Cartoons Under Fire

[Darkdale]

However, I don't doubt that this belief is so widely known in the West because Christians are titillated by it.

wow - I'm not Christian... I don't even like Christianity, but if I were one, I think I'd be offended by that. lol Maybe I could burn down an embassy near you. jk RIOT! RIOT! RIOT!

*deep breath*

I don't think it matters how many virgins these people get for killing themselves and others. I don't think it matters that there are only a small number of religious crazies that believe it. What I care about is killing them first. What I care about is killing the people that encourage them.

When two groups of people cannot co-exist, there is only one solution. The West is made up of pluralist civilizations... we can accept many different ideas. Radical Muslims cannot handle that and they will not coexist with us. Violence is the only possible outcome. The tragedy is all the innocent people that die, that should not have.

 

[TashaN]

I dunno but it is in the Koran/Hadiths.

Like any other religious text it can be interpreted in many ways and apparently many Muslims interpret it to mean they will be getting some virgins for blowing themselves up.

First of all, any Muslim who suicide clearly will go to hell for killing him/her self.

Secondly, I wanna discuss the virgins thing ..

Do other faiths believe in heaven the same as Muslims do so?

If the answer is yes then continue with me ..

What is the purpose of heaven and why we wish to go there?

The answer is ...

Every pleasure in that Heaven is unparalleled to that in the worldly life. It is as the prophet of Islam, Muhammad (peace be upon him), described to enclose:

"What no eye has ever seen and no ear has never heard and no human heart has ever perceived." (Narrated in the book of compiled hadiths by Imam Muslim.)

Its food, houses, rivers, pleasures… everything is beyond imagination! And because the believer is always attached to the spiritual more than the sensual, even in Heaven, God has made the ultimate ecstasy for the believers there, is to look at His Holy Countenance. Such is a blessing, from which believers never get bored or even get accustomed to, despite familiarity. Also, there is no worshiping anymore once you enter to heaven and you will just enjoy there in eternal life and you will be immortal and no more death.

Why only focusing in the sexual pleasure while there are other enjoyment rather than the "hour" which the guys in here call it virgins in english but it has much comperhnsive meaning than this.

The thing that people don't know about heaven is that the Muslim there will meet his wife and some scholars said that those "hour" will be servant and other scholars said you can just wish what you want and if you asked even for many girls but not one so you will fet it. It was so normal in the past to have many slaves for example even before islam whether in Arabia or in the other nations so this concept was obvious to them and if you don't want "hour" if you are a Muslim so just don't ask for it.

I think i have gone off topic and we must stick to it and if you want to no more you are most welcome in the islamic forum or any other thread which talk about such a thing like "ask any question about islam" thread.

 

[michel]

First of all, any Muslim who suicide clearly will go to hell for killing him/her self.

I was very suprised by that; but http://islam.about.com/ confirms what you say.
In Islam, several things are clear:

• Suicide is forbidden. "O ye who believe!... [do not] kill yourselves, for truly Allah has been to you Most Merciful. If any do that in rancour and injustice, soon shall We cast him into the Fire..." (Qur'an 4:29-30).
• The taking of life is allowed only by way of justice (i.e. the death penalty for murder), but even then, forgiveness is better. "Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause..." (17:33).
• In pre-Islamic Arabia, retaliation and mass murder was commonplace. If someone was killed, the victim's tribe would retaliate against the murderer's entire tribe. This practice was directly forbidden in the Qur'an (2:178-179). Following this statement of law, the Qur'an says, "After this, whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave chastisement" (2:178). No matter what wrong we perceive as being done against us, we may not lash out against an entire population of people.
• The Qur'an admonishes those who oppress others and transgress beyond the bounds of what is right and just. "The blame is only against those who oppress men with wrongdoing and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land, defying right and justice. For such there will be a chastisement grievous (in the Hereafter)" (42:42).
• Harming innocent bystanders, even in times of war, was forbidden by the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). This includes women, children, noncombatant bystanders, and even trees and crops. Nothing is to be harmed unless the person or thing is actively engaged in an assault against Muslims.

