Challenge for those that believe in billions of years for the age of things. Give anything that is more than 6000 years old. NO ASSUMPTIONS ALLOWED.

[Trailblazer]

You are probably right. I was having some fun since that was one of the "prophecies" that somehow @ratiocinator fulfilled.

I was glad to see that @ratiocinator is back. The more atheists we have here the more fun we can have.

 

[John53]

Of course James Webb is not mentioned by name.

So my suspicions are right, you made it up.

Why should anyone believe anything you post?

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, not at 'some point in time." At a certain point in time, at the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Daniel Chapter 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13 But go thou thy way till the end be; for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Note that Dan 12:13 says "at the end of the days.” This chapter is about what will happen at the time of the end of an age, when Christ returns.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Baha’is believe that the 2,300 years came in 1844 and the book was unsealed by Baha’u’llah. That math is explained in Some Answered Questions, 10: TRADITIONAL PROOFS EXEMPLIFIED FROM THE BOOK OF DANIEL

Unsealing the Book means we can now understand what much of the Bible means that could never be understood before by reading the Baha’i Writings, thus fulfilling the prophecy in Daniel 12:4 that knowledge shall be increased. It also means that scientific and all other kinds of knowledge will be increased.

That is a failed prophecy. The reason why is that it is overly vague. It does not say how much knowledge will be increased. It definitely does not say or even imply that knowledge will be "greatly increased". And here is why it fails. There has been a steady increase in knowledge ever since man learned how to write. @SavedByTheLord kept stating that the prophecies were very accurate, and that one clearly is not, if one wants to call it a prophecy.

The reason that Saved does not like giving a specific prophecy ever is because he can always be shown to be wrong when he does that.

 

[YoursTrue]

The story is just that man made - created. But I comprehend the story when observed as a metaphor. I have no problem with the beauty of many theological stories having far greater merit than observable at face value (as literally occurring). I am not a type of person that accepts magic or an over-seeing g-d telling people what to write but I trust that people can write what they feel even if they do not consider causal explanation.



A rib does not regenerate itself (outside of the body)...... but the comprehension of the initial life giving a portion of itself to enable the next generation had merit even back then. Combine that with the story being written as a metaphor can and does give the dialogue credibility.

I enjoy defending many stories of the Torah with rational explanation as it then supports both the credibility and reason to continue learning the wisdom. For example: an old wisdom that I keep is: 'find the lesson in a train wreck'

Who knew 2500 year ago that many of the lessons could still be good throughout the generations? Conscious life!

I'm not saying anything much about it except that how did Moses know at the time that Eve was created from Adam's rib and that a rib has a fantastic property to regenerate itself? She was obviously closely biologically of him. But the point is that a rib is the part of a body that can grow back. I doubt doubt doubt that men knew this thousands of years ago. And -- since it is "miracle" of sorts that God made Eve from Adam's rib, and I no longer accept the theory of evolution as explained by scientists, metaphor or no metaphor, it is too close to biological knowledge they did not have back then to overlook. Metaphor or not, Moses wasn't that dumb that he just put in that she came from Adam's rib. Can I explain it beyond that? No. You guessed it. Metaphor or not, it makes astoundingly good current scientific sense that the rib can grow back. I doubt that Moses knew that of any scientific data back then.

 

[Bthoth]

I'm not saying anything much about it except that how did Moses know at the time

Moses was born and raised in egypt. He per torah lived in the house of pharaoh.
That would mean 2 things:
a.... his knowledge was learned from the libraries of egypt
b..... that talking to god was as easy as coming home for dinner conversations (with pharaoh, god of the time).

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not saying anything much about it except that how did Moses know at the time that Eve was created from Adam's rib and that a rib has a fantastic property to regenerate itself? She was obviously closely biologically of him. But the point is that a rib is the part of a body that can grow back. I doubt doubt doubt that men knew this thousands of years ago. And -- since it is "miracle" of sorts that God made Eve from Adam's rib, and I no longer accept the theory of evolution as explained by scientists, metaphor or no metaphor, it is too close to biological knowledge they did not have back then to overlook. Metaphor or not, Moses wasn't that dumb that he just put in that she came from Adam's rib. Can I explain it beyond that? No. You guessed it. Metaphor or not, it makes astoundingly good current scientific sense that the rib can grow back. I doubt that Moses knew that of any scientific data back then.

