Catholicism & Christianity

[Katzpur]

The medical records of all US Citizens are either in the hospital, the pediatrician`s office, the family physician`s office, the Internist`s office, the surgeon`s office, the obstetrician & gynecologist`s office, etc.

That is simply not the case. I have never once been asked my religion in a medical setting except when I was hospitalized. And when my kids were little and I took them to the pediatrician, I am 100% positive I was never asked their religion. If a person goes to a hospital, the admission forms ask for religion, but that would be a completely unreliable way of determining church membership when only a relatively small percentage of the population is hospitalized each year.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That is simply not the case. I have never once been asked my religion in a medical setting except when I was hospitalized. And when my kids were little and I took them to the pediatrician, I am 100% positive I was never asked their religion. If a person goes to a hospital, the admission forms ask for religion, but that would be a completely unreliable way of determining church membership when only a relatively small percentage of the population is hospitalized each year.

Heh - a strange thought just popped into my head: I wonder whether it would be a biased sample. Maybe some denominations are more accident-prone than others.

 

[Villager]

Protestants have no concept of kairotic time

They certainly do. They just don't apply it indiscriminately, as suits their own pre-conceptions or political aims, and certainly not in a way that makes the Bible disagree with itself.

But this is off topic, because there is nothing that Catholics can say that will persuade Protestants to accept them. Even if the theology agreed, there would be other intractable obstacles.

 

[Kathryn]

They certainly do. They just don't apply it indiscriminately, as suits their own pre-conceptions or political aims, and certainly not in a way that makes the Bible disagree with itself.

But this is off topic, because there is nothing that Catholics can say that will persuade Protestants to accept them. Even if the theology agreed, there would be other intractable obstacles.

Oh brother, speak for yourself.

I know many Protestants and Catholics who are members of ecumenical projects and groups who respect each others' beliefs and who recognize that there is more common than uncommon ground between them.

 

[Katzpur]

According to www.census.gov, "Public Law 94-521 prohibits us from asking a question on religious affiliation on a mandatory basis; therefore, the Bureau of the Census is not the source for information on religion."

 

[Tarheeler]

Maybe it's in the U.S. census, but I sure can't remember seeing it.
...

Nope. Neither the US Census questions or the much longer American Community Survey have a place for religion.

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downloads/questionnaires/2011/Quest11.pdf
History: 2010

 

[Astounded]

They certainly do. They just don't apply it indiscriminately, as suits their own pre-conceptions or political aims, and certainly not in a way that makes the Bible disagree with itself.

But this is off topic, because there is nothing that Catholics can say that will persuade Protestants to accept them. Even if the theology agreed, there would be other intractable obstacles.

To Protestants the sacrifice is 'finished.' Your theology is stuck in chronological time. God is not. Your 'god' is limited not infinite.

 

[Katzpur]

Heh - a strange thought just popped into my head: I wonder whether it would be a biased sample. Maybe some denominations are more accident-prone than others.

Actually, that's not such a strange thought after all. A 25-year study at ULCA, which ended a few years back, showed that actively-practicing LDS Church members in California had considerably longer life-expectancies than the average population -- more than 5 years longer for women and nearly 10 years longer for men. It would follow that they're probably not in the hospital as often as the general population.

 

[Villager]

Oh brother, speak for yourself.

I speak for no-one. I write about real Protestants, as indicated- who are never going to accept Catholicism. They are the people who count in this particular thread, because the words and actions of others claiming to be Protestant are meaningless.

I know many Protestants and Catholics who are members of ecumenical projects

You don't know any real Protestants who are members of ecumenical projects that involve Catholics.

A real Protestant is one who believes in sola fide. The RCC condemns sola fide as anathema. All Protestant denominations state sola fide in their defining formulae. There are members of those denominations who, even so, show discomfort at the Protestant label. That is their problem, not the problem of real Protestants.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Actually, that's not such a strange thought after all. A 25-year study at ULCA, which ended a few years back, showed that actively-practicing LDS Church members in California had considerably longer life-expectancies than the average population -- more than 5 years longer for women and nearly 10 years longer for men. It would follow that they're probably not in the hospital as often as the general population.

Or maybe they're in hospital more often, if the reason for the difference is that Mormons have better access to health care than the general average.

In any case, I think we agree that religious declarations on hospital forms are a poor measure of the number of religious adherents.

 

[Villager]

To Protestants the sacrifice is 'finished.'

As it is in the Bible, oddly enough. Past tense, in any language.

And like the reputation of the RCC in the eyes of Christians. Every evangelical fellowship seems to contain at least one ex-Catholic who did not know about the history of the RCC until an outsider informed them.

So tense doesn't matter too much, does it. It's truly a forlorn hope. There's more hope of communists agreeing with capitalists than Catholics agreeing with Protestants.

 

[Katzpur]

A real Protestant is one who believes in sola fide. The RCC condemns sola fide as anathema. All Protestant denominations state sola fide in their defining formulae. There are members of those denominations who, even so, show discomfort at the Protestant label. That is their problem, not the problem of real Protestants.

Reminds me of the wisdom of Emo Phillips:

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?" He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?" He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

 

[Villager]

Reminds me of the wisdom of Emo Phillips:

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?" He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?" He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

A good joke, but not good theology.

Protestants, aka evangelicals, aka Christians, do not recognise denominations as of any spiritual significance (though they may make practical use of them).

 

[Katzpur]

A good joke, but not good theology.

I wasn't trying for good theology. If I had been, I wouldn't have used Protestantism at all.

Protestants, aka evangelicals, aka Christians, do not recognise denominations as of any spiritual significance (though they may make practical use of them).

Protestants, aka evangelicals, aka Christians. Yeah, and undoubtedly the only "real" Christians.

 

[Villager]

I wasn't trying for good theology. If I had been, I wouldn't have used Protestantism at all.

Now that really is a joke.

Protestants, aka evangelicals, aka Christians. Yeah, and undoubtedly the only "real" Christians.

Like Catholics, Mormons, JWs, etc. Everyone has claimed to be the exclusive church at some time. It's only evangelicals that the public believe, and can keep saying it.

 

[Katzpur]

Now that really is a joke.

Actually, I was being totally serious.

It's only evangelicals that the public believe, and can keep saying it.

Oh, I got it! "Evangelicals" aka "the public."

 

[Villager]

Actually, I was being totally serious.

I know.

 

[cablescavenger]

Reminds me of the wisdom of Emo Phillips:

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?" He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?" He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

That tickled me :bow:

 

[sojourner]

Not sure.

But show me another Christian group with the same rate of growth in CONVERTS each year.

Assembly of God, Mormons, and Catholics are fastest growing Christian groups. And the number of people converting to Catholicism each year outpaces the number of people converting to AoG and Mormonism.

What I haven't heard anyone talking about here is the "back door." Sure, we can count the number of people joining -- how many are paying attention to how many are leaving?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What I haven't heard anyone talking about here is the "back door." Sure, we can count the number of people joining -- how many are paying attention to how many are leaving?

Ahem:

I think using the denominations' own membership records is problematic, because I think most denominations do a much worse job at tracking people who leave than they do tracking people who come in, so, IMO, those records give an incomplete picture of what's actually going on.