Why then, do the terrorists believe that suicide bombing will lead them straight to Allah ? (which was an assuption I had allways accepted, in ignorance)

 

[TashaN]

Why then, do the terrorists believe that suicide bombing will lead them straight to Allah ? (which was an assuption I had allways accepted, in ignorance)

Because they think if the purpose is to kill the enemies so they can do whatever it takes to fulfill thier desire.

BTW, this thing is totally new "the bombing thing" because there was no such a thing in the life time of prophet Mohammed as you know. Therefore, some extreme think it's ok and the majority of Muslims said whatever the reason is suicide is totally unacceptable and very sinfull.

Nowadays saudi arabia is having really a hard time with the terrorists but they almost could catch most of them because i didn't read of new terrorist attack in saudi arabia like what was happening in the last few months.

 

[linwood]

First of all, any Muslim who suicide clearly will go to hell for killing him/her self.

This is why these Muslims refer to themselves as Martyrs and not suicide bombers.
They see it as a homocidal military act and not personal suicide.
The answer to this may lie in "why" Muslims believe suisice is a sin.

Secondly, I wanna discuss the virgins thing ..

Do other faiths believe in heaven the same as Muslims do so?

If the answer is yes then continue with me ..

Please understand me, I am not singling out Islam for it`s faults.
I am singling out all religious dogma for its faults.

The fact that Islam is comparable to other religions in it`s mythology isn`t a defense.
It`s evidence of the danger of all religious dogma.

The dogma of "heaven" regardless of whose dogma it is is destructive to humanity in so many ways.
This is but one example.

 

[Quiddity]

The dogma of "heaven" regardless of whose dogma it is is destructive to humanity in so many ways.
This is but one example.

Dogma don't kill people. People kill people. I'm not really sure why you struggle to see this distinction.

 

[linwood]

Dogma don't kill people. People kill people. I'm not really sure why you struggle to see this distinction.

Because it doesn`t exist.

Do you really want to get into the blood drenched history of people living out their dogma again?

It`s starting to bore me.

 

[Quiddity]

Because it doesn`t exist.

Do you really want to get into the blood drenched history of people living out their dogma again?

It`s starting to bore me.

Me too and we are getting off topic...Nonetheless I will continue to make the correction until you have something to show for it.

 

[Smoke]

Dogma don't kill people. People kill people.

Especially, people who believe in dogma kill people.

 

[Judgement Day]

apparently many Muslims interpret it to mean they will be getting some virgins for blowing themselves up.

That is not true. Islam forbids blowing yourself up and causing other innocent people to suffer. Dont make such a statement that gives the impression that Muslims are like that. There may be some Muslims, but they are the minority, and minority doesnt represent majority. Havent you noticed what michel posted? That suicide is forbidden: "O ye who believe!... [do not] kill yourselves, for truly Allah has been to you Most Merciful. If any do that in rancour and injustice, soon shall We cast him into the Fire..." (Qur'an 4:29-30).

 

[linwood]

That is not true. Islam forbids blowing yourself up and causing other innocent people to suffer. Dont make such a statement that gives the impression that Muslims are like that. There may be some Muslims, but they are the minority, and minority doesnt represent majority. Havent you noticed what michel posted? That suicide is forbidden: "O ye who believe!... [do not] kill yourselves, for truly Allah has been to you Most Merciful. If any do that in rancour and injustice, soon shall We cast him into the Fire..." (Qur'an 4:29-30).

It is true.
I repeat the words of Muslims themselves.

It is not my fault they interpret their dogma differently than you do.

They are Muslims and they believe it is true.

It is in my experience that Muslims seem to put more faith in the Hadiths than they do the Koran to begin with.
I always find it entertaining when a Muslim say "Thats not in the Koran!!" only to find it within the Hadiths.

Irony.

As far as suicide goes they do not believe theyb are comitting suicide.
they believe they are fighting for their faith.

n ow again I`ll ask why is suicide wrong in Islam?
This may be the problem.

 

[Judgement Day]

It is true.
I repeat the words of Muslims themselves.

It is not my fault they interpret their dogma differently than you do.

They are Muslims and they believe it is true.

It is in my experience that Muslims seem to put more faith in the Hadiths than they do the Koran to begin with.
I always find it entertaining when a Muslim say "Thats not in the Koran!!" only to find it within the Hadiths.