Okay, so you don't accept reality. Then why on Earth would you accept the fairy tales from the Bible? It has far less evidence for it and far more against it. You fixate on one minor point that may be correct. When I look up ribs I see contradicting accounts. According to one site that ability for ribs to regenerate is no different than that of other bones. In other words, other bones, under the same conditions will regenerate too. I have also read if the entire rib is gone, it is gone. So did God just take most of Adams rib in the fairy tale?

 

[YoursTrue]

Moses was born and raised in egypt. He per torah lived in the house of pharaoh.
That would mean 2 things:
a.... his knowledge was learned from the libraries of egypt
b..... that talking to god was as easy as coming home for dinner conversations (with pharaoh, god of the time).

I can't say for sure that Moses had dinner with Pharaoh, but I know what you mean. And I am quite certain that Moses learned the knowledge of Egyptians at that time. Also his mother would have taught him more about "his" people as time went on. So Moses knew two paths. And had a time getting used to his calling.

 

[Bthoth]

I can't say for sure that Moses had dinner with Pharaoh, but I know what you mean. And I am quite certain that Moses learned the knowledge of Egyptians at that time. Also his mother would have taught him more about "his" people as time went on. So Moses knew two paths. And had a time getting used to his calling.

Moses was an infant when picked up by the daughter of pharaoh. Ever wonder how she knew he was not a child of egypt just by opening up the wrappings?

 

[Trailblazer]

That is a failed prophecy. The reason why is that it is overly vague. It does not say how much knowledge will be increased. It definitely does not say or even imply that knowledge will be "greatly increased". And here is why it fails. There has been a steady increase in knowledge ever since man learned how to write. @SavedByTheLord kept stating that the prophecies were very accurate, and that one clearly is not, if one wants to call it a prophecy.

The reason that Saved does not like giving a specific prophecy ever is because he can always be shown to be wrong when he does that.

If by failed you mean it is not specific enough for you to know 'exactly' what it is referring to then most if not all Bible prophecies are failed prophecies...

I do not consider a prophecy to have failed unless it was not fulfilled. The only way one can know if a prophecy was fulfilled is by comparing what it says to what has actually happened. Sure, there is a lot of interpretation involved. For example, regarding in Daniel 12:4, one has to know what kind of knowledge the verse is referring to and how much that knowledge was increased in order to know if the prophecy was fulfilled.

Yes, there has been a steady increase in knowledge ever since man learned how to write, but there has been an exponential increase in knowledge since the mid 19th century.

We live in the most remarkable of times. The transformation of the material conditions of humanity has a cause. Do we really believe that the human beings who came before us were incapable of what we see in the world today? Great civilizations have come before in history – yet none of them broke out of the same reality that has existed since the dawn of agriculture.​

​

It is only in this time that humanity has passed into an entirely new reality. It has a cause. A cause larger than humanity itself.​

​

In 1844, in Shiraz, the Bab, Baha’u’llah’s immediate forerunner, spoke these words:​

​

The secret of the Day that is to come is now concealed. It can neither be divulged nor estimated. The newly born babe of that Day excels the wisest and most venerable men of this time, and the lowliest and most unlearned of that period shall surpass in understanding the most erudite and accomplished divines of this age.[1]​

​

A short time before, on the other side of the planet on 24 May 1844, within a day of the Bab’s declaration of his mission, Samuel Morse, the inventor of the telegraph sent its first message from Washington to Baltimore. The message read as follows: What hath God Wrought? , citing a passage from the Bible.​

​

What hath God Wrought? 24 May 1844 ​

 

[YoursTrue]

Circa now is the last days.
About 6000 years since the 6 day creation and 2000 years since the resurrection of Christ

Please -- even though I agree with you on many points regarding the impossibility of evolution as purported by many--I would like to know the idea you speak about regarding the 6 day creation. Then of course there was a 7th day following the six days as proclaimed in the Genesis account. So do you believe the next 24 hour day came after the 6 days, and do you believe the first 6 days were 24 hours each? Put another way, would you say day one of creation begins the 6000 years or are those 6000 some odd years within the last day as written of creation?

