1213]

So thoughts aren't evil. Actions are evil.

Except when thoughts are about murdering someone, then they're the same as actions ... ??

No, thought itself are not a problem. Problem is, if person wants bad things, for example wants to murder someone.

 

[1213]

Well, sorry, but I don't believe in an afterlife, so your god is killing innocents.

If you don't believe in afterlife, then you obviously don't also believe God killing anyone and the whole "problem" vanishes.

But, if you could think this hypothetically, if God would move person from this "life" to eternal life with Him, it would not be killing?

 

[1213]

One excerpt, however, from the Bible suggests that, in ancient times, Israelite builders and land surveyors were working with much cruder approximations. Referring to the construction of the basin used for priestly ablutions in the temple of Solomon, the first book of Kings states: “And he made the molten sea of ten cubits from brim to brim, round in compass, . . . and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.” (1 Kings 7:23.) If one calculates the ratio between the thirty-cubit circumference of the “molten sea” and its ten-cubit diameter, it appears that the Bible’s redactors used the ratio 3:1 as a rough approximation for π. But what if the scribes who redacted 1 Kings knew that the value for π indicated in the text was merely an approximation? If so, how might they have signaled that awareness? Perhaps by using gematria, a hermeneutical technique whereby the numerical value of a letter is calculated based on its position in the Hebrew alphabet.
Significantly, in the text translated above from 1 Kings, the word “line” is used for “circumference” (“a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about”). In Hebrew, the word for “line” is qava, and it is usually spelled using the Hebrew letters quf and vov (many Hebrew words are spelled without vowels). But in 1 Kings, the word “line” is spelled incorrectly as qavah, using the Hebrew letters quf, vov, and hei. If each letter is given a numerical value based on its position in the Hebrew alphabet, then the value of qava (the correct spelling) is 100 + 6, or 106, but the value of qavah (the incorrect spelling) is 100 + 6 + 5, or 111. Thus, the text misspells qava, and the misspelling results in an error in the numerical value of that word, changing its value from 106 to 111.
Taking this bit of gematria into consideration, it appears that the scribes who redacted 1 Kings chose a very efficient way to express the value of π in the biblical text. Decimal notation was not in use at the time, and therefore if they had wanted to write that the “molten sea” was ten cubits across and 31.415 cubits around (which, of course, would have much more accurately approximated π), they would have needed to express 31.415 as the ratio 333:106 multiplied by 10, which would have required a great deal of additional text.

Ok, thanks, that is interesting. I think still it is possible that the dimensions are not of same circle and therefore can't be said they define pi. But, I have no problem with the idea that they are not even meant to be super accurate dimensions.

IS the lamb sacrificed then, no.
John was making Jesus the lamb of God, who took away the sins of the world.

By what the Bible tells, lamb was eaten 14th day evening/night, so it must have been killed just before it. I have understood the lamb was killed right in the beginning of 14th day about 21:00. Jesus was killed later that same day. But, I think the point is not to have Jesus exactly as sacrificial lamb, only to point the similarity.

 

[1213]

Then you should edit that post. And any rational person can refute that myth. You keep.telling us that you believe that God is a liar.

What has God lied?

 

[1213]

You need to take a biology class. Yes, they do.

No they don't, they only can let life that already exists to continue. People are living beings that produce living cells. Nothing of that is by their own merit.

 

[Altfish]

If you don't believe in afterlife, then you obviously don't also believe God killing anyone and the whole "problem" vanishes.

But, if you could think this hypothetically, if God would move person from this "life" to eternal life with Him, it would not be killing?

There when the Twin Towers happened, god was just "moving person from this "life" to eternal life with Him," so 9/11 was ok?

 

[Audie]

There when the Twin Towers happened, god was just "moving person from this "life" to eternal life with Him," so 9/11 was ok?

It works really well in the OT; "God"
gives someone else's women, city, land,
to the Jews, and any innocents in the way
just get to be with God (happier and wiser)
sooner. A wi - win, and God is well pleased.

What harm could come from anyone
harbouring such righteous and good
beliefs today?

Why, would it not be defying God to come
up with some stinking secular scruples
and decline thine sacred duty?

 

[Subduction Zone]

To me Apollo is irrelevant and meaningless. I think you are allowed to dismiss anything you want, even if it would be proven right.

Sorry, I have no time machine and even if I would have, how could you believe it is not just something fake? I think we have enough evidence for that the flood actually happened.

But you do not even know what is and what is not evidence. Are you willing to learn or are you just going to keep claiming that your God is a liar?

 

[Subduction Zone]

What has God lied?

I never said that God lied. You did. Why is this so hard for creationists to understand?

 

[Subduction Zone]

No they don't, they only can let life that already exists to continue. People are living beings that produce living cells. Nothing of that is by their own merit.

