Challenge: I'm willing to convert if.......

[PearlSeeker]

(Your reply wasn't that I am totally incoherent with a possible serious mental disorder and need to see a doctor).

Pattern recognition is a usually a normal cognitive process but apophenia can be an early stage of mental illness:

Apophenia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Like you could notice spears and cattle are also speaking first column alignment:
"Rebuke the company of spearmen, the multitude of the bulls, with the calves of the people, till every one submit himself with pieces of silver: scatter thou the people that delight in war". Psalm

Correction: silver is in the second column.

Is that clear?

Clear. So what? What's the point?

 

[sayak83]

It's like a Zodiac wheel language. Each of the twelve positions have a variety of different words/symbols assigned to them.

Miracles and prophecies are the positioning of the words/symbols. It is why one word jumps to a seemingly unrelated word within a sentence.

I can simplify what I showed you.
Look at this:

North - West - East
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf

Can you now see and understand what I am talking about? With three words in each layer, an overlap can be seen between the layers relevant to the shared position. The wolf is seen with the lamb, and the Lion with the calf, etc.

I will put it another way. Maybe you can comprehend this way. Each layer has three words that represent different levels of height.

Here is a layer of three words of different heights: Valley - Hill - Mountain
Here is another layer of three words of different heights: Sea - River - Stream

Now I will show you it is exactly the same concept with this layer of three words: Corn - Oil - Wine

Because the valley is covered in corn:
"The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing". Psalm.

Because the river is as oil:
"Then will I make their waters deep, and cause their rivers to run like oil, saith the Lord God". Ezekiel.

Because the mountain is as wine:
"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt". Amos.


Listen carefully to the three words corn, oil, and wine.
"And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel". Hosea.

Can you hear the corn, oil, and wine as in three different positions of heights?

Valley - Hill - Mountain
Sea - River - Stream
Corn - Oil - Wine

Look above. You can clearly see the corn in the valley, the river as oil, and the wine of the mountain.

Are you able to comprehend miracles and prophecies as symbol alignments according to their specific positions? Its a scientific fact.

Whatever this nonsense is, it's certainly not a scientific fact.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Pattern recognition is a usually a normal cognitive process but apophenia can be an early stage of mental illness:

I am aware of the possibility. So it is helpful to point out possible flaws in what I am saying. Thank you.

Correction: silver is in the second column.

Nice to see you are listening. Correct. Silver is second column. Silver is different than Spear and Cattle which are as Brass in first column.

Like here you can see Cattle instead of Brass:
"And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold". Genesis.

And here the Spear is as Brass:
"And Ishbibenob, which was of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose spear weighed three hundred shekels of brass in weight, he being girded with a new sword, thought to have slain David". Samuel

Silver is in a different position than Brass.

Like the silver is as the dust position:
"Though he heap up silver as the dust, and prepare raiment as the clay". Job

Like the sword is also as dust:
Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow. Isaiah.


Like this saying bow in the wilderness, or lick the dust. Which is saying the same thing because the wilderness is as dust.
They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust. Psalm

And like I mentioned before about the goat in the wilderness, and the sword of the wilderness:

Can see the Goat in the Wilderness:
And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. Leviticus

Can see the sword of the wilderness:
"We gat our bread with the peril of our lives because of the sword of the wilderness". Lamentations.


So according to the Exodus layer. The wilderness position is verified as being in the second column alignment of words as with the olive oil tree, the goat, and the sword:

So Cattle and Spear is as Brass. While Silver is as Goat and Sword. Different animal, different weapon.

For cattle to get silver they would have to move position. Like going from desert to wilderness.

Desert - Wilderness - Mountain
Brass - Silver - Gold
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Spear - Sword - Bow
Straw - Dust - Stubble

Does this help with clarifying your observation?

Clear. So what? What's the point?

With so many words overlapping each other in position alignments, it seems that the positions are the point.

 

[Muffled]

Anyone can prove that the miracles of any kind in the major religious texts, actually happened.

Yes, that's right I am happy to become a Christian or a Muslim.

However, if these miracles cannot be proven, then you must reflect on your belief and the possibility that you believe in what you do, because of your upbringing.

Do not be afraid.

I believe that means you are destined for hell.

 

[Muffled]

Yes you are right, I cannot put faith into something without some sort of proof.

Especially a book that was written 2000 years a go.

I don't believe the time period in which words are written has anything to do with their validity.

 

[Muffled]

I was healed of asthma in the hospital by Jesus Christ. The doctors were unable to break the spasm, but when a pastor asked Jesus to heal me, the spasm instantly broke and I immediately became a Christian. (I was a confirmed atheist right up to that moment.)

I had my Covid19 symptoms completely disappear the day after prayer in Mar 2020. I can't say for sure it was a miracle but it did appear to be supernatural.

 

[McBell]

A layer reference.

Maybe you could try to follow the Exodus layer of words:

Desert - Wilderness - Mountain

"For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount". Exodus.


Like lets take a look according to the wilderness that is mentioned 293 times in Bible.

Can see the Oil tree is planted in the Wilderness:
"I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the ****tah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together". Isaiah.