 

[YoursTrue]

Moses was an infant when picked up by the daughter of pharaoh. Ever wonder how she knew he was not a child of egypt just by opening up the wrappings?

She knew the decree set by Pharaoh to kill the male children. And that the male offspring of Abraham were to be circumcized. Genesis 17:11 - This is my covenant between me and you, that you and your offspring after you will keep: Every male among you must get circumcised. What do you think?

 

[blü 2]

But those words addressing motivation were different. They suggest that he thought about why he's here, and that connects to posts asking him about that. There has been so little of that that its appearance is striking.

The leopard now has stripes? It'll be interesting to see, but I'm not holding my breath,

 

[Bthoth]

She knew the decree set by Pharaoh to kill the male children. And that the male offspring of Abraham were to be circumcized. Genesis 17:11 - This is my covenant between me and you, that you and your offspring after you will keep: Every male among you must get circumcised. What do you think?

Yes at that time period egypt required circumcision by god (pharoah) and Moses was perhaps the first male child that she ever saw that was NOT circumcised

Moses was not circumcised until after being married

Here is a published paper.

https://jbqnew.jewishbible.org/assets/Uploads/441/JBQ_441_newmancircumcise.pdf

"""""The practice was . . . prevalent in Egypt" we are told. 2 Jeremiah states: Lo, days are coming – declares the Lord – when I will take note of everyone circumcised in the foreskin; of Egypt, Judah, Edom, the Ammonites, Moab (Jer. 9:24-25). Note that the Egyptians appear first in this list. Similarly, when Ezekiel speaks against Pharaoh, he tells of his bitter end: And you too shall be brought down . . . to the lowest part of the netherworld; you shall lie among the uncircumcised (Ezek. 31:18). This indicates that not being circum- WHY MOSES DID NOT CIRCUMCISE HIS SON Vol. 44, No. 1, 2016 51 cised was, for the Egyptians, a disgrace.3 Egyptian circumcision dates back to at least 2400 BCE and was usually confined to the priesthood or the royal family.4 Its association with the Egyptians was also noted by Herodotus, who mentions "the obvious antiquity of the custom in Egypt" and the fact that "other peoples learned the practice through their contact with Egypt" (Historiae, 2:104). Accordingly, there is a strong connection between Egypt and circumcision.5 We can now understand why Moses would decide not to circumcise his son. When he fled to Midian, Moses repudiated his Egyptian upbringing. It is reasonable to assume that Moses consciously rejected circumcision as an ancient Egyptian rite, the first of the Egyptians’ practices which the Israelites would have to renounce

 

[Subduction Zone]

If by failed you mean it is not specific enough for you to know 'exactly' what it is referring to then most if not all Bible prophecies are failed prophecies...

Yes, practically all Bible prophecies are failed prophecies because they have multiple interpretations. How could a "perfect God" write such bad prophecies. The ones that are very clear, such as the Tyre prophecy, tend to fail very badly.

I do not consider a prophecy to have failed unless it was not fulfilled. The only way one can know if a prophecy was fulfilled is by comparing what it says to what has actually happened. Sure, there is a lot of interpretation involved. For example, regarding in Daniel 12:4, one has to know what kind of knowledge the verse is referring to and how much that knowledge was increased in order to know if the prophecy was fulfilled.

Yes, there has been a steady increase in knowledge ever since man learned how to write, but there has been an exponential increase in knowledge since the mid 19th century.

