Challenge: I'm willing to convert if.......

[I Am Hugh]

Anyone can prove that the miracles of any kind in the major religious texts, actually happened.

Yes, that's right I am happy to become a Christian or a Muslim.

However, if these miracles cannot be proven, then you must reflect on your belief and the possibility that you believe in what you do, because of your upbringing.

Do not be afraid.

Nonsense. 1) I was raised atheist/irreligious, 2) the miracles in the Bible were parlor tricks for those weak in faith, 3) Christianity has very little to do with their alleged "sacred text", the Bible, 4) you can't prove what you had for lunch or evolution and 5) it isn't the objective of a true believer to prove anything, they operate on faith and their objective is to inform. Seen any of that?

 

[Maninthemiddle]

In the Tipitaka it says people used to live to 80,000 years but then went down to 100 years because of unskillful behavior.
It says lifespan will increase again back to 80,000 years as virtue increases. Do you believe that?

The Buddha said that he was the eldest in the world.

Do you know of the 84,000 teachings of the Buddha?

Why do you believe buddhist texts?

Buddha said "...do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumoured by many, or because it is found written in your religious books, or because it is your teachers that will tell you it is true." This portion underscores the call for individuals to apply critical discernment to the ideas, teachings, and information presented to them, regardless of their source or perceived authority.

The essence of this teaching is to inspire individuals to cultivate wisdom, independent investigation, and a deep understanding born from personal experience. It encourages an approach to knowledge that is grounded in mindful inquiry, rational reflection, and a genuine exploration of one's own direct experiences. It serves as an invitation to engage with the world and knowledge with an open and discerning mind, seeking understanding rather than blind adherence.

This quote reflects the emphasis within Buddhism on wisdom, personal reflection, and the cultivation of discernment as integral components of the path to awakening and liberation from suffering.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Buddha said "...do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumoured by many, or because it is found written in your religious books, or because it is your teachers that will tell you it is true." This portion underscores the call for individuals to apply critical discernment to the ideas, teachings, and information presented to them, regardless of their source or perceived authority.

Thats good advice. You also shouldn't believe anything that you hear because you might not have heard it correctly.

As you will think that you can understand everything you hear only because you will interpret all that you hear into a way that you yourself can understand. That is how misunderstandings happen. If you can listen in multiple ways and always keep an open way then you can reduce the chance of misunderstanding the things you hear. There are different angles to knowledge.

The essence of this teaching is to inspire individuals to cultivate wisdom, independent investigation, and a deep understanding born from personal experience. It encourages an approach to knowledge that is grounded in mindful inquiry, rational reflection, and a genuine exploration of one's own direct experiences. It serves as an invitation to engage with the world and knowledge with an open and discerning mind, seeking understanding rather than blind adherence.

So what can be learned by twisting the words of others into fitting your own agenda?

This quote reflects the emphasis within Buddhism on wisdom, personal reflection, and the cultivation of discernment as integral components of the path to awakening and liberation from suffering.

So do you have a list of things to do? Does your path to awakening have a long list? And has your list always been getting longer?

 

[jimb]

Nonsense. 1) I was raised atheist/irreligious, 2) the miracles in the Bible were parlor tricks for those weak in faith, 3) Christianity has very little to do with their alleged "sacred text", the Bible, 4) you can't prove what you had for lunch or evolution and 5) it isn't the objective of a true believer to prove anything, they operate on faith and their objective is to inform. Seen any of that?

Your clearly don't understand true faith.

Christianity is based on faith (real faith, which is defined as "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for, being convinced of what we do not see.") Hebrews 11:1

Notice the words "being sure" and "being convinced". There is no "belief" or "hope" involved. True faith is knowing with certainty.

 

[Madsaac]

1) I was raised atheist/irreligious

What happened, did you see the 'light' or a miracle of some sort?