Can see the Goat in the Wilderness:
And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. Leviticus

Can see the sword of the wilderness:
"We gat our bread with the peril of our lives because of the sword of the wilderness". Lamentations.


So according to the Exodus layer. The wilderness position is verified as being in the second column alignment of words as with the olive oil tree, the goat, and the sword:

Desert - Wilderness - Mountain

Brass - Silver - Gold
Red - Purple - Blue
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine
Sea - River - Stream
Valley - Hill - Mountain

Is that any easier for you to follow?

I did not say I did not follow it.
I said that Shrek's is easier to follow.

 

[PearlSeeker]

With so many words overlapping each other in position alignments, it seems that the positions are the point.

Sorry, I don't get your point.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Anyone can prove that the miracles of any kind in the major religious texts, actually happened.

Yes, that's right I am happy to become a Christian or a Muslim.

However, if these miracles cannot be proven, then you must reflect on your belief and the possibility that you believe in what you do, because of your upbringing.

Do not be afraid.

The only real miracle is that people became transformed. They became selfless and sacrificed their lives to help and serve others. and there are many people who have been transformed . This miracle is proven beyond any doubt.

 

[alf]

Anyone can prove that the miracles of any kind in the major religious texts, actually happened.

Yes, that's right I am happy to become a Christian or a Muslim.

However, if these miracles cannot be proven, then you must reflect on your belief and the possibility that you believe in what you do, because of your upbringing.

Do not be afraid.

You have two dominions that are abominable to God.
You cannot ask for eyes from the blind.

Ezekiel 8​

He said, “Mortal man, break through the wall here.” I broke through it and found a door.
9 He told me, “Go in and look at the evil, disgusting things they are doing there.” 10 So I went in and looked. The walls were covered with drawings of snakes and other unclean animals, and of the other things which the Israelites were worshiping.
11 Seventy Israelite leaders were there, including Jaazaniah son of Shaphan. Each one was holding an incense burner, and smoke was rising from the incense.
12 God asked me, “Mortal man, do you see what the Israelite leaders are doing in secret? They are all worshiping in a room full of images. Their excuse is: ‘The Lord doesn't see us! He has abandoned the country.’”
13 Then the Lord said to me, “You are going to see them do even more disgusting things than that.”
14 So he took me to the north gate of the Temple and showed me women weeping over the death of the god Tammuz.

15 He asked, “Mortal man, do you see that? You will see even more disgusting things.”
16 So he took me to the inner courtyard of the Temple. There near the entrance of the sanctuary, between the altar and the porch, were about twenty-five men. They had turned their backs to the sanctuary and were bowing low toward the east, worshiping the rising sun.
17 The Lord said to me, “Mortal man, do you see that? These people of Judah are not satisfied with merely doing all the disgusting things you have seen here and with spreading violence throughout the country. No, they must come and do them right here in the Temple and make me even more angry. Look how they insult me in the most offensive way possible!

18 They will feel all the force of my anger. I will not spare them or show them any mercy. They will shout prayers to me as loud as they can, but I will not listen to them.”

 

[Madsaac]

The only real miracle is that people became transformed. They became selfless and sacrificed their lives to help and serve others. and there are many people who have been transformed . This miracle is proven beyond any doubt.

Yes those things are certainly good things but they aren’t miracles

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Sorry, I don't get your point.

With the overlapping positioning of so many different words, the positions seem to be the point of what is being said.

Correction: silver is in the second column.

I dont know if you understood my explanation of the verse speaking of spear and cattle of the first column movement to silver in the second column, so I will clarify it by repeating it in another way.

The same thing you observed can also be seen in something I said earlier in post 360 when talking about the twelve positions.

In here:

As an example I can show you a prophecy about a miracle. The prophecy of the wolf with the lamb is known as a future magical event when predator and prey will be at peace with each other.


This prophecy:
"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them". Isaiah.


I know the wolf has always been with the lamb. The prophecy was fulfilled the moment it was spoken.

I will show you how it works:

In Ezekiel there is a description of 12 city gates, each is assigned to a different tribe. Three tribes to each direction.


In the easterly direction is Joseph, and Benjamin.
And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan. Ezekiel

Here Benjamin is as wolf:
Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil. Genesis.

Here Joseph is as sheep:
"Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth". Psalm

Therefore the wolf is with the lamb in the east. It is a fact.


In support of this miracle evidence I will show you another part of the same prophecy, the lion with the calf.


Here Reuben as in the place of cattle:
Now the children of Reuben and the children of Gad had a very great multitude of cattle: and when they saw the land of Jazer, and the land of Gilead, that, behold, the place was a place for cattle; Numbers.

Here Judah the lion:
"And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof". Revelation.

Together in the North:
"And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi". Ezekiel.

So according to the twelve gates, the wolf is with the lamb in the east, and the lion is with the calf in the north.

Can you see this miracle?

This is how miracles, and prophecies work. The positioning of words. I can show more examples to confirm it.

Where I said this:

Here Reuben as in the place of cattle:
Now the children of Reuben and the children of Gad had a very great multitude of cattle: and when they saw the land of Jazer, and the land of Gilead, that, behold, the place was a place for cattle; Numbers.

