Catholic Vatican banning all Catholics from becoming Freemasons is now confirmed.

[Estro Felino]

So in your opinion, being a Mason would be a mortal sin?

If there is a lodge that conspires against the State in order to enrich the banking and financial élites at cost of people's poverty, yes, that's a sin.

But I do know that there are lodges that do good to commoners, so...

 

[Estro Felino]

That reminds me of 2015.

Italian Catholic Church scrambles to explain role in lavish Mafia boss funeral

Italy reacted with disgust last week to the lavish funeral procession held for alleged Mafia boss Vittorio Casamonica, including a gilded horse-drawn carriage procession.

www.ncronline.org

I'm sure they still do it.

That was in Rome.
In Sicily the mafia boss Messina Denaro was denied Catholic funeral

Matteo Messina Denaro, niente funerale religioso. Sarà seppellito vicino al padre

È cominciato l’iter burocratico per trasferimento della salma a Castelvetrano. Prima, però, il corpo dovrà essere sottoposto ad autopsia

www.vanityfair.it

 

[SalixIncendium]

If there is a lodge that conspires against the State in order to enrich the banking and financial élites at cost of people's poverty, yes, that's a sin that leads them to Inferno.
Among the greedy.

But I do know that there are lodges that do good to commoners, so...

I think it would be considered a veinal sin that would be on the same level as intentionally avoiding attending Mass or eating whatever you want to during Lent. Both are willfully going against the Church's decree.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think it would be considered a venial sin that would be on the same level as intentionally avoiding attending Mass or eating whatever you want to during Lent.

Venial sins are related to lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, envy, pride, wrath.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Venial sins are related to lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, envy, pride, wrath.

Deadly sins are murder, fraud, treason. So, if they defraud the community to get richer and richer, that's not a venial sin.

I don't understand why we're assuming that being a Mason means you defraud your community.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't understand why we're assuming that being a Mason means you defraud your community.

I said "If".
In post #41.

 

[Stevicus]

When I was younger I used to erroneously think the Knights of Columbus were a branch of the KKK because of the designation of "Knights " was being used.

I was familiar with the Knights of Columbus before I even heard of the KKK.

 

[Stevicus]

Interesting.
I didn't know such thing existed.
Nevertheless, if it a religious associations that help non-Catholics too, well, I think it's good.
The context of discrimination against Italians and Catholics is not present any more (or at least I hope).

But that's not even comparable to Freemasonry, because goals in Freemasonry are about economics and politics. That is, how to influence economics and politics through non-transparent and secret procedures.

My older brother joined the Freemasons, and I even visited his Masonic Lodge once. It was the same Masonic Lodge where John Wayne was inducted as a Freemason. My brother was trying to move up in business and he thought that joining the Masons would be advantageous in that regard and open up opportunities. He never mentioned much about their politics.

But as with any organization, there's the ordinary membership - the rank and file, and then there's the top level leadership which is where some of the attention might be placed. I suppose everyone has their own particular views and opinions on economics and politics, and if someone is in a position to influence others towards certain economic and/or political goals, then they might be inclined to use that influence. I would presume this to be true for the Pope, the leaders of the Masonic Lodge, or any political party or even social and civic organizations. Some organizations might make a conscious choice to avoid politics and present themselves as apolitical - even to the point of making it part of their bylaws. There are often good reasons for an organization to do so, although in practice, "apolitical" generally means they don't care if one is a Democrat or a Republican.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I was familiar with the Knights of Columbus before I even heard of the KKK.

I was never Catholic so I never knew any intimates about the Knights of Columbus as an organization.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I said "If".
In post #41.

I understand that. I'm still confused as to why. Is this a common practice with Freemasons?

 

[JustGeorge]

I think the point is the Masons have sort of Deist initiation ritual, which the church considers incompatible with its doctrine.

The only thing I saw that had any merit to bar a Catholic from becoming a Freemason was the taking of oaths...

Otherwise, its pretty general. Bringing in atheists is generally a no-no, but there's details in the initiation ritual on why it is so. I hear the French lodges have adjusted to make it workable, however.

But it's unenforceable of course, since Masons are not supposed to tell people they are Masons.

Its fine here.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Its fine here.

That's because...

 

[Stevicus]

I was never Catholic so I never knew any intimates about the Knights of Columbus as an organization.

I just remember it early on from my Little League days, when various sponsoring organizations would have their signs up on the outfield fence or on Little League team uniforms. I'd also notice it when traveling, usually when you'd see a sign entering a town, there would usually be a cluster of smaller signs with a bunch of organizations like that.

 

[Estro Felino]

My older brother joined the Freemasons, and I even visited his Masonic Lodge once. It was the same Masonic Lodge where John Wayne was inducted as a Freemason. My brother was trying to move up in business and he thought that joining the Masons would be advantageous in that regard and open up opportunities. He never mentioned much about their politics.

But as with any organization, there's the ordinary membership - the rank and file, and then there's the top level leadership which is where some of the attention might be placed. I suppose everyone has their own particular views and opinions on economics and politics, and if someone is in a position to influence others towards certain economic and/or political goals, then they might be inclined to use that influence. I would presume this to be true for the Pope, the leaders of the Masonic Lodge, or any political party or even social and civic organizations. Some organizations might make a conscious choice to avoid politics and present themselves as apolitical - even to the point of making it part of their bylaws. There are often good reasons for an organization to do so, although in practice, "apolitical" generally means they don't care if one is a Democrat or a Republican.

The Church is not a dictatorial entity.
I mean...there are countless Freemasons in Italy who go to church regularly.
The Church would never stop them from keeping doing it.

The Church has a stance. The values of Freemasonry are incompatible with Christ's teachings.

The Catholics will decide accordingly. There is free will. Freedom of conscience.

 

[Estro Felino]

I understand that. I'm still confused as to why. Is this a common practice with Freemasons?

I am shocked that a Freemason wants to go to church. To a Catholic church.
Why?

If Freemasonry makes them happy and spiritually satisfied, why do they want to attend a place where Christian values are taught?

 

[SalixIncendium]

I am shocked that a Freemason wants to go to church. To a Catholic church.
Why?

If Freemasonry makes them happy and spiritually satisfied, why do they want to attend a place where Christian values are taught?

Not what we were talking about. I was asking if it's a common practice for Freemasons to defraud their communities. Otherwise, I'm not sure why you brought it up when we were discussing if being a Freemason would be a venial or mortal sin.

 

[Estro Felino]

Not what we were talking about. I was asking if it's a common practice for Freemasons to defraud their communities. Otherwise, I'm not sure why you brought it up when we were discussing if being a Freemason would be a venial or mortal sin.

Because unfortunately Freemasonry in Italy has a bad reputation because of this:

Propaganda Due - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And by the way, secret associations are forbidden here.

 

[JustGeorge]

I am shocked that a Freemason wants to go to church. To a Catholic church.
Why?

If Freemasonry makes them happy and spiritually satisfied, why do they want to attend a place where Christian values are taught?

Freemasonry is not intended to replace religion. It encourages a person to live a moral life regardless of their religious background(and to participate more fully in religious life if they feel so called).

 

[Estro Felino]

Freemasonry is not intended to replace religion. It encourages a person to live a moral life regardless of their religious background(and to participate more fully in religious life if they feel so called).

According to Freemasonry, are Freemasons more important than non-Freemasons?
In terms of loyalty?

 

[JustGeorge]

According to Freemasonry, are Freemasons more important than non-Freemasons?
In terms of loyalty?

No. Family and other commitments(friends, workers, etc) always come first.