So since it is their life that they are allowing to continue they can also end it. You can't have it both ways. If it is still there life they can decide its fate at any time. If it is new life then they do not have that right. You are not being consistent in your reasoning.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Sponge Bob may have had the right to erase his drawing but I don't think I have heard a parent say they have the right to kill their children.

You just said that God has the right to kill his children.

 

[SkepticThinker]

To me Apollo is irrelevant and meaningless.

This is what you had said to me:
"Yes, I believe Noah ark history is true. And I believe you can't prove it wrong."

You said you believe in a thing, and I can't prove it wrong, so therefore you must be justified in believing that thing until it's proven wrong. To which I pointed out that you don't believe in the claims of other religions "until they're proven wrong." Which you've confirmed right here when you said "To me, Apollo is irrelevant and meaningless." You don't believe the claim that Apollo drags the sun across the sky every day with his chariot, even though nobody has proven it wrong.

I think you are allowed to dismiss anything you want, even if it would be proven right.

Of course you're "allowed" to do whatever you want. I'm talking about being reasonable and rational in our thinking though.

Sorry, I have no time machine and even if I would have, how could you believe it is not just something fake? I think we have enough evidence for that the flood actually happened.

What I need you to understand is how the burden of proof works.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I don't think it is murder. It can be mass killing

You see those two things as different?

. And, because God has given life, I think He has then also right to decide how long life He gives.

So do our parents have the right to kill us when they're tired of us?
What kind of morality is this?

And, if one has not done anything to get the life, I think one should be just thankful for even a short life.

Sounds like slave mentality to me.

But, what do you think, is death penalty the same as murder? In Bible there is basically death penalty for evil people.

"Death penalty for evil people." - Great, now we're back to trying to figure out exactly what makes someone evil.

Why is it immoral for a guy to kill people but then it's not immoral for us to kill that guy? It's too hypocritical to me.

Do you think God should allow evil people to live forever?

I don't think anyone lives forever. I'm talking about this one life we know we actually get - that we're living right now.
If I were God I wouldn't have created evil in the first place.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You have not given life to them, nor to anyone else. People don't give life, they only can give birth.

Every single person who has a biological child has created and "given" life to them. They did not exist before that.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, thought itself are not a problem. Problem is, if person wants bad things, for example wants to murder someone.

Wanting to murder someone is still just a thought.

 

[wellwisher]

Small children love story time, and do not get upset if the rabbit in the story can talk, even if science can discredit this. In terms of brain development, the brain development of a child is in an accelerating state, compared to an adult. Yet they like story time the most. Why does story time appeal to the stage connected to the most accelerating human brain development?

About 90% of the Brain Growth Happens Before Kindergarten. Incredibly, it doubles in size in the first year. It keeps growing to about 80% of adult size by age 3 and 90% – nearly full grown – by age 5. The brain is the command center of the human body.

The baby and small child's brain reminds me of springtime. In the spring, so much growth occurs in a very short time; trees bud, bloom and leaf up in a week or two. This full tree foundation, sets the stage for the rest of the year, until the fall.

Why would mythology and fairy tales appeal to the most accelerated stage of brain development? Children are not yet biased and migrate to stories naturally. The child's brain, by growing the fastest is developing all the core foundational structures, for the brain and consciousness. This spring tree brain time is the foundation for the summer tree. It appears story time appeals to the foundational brain, more than to the brain facade that comes last, with its slower growth rate. The latter is more targeted to specialty areas.

Mythology is actually connected to spatial thinking; right brain while science is more differential; left brain. Children know rabbits do not talk, but they do not fixate on that, since their faster brain thinks more in 3-D; symbols. This is harder to put into words do they more of the imagination to process it internally. It is interesting that at five years old, the brain is nearly full grown and many children start to question Santa Claus. They start to differentiate more; migrate more to the left brain.

Say a small child was taught religious stories, like Christmas and baby Jesus. Even if they become an Atheists, as an adult, when the brain slows, they will still remember these memories. These young child memories, may now upset them, but they are still part of the foundational brain, that may no longer suit the facade of the slower adult brain stage. The inner child and inner self is more about this foundational framework. Science is good for the outer brain, while religion symbolism can better reach the inner or foundational brain.

 

[metis]

When God does that we believe that is not the end of the children, they will be raised to life again and judged on their own merits.

However, it really doesn't say that in the Judeo-Christian scriptures or even hint of it. This is by no means are the only secular injections into scripture based on the area and the culture.

IMO, it's the general message that's important to me, so I don't expect the scriptures to be objective, and the one message that really resonates is Jesus' Two Commandments whereas he says all the others are contained in them. Even Spinoza agreed with that.