I highlighted Reuben being associated with Cattle, and Judah with Lion, showing they were together as North gates. To show how the Lion with the calf, and the wolf with the lamb prophecy works.

What I didn't explain is Gad who I didn't highlight. Because Gad is not a North Gate with Reuben. Gad is a West Gate.

"At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali". Ezekiel


So Gad is in a place of Cattle with Reuben. But Gads place is not with cattle. Gads place is in the West. Therefore Silver.

North - West - East
Brass - Silver - Gold
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf


Gad is not Cattle. Gad is Leopard.
"Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil". Jeremiah.

The Bible mentions enlarging the tribe of Gad:
"And of Gad he said, Blessed be he that enlargeth Gad: he dwelleth as a lion, and teareth the arm with the crown of the head". Deuteronomy.


So the tribe of Gad is also as movement from Cattle/spear (first column) to Silver (second column).

Does this clarify what you were referring to?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

I did not say I did not follow it.
I said that Shrek's is easier to follow.

And I attempted to make what I am saying easier for you to understand.

So what are you saying. Were you actually able to follow what I had said and comprehended it?
As it seems that you made a comment just because I said the word layers.

 

[IbnUmmah]

Quite a challenge as it is often said 'miracles do not occur in contradiction with nature, they merely happen in contradiction with that which we recognise as nature'. There is a branch of the magical arts very commonly observed called 'illusionism', where the trickster deceives the eye of the observer to believe in his trick. Despite Bill Hicks eulogies God is not the trickster, surely that is the adversary. However God is infinite and absolute in his nature and thus also in his knowledge. Thus miracles adhere to the same inductive logic parsimoniously as illusions, where it is often intellectually, especially in an scientifically blind era to comprehend the mechanism and means of a miracle; if ever, just as the eye is deceived by an illusion, the mind is blind to a miracle. I think they share characteristics which is surely why one of the names of satan is the trickster/deceiver.

If however as per the OP we ARE to consider a miracle to facilitate your conversion and/or reversion then there can surely only be one miracle we all know that is deductively to be discussed; the immaculate conception of Messiach Jeheshuah, the prophet Isa (saw/pbuh).

 

[Madsaac]

Quite a challenge as it is often said 'miracles do not occur in contradiction with nature, they merely happen in contradiction with that which we recognise as nature'. There is a branch of the magical arts very commonly observed called 'illusionism', where the trickster deceives the eye of the observer to believe in his trick. Despite Bill Hicks eulogies God is not the trickster, surely that is the adversary. However God is infinite and absolute in his nature and thus also in his knowledge. Thus miracles adhere to the same inductive logic parsimoniously as illusions, where it is often intellectually, especially in an scientifically blind era to comprehend the mechanism and means of a miracle; if ever, just as the eye is deceived by an illusion, the mind is blind to a miracle. I think they share characteristics which is surely why one of the names of satan is the trickster/deceiver.

If however as per the OP we ARE to consider a miracle to facilitate your conversion and/or reversion then there can surely only be one miracle we all know that is deductively to be discussed; the immaculate conception of Messiach Jeheshuah, the prophet Isa (saw/pbuh).

Thanks for the thoughtful response but my mind is certainly not blind to a miracle. And there is no evidence of immaculate conception, just a story written 2000 years a go

 

[IbnUmmah]

Thanks for the thoughtful response but my mind is certainly not blind to a miracle. And there is no evidence of immaculate conception, just a story written 2000 years a go

Do you accept that Jesus existed at all? Given he doesn't feature in the fossil record, scientifically, thus empirically, given we don't have his bones he is in effect a 'missing link'?

 

[IbnUmmah]

The reason I chose the virgin birth as it is in effect a key, perhaps one of Simon Peter's, to the confusion at his time as to his nature which continues to pervade contemporarily and cause division in the religions pertaining to be ibrahimic; the Levitical Tradition of the Hebrews, that which has come to broadly be known as Xtianity/Paulinism, and Islam with its own traditions and cults. The traditions from Abraham/Ibrahim. The people of the book.

 

[McBell]

And I attempted to make what I am saying easier for you to understand.

So what are you saying. Were you actually able to follow what I had said and comprehended it?
As it seems that you made a comment just because I said the word layers.

It is my opinion that you are trying to hard and are actually making it much more difficult than it needs to be.

Hence my "Shrek's is easier to understand".

 

[Betho_br]

The reason I chose the virgin birth as it is in effect a key, perhaps one of Simon Peter's, to the confusion at his time as to his nature which continues to pervade contemporarily and cause division in the religions pertaining to be ibrahimic; the Levitical Tradition of the Hebrews, that which has come to broadly be known as Xtianity/Paulinism, and Islam with its own traditions and cults. The traditions from Abraham/Ibrahim. The people of the book.

Pliny's letter to Emperor Trajan, being adversaries of Christianity, constitutes authentic evidence that there was a Jesus venerated/worshiped as god (Elohim)/God.

 

[blü 2]

Miracles happen today. I have witnessed them; been involved in their occurrence.

What is the most remarkable miracle you've personally witnessed?