2) the miracles in the Bible were parlor tricks for those weak in faith

No, it's for the strong in faith. Because as you say they are tricks, so faith not facts is the only way you can believe

3) Christianity has very little to do with their alleged "sacred text", the Bible

Really? Come on, the Bible has lots to do with Christianity and the so called miracles are what makes it different from millions of other books

4) you can't prove what you had for lunch or evolution

I can but do you really want to go there

5) it isn't the objective of a true believer to prove anything, they operate on faith and their objective is to inform. Seen any of that

If you want me to believe in a religion, the proof is required, otherwise its nothing 'special'. If they/you do operate on faith, then it takes more than faith to inform, ask any scientist.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The function of authentic religion is to create a strong and good human being with good moral value systems, fit to perform his allotted duties in life. This is a miracle in itself.

Yes….”authentic religion.” It really should.

But how many religions have gotten involved with warfare?

Really, some of the bloodiest wars in history have been instigated by religion!

These inauthentic, read counterfeit, religions have not helped to create ‘good human beings with good moral values’. It’s messed humans up.

It has helped devalue human lives.

I think many people see this as hypocrisy. And the result? Membership in quite a few denominations is dwindling.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

If you want me to believe in a religion, the proof is required, otherwise its nothing 'special'.

Instead of looking for proof of a miracle (I mean, what would you look for? I do believe that there is evidence… maybe chariot wheels in the Red Sea?), I think a better way (well, a less energy-consuming way) to find a genuine religion, is looking for what Jesus said: “By their fruits”, and “all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”— Matthew 7:20; John 13:35

He even said to “love your enemy.” (Matthew 5:44) So that would really preclude any Christian killing anyone, wouldn’t it?

If they/you do operate on faith, then it takes more than faith to inform, ask any scientist.

Yes, it does…Faith, needs works. Otherwise it’s a “dead” faith. James 2:26

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

In logic to me, the spirit fulfills life and spirit as eternal life of Spirit and Life in the fulfillment of eternal love through His Passion, through, The Eternal Body of God, Heaven.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[Madsaac]

Instead of looking for proof of a miracle (I mean, what would you look for? I do believe that there is evidence… maybe chariot wheels in the Red Sea?), I think a better way (well, a less energy-consuming way) to find a genuine religion, is looking for what Jesus said: “By their fruits”, and “all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”— Matthew 7:20; John 13:35

He even said to “love your enemy.” (Matthew 5:44) So that would really preclude any Christian killing anyone, wouldn’t it?


Yes, it does…Faith, needs works. Otherwise it’s a “dead” faith. James 2:26

Yes I understand what you are trying to get at but the reason for the thread is that someone like myself needs more then just words from an ancient text or words from other people to believe in god and religion. I need to see it for myself.

It is a leap of faith, that is just too far. So to believe in god, I need to see something truly miraculous (And I'm not talking about love, or the sunrise etc)

 

[Madsaac]

Peace to all,

I think logically, before creation was ever created was even created Jesus existed as the Word, the eternal Priestly authority and spirit and life of the infallible laws of the eternal universe.

And in logic, to save the mortal and corrupt flesh and spirtis of Created Adam and Eve, The Word became flesh from the Power of the Person of the Holy Spirit conceived in the Person of Jesus to manifest the defiled state of mankind becoming transformed immortal and incorruptible through the intelligence of the fulfilled faith and morality of Christ into becoming again glorified and transfigured in the image of the Creator, God, The Father as one in being, together.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

I don't mean to sound rude but how can you come to these conclusions?

How can a book or man who lived 2000 years ago in the Middle East make you believe in stuff like this? Look at it in isolation and it is so abstract and 'out there'

The idea behind it has merit, but these ideas can be found in many other places.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

Thanks for reading. Madsaac
True all have similar teachings, similar spirits.
Thanks, do you think we will become a divine beings in the new Body?
To me the unity is what is important today, we become united, all mankind.
Just asking?

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It is a leap of faith, that is just too far. So to believe in god, I need to see something truly miraculous (And I'm not talking about love, or the sunrise etc)

You will await an eternity and not get the signs you are after.

Matthew 12:39 "Only an evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of Jonah."

What is needed is detachment and submission,not attachment to miracles and signs.