We live in the most remarkable of times. The transformation of the material conditions of humanity has a cause. Do we really believe that the human beings who came before us were incapable of what we see in the world today? Great civilizations have come before in history – yet none of them broke out of the same reality that has existed since the dawn of agriculture.​

​

It is only in this time that humanity has passed into an entirely new reality. It has a cause. A cause larger than humanity itself.​

​

In 1844, in Shiraz, the Bab, Baha’u’llah’s immediate forerunner, spoke these words:​

​

The secret of the Day that is to come is now concealed. It can neither be divulged nor estimated. The newly born babe of that Day excels the wisest and most venerable men of this time, and the lowliest and most unlearned of that period shall surpass in understanding the most erudite and accomplished divines of this age.[1]​

​

A short time before, on the other side of the planet on 24 May 1844, within a day of the Bab’s declaration of his mission, Samuel Morse, the inventor of the telegraph sent its first message from Washington to Baltimore. The message read as follows: What hath God Wrought? , citing a passage from the Bible.​

​

What hath God Wrought? 24 May 1844​

And I have to disagree with that since a vague prophecy causes schisms in religions. It has even lead to wars. A vague prophecy with more than one interpretation is no different than what Nostradamus did, But I have a feeling that he knew what he was doing. Write a vague enough prophecy about famous people and leaders and sooner or later it will be "fulfilled" often more than once.

 

[John53]

Yes, practically all Bible prophecies are failed prophecies because they have multiple interpretations. How could a "perfect God" write such bad prophecies. The ones that are very clear, such as the Tyre prophecy, tend to fail very badly.

And I have to disagree with that since a vague prophecy causes schisms in religions. It has even lead to wars. A vague prophecy with more than one interpretation is no different than what Nostradamus did, But I have a feeling that he knew what he was doing. Write a vague enough prophecy about famous people and leaders and sooner or later it will be "fulfilled" often more than once.

Prophecy is always vague. It's the only way it can work.

I'm getting a J or M name. I feel it's an older person who has passed over. I'm feeling they had back or leg problems and found it difficult to move around. Not prophecy but the same principle.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes at that time period egypt required circumcision by god (pharoah) and Moses was perhaps the first male child that she ever saw that was NOT circumcised

Moses was not circumcised until after being married

Here is a published paper.

https://jbqnew.jewishbible.org/assets/Uploads/441/JBQ_441_newmancircumcise.pdf

"""""The practice was . . . prevalent in Egypt" we are told. 2 Jeremiah states: Lo, days are coming – declares the Lord – when I will take note of everyone circumcised in the foreskin; of Egypt, Judah, Edom, the Ammonites, Moab (Jer. 9:24-25). Note that the Egyptians appear first in this list. Similarly, when Ezekiel speaks against Pharaoh, he tells of his bitter end: And you too shall be brought down . . . to the lowest part of the netherworld; you shall lie among the uncircumcised (Ezek. 31:18). This indicates that not being circum- WHY MOSES DID NOT CIRCUMCISE HIS SON Vol. 44, No. 1, 2016 51 cised was, for the Egyptians, a disgrace.3 Egyptian circumcision dates back to at least 2400 BCE and was usually confined to the priesthood or the royal family.4 Its association with the Egyptians was also noted by Herodotus, who mentions "the obvious antiquity of the custom in Egypt" and the fact that "other peoples learned the practice through their contact with Egypt" (Historiae, 2:104). Accordingly, there is a strong connection between Egypt and circumcision.5 We can now understand why Moses would decide not to circumcise his son. When he fled to Midian, Moses repudiated his Egyptian upbringing. It is reasonable to assume that Moses consciously rejected circumcision as an ancient Egyptian rite, the first of the Egyptians’ practices which the Israelites would have to renounce

Thanks, very interesting.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Prophecy is always vague. It's the only way it can work.

I'm getting a J or M name. I feel it's an older person who has passed over. I'm feeling they had back or leg problems and found it difficult to move around. Not prophecy but the same principle.

Is it my uncle Freddie?

 

[John53]

Is it my uncle Freddie?

For $500 an hour I can tell you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Prophecy is always vague. It's the only way it can work.

I'm getting a J or M name. I feel it's an older person who has passed over. I'm feeling they had back or leg problems and found it difficult to move around. Not prophecy but the same principle.

And the same people that get taking in by cold reading are the same people that fall for biblical prophecies.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

For $500 an hour I can tell you.

Go ahead and tell me. I predict that I will pay you.