Irony.

As far as suicide goes they do not believe theyb are comitting suicide.
they believe they are fighting for their faith.

n ow again I`ll ask why is suicide wrong in Islam?
This may be the problem.

You said in your post that MANY Muslims are like that. Read my post again: It is true from some MINORITY but not for the majority of Muslims. Please becareful in the use of words because it could be misinterpreted by someone else who reads it and doesnt know, or have slight understanding in Islam.

It is true that minority of Muslims believe that they are fighting for their faith by commiting suicide, which is not true according to Islam. And that is really sad.

Suicide is wrong is Islam because committing suicide is a grave sin. Many scholars view a person who has committed suicide as someone who has turned his back on Islam altogether. However, a man committed suicide at the time of the Prophet. The Prophet did not offer the prayer for the deceased person (i.e. janazah prayer for him), but told his companions to offer it. When they did, they obviously prayed Allah to forgive him. Therefore, it is permissible to mention a person who has committed suicide in our supplication and pray Allah to forgive him.

Quran is our main source, and Hadiths completes the Quran. Everything in Hadiths does not conflict of anything said in the Quran. Quran contains words from God, while Hadiths contains what has been done by Prophet Muhammad which is based on the Quran.

 

[linwood]

It is true that minority of Muslims believe that they are fighting for their faith by commiting suicide, which is not true according to Islam. And that is really sad.

JD,
We are talking about a minority that is at least hundreds of thousands strong.
The term "minority" in this instance belies the scope of the problem.
This "minority" includes some of the most respected Imams Islam has to offer.

I am an Infidel, I cannot judge who is a "true" Muslim and who is not.
They are all Muslims to me.

 

[Judgement Day]

JD,
We are talking about a minority that is at least hundreds of thousands strong.
The term "minority" in this instance belies the scope of the problem.
This "minority" includes some of the most respected Imams Islam has to offer.

I am an Infidel, I cannot judge who is a "true" Muslim and who is not.
They are all Muslims to me.

There are almost about 2 billlions of Muslims all across the world. Comparing to only hundreds of thousands(if your assumption of the number of them is right), it is surely a minority.

I am also concern that you are an infidel, thats why we, Muslims, are here to clear things up.

 

[linwood]

There are almost about 2 billlions of Muslims all across the world. Comparing to only hundreds of thousands(if your assumption of the number of them is right), it is surely a minority.

I never stated it wasn`t a minority but the fact that hundreds of thousands of Muslims use their religious dogma to rationalize extreme violence isn`t made any easier to swallow by knowing there are 1.5 billion who do not.

 

[Judgement Day]

I never stated it wasn`t a minority but the fact that hundreds of thousands of Muslims use their religious dogma to rationalize extreme violence isn`t made any easier to swallow by knowing there are 1.5 billion who do not.

Thats why we need to able to see through deceptions. To be able to judge something objectively, not by the actions of some irresponsible minorities.

 

[Fluffy]

I never stated it wasn`t a minority but the fact that hundreds of thousands of Muslims use their religious dogma to rationalize extreme violence isn`t made any easier to swallow by knowing there are 1.5 billion who do not.

It also doesn't make it easier to swallow when these 1.5 billion seem to kick up a greater fuss over these cartoons than over the subsequent violence and previous terrorism.

 

[Darkdale]

Who cares?

Let us get away from the BS. ok? Pictures mean what?

 

[linwood]

Thats why we need to able to see through deceptions. To be able to judge something objectively, not by the actions of some irresponsible minorities.

Trust me, I see through the deception.
I`m merely attempting to make it easier for others to as well.

The biggest deception here is the statement "Not by the actions of some irresponsible minorities" as if we were not talking about a huge portion of Muslim thought.

 

[linwood]

Who cares?

Let us get away from the BS. ok? Pictures mean what?

This cartoon is entirely relevant.

I have seen for the past 10 years the most horrendous anti jewish anti-american anti-western cartoons roll out of the Muslim world on a daily basis.

Cartoons to make what was published in Europe recently look like childrens stories.

This cartoon is entirely relevant as it points out the hypocrisy within the Muslim world.