Regards Tony

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

True all seem to be seeking.
All religions are sprit based, from came the Christians, Muslims, and Jews, and before perhaps. Some see the spirit as a force or energy, of even a power.
I see the spirit as the divine will in logic in being, like, The spirit to me becomes through God.
Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Peace to all,

Thanks for reading. Madsaac
True all have similar teachings, similar spirits.
Thanks, do you think we will become a divine beings in the new Body?
To me the unity is what is important today, we become united, all mankind.
Just asking?

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

One planet one people please.

The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens.

Let man not glory in that he loves his country, let man glory in this, that he loves his kind.

Unity in our diversity is the stage humanity must embrace, it is the age that will come.

Regards Tony

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

Thanks, Tony.
The greatest conversion is the Will of The Divine Kingdom.
Unity in diversity,

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[I Am Hugh]

What happened, did you see the 'light' or a miracle of some sort?

No. Those sorts of things occurred when I was an unbeliever, but what did it for me was the surprising discovery of study. The truth became real, unavoidable.

No, it's for the strong in faith. Because as you say they are tricks, so faith not facts is the only way you can believe

The importance and significance of each varies with the individual, they both have their strengths and weaknesses. Facts can be distorted, overlooked or misinterpreted, signs can be deceiving, imitated by wicked spirit creatures. (John 4:48; 1 Corinthians 1:22; Matthew 16:1-12; Exodus 7:10-13, 20-24; 8:5-7, 16-19)

Really? Come on, the Bible has lots to do with Christianity and the so called miracles are what makes it different from millions of other books

People exaggerate what they want to believe and understate what they don't want to believe. Modern-day Christianity is the immortal soul from Socrates, the trinity from Plato, hell from Dante and Milton, the cross from Tammuz and Constantine, the rapture from Darby, Christmas from Saturnalia and Easter from Astarte / Ishtar peppered with miracles, the trivia of Bible "stories," wishful thinking, delusion and a failing attempt at sociopolitical control. Miracles and signs are the nonsense found in superstition insisted upon by the doubting Thomases. Jesus made holes where there were none so Thomas would believe. It was an illusion. Walking on water and healing were demonstrations of the power of the holy spirit through mortal men with no power of their own to accomplish such things, but those sorts of accounts are commonly lifted in other stories. The difference is those other stories are what?

I can but do you really want to go there

You can to yourself but to do so with someone else is, more often than not, a pointless vulgar display and counterproductive.

If you want me to believe in a religion, the proof is required, otherwise its nothing 'special'.

Reality isn't special, illusion is.

If they/you do operate on faith, then it takes more than faith to inform, ask any scientist.

And they would know? I have little faith in science and the more it takes isn't going to change that.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

To me, logic has more power than all the finite disciplines.

To me in logic, It’s not the Bible and the Bible is the inspired Word and a reference book. Salvation is in the faith. The faith is we are created from mortal and corrupt to becoming incorruptible and immortal and becoming again glorified in the transfiguration in the image of creation from manifestation of the infallible logic, the real intelligence of the universe.

Fiat is Latin for let it be done through the will of the creator

Do you know the religion that offers this feature benefit?

I’m speaking in terms of logic and we know we are saved through faith.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[I Am Hugh]

Your clearly don't understand true faith.

I see. And you're certain about that?

Christianity is based on faith (real faith, which is defined as "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for, being convinced of what we do not see.") Hebrews 11:1

Briefly look this over.

Notice the words "being sure" and "being convinced". There is no "belief" or "hope" involved. True faith is knowing with certainty.

Faith in Jehovah comes easy for me, faith in myself is far more difficult. Where do faith and confidence overlap? If I have confidence in myself, I'm easily deceived, whereas if I have faith in Jehovah, I become more aware of my uncertainty.

 

[jimb]

Yes….”authentic religion.” It really should.

But how many religions have gotten involved with warfare?

Really, some of the bloodiest wars in history have been instigated by religion!

These inauthentic, read counterfeit, religions have not helped to create ‘good human beings with good moral values’. It’s messed humans up.

It has helped devalue human lives.

I think many people see this as hypocrisy. And the result? Membership in quite a few denominations is dwindling.

So sayeth a witness for Jehovah!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

So sayeth a witness for Jehovah!

Yes. The Bible informs us of this, too.
Titus 1:16; Matthew 7:20