Challenge: I'm willing to convert if.......

[Maninthemiddle]

Anyone can prove that the miracles of any kind in the major religious texts, actually happened.

Yes, that's right I am happy to become a Christian or a Muslim.

However, if these miracles cannot be proven, then you must reflect on your belief and the possibility that you believe in what you do, because of your upbringing.

Do not be afraid.

It's essential to recognize that beliefs and faith are deeply personal and can be influenced by a multitude of factors, including upbringing, individual experiences, and introspection. Each person's spiritual journey is unique, and it's not for anyone else to demand proof or validation of one's beliefs. It's important to approach conversations about faith and spirituality with humility and empathy, acknowledging that each individual's path is theirs to navigate.

Asserting that one's openness to becoming Christian or Muslim is contingent on the proof of miracles in religious texts, and implying that others' beliefs may be solely due to upbringing, can come across as dismissive and even arrogant. It's paramount to approach discussions about faith with openness and kindness, understanding that spiritual beliefs are deeply personal and can evolve through introspection and personal experiences.

Rather than seeking to challenge or question the beliefs of others, it's beneficial to engage in conversations about faith and spirituality with a spirit of open-hearted inquiry and a genuine desire to understand diverse perspectives.

Curb your arrogance and seek yourself, no one really cares what path you choose.

 

[Betho_br]

It's essential to recognize that beliefs and faith are deeply personal and can be influenced by a multitude of factors, including upbringing, individual experiences, and introspection. Each person's spiritual journey is unique, and it's not for anyone else to demand proof or validation of one's beliefs. It's important to approach conversations about faith and spirituality with humility and empathy, acknowledging that each individual's path is theirs to navigate.

Asserting that one's openness to becoming Christian or Muslim is contingent on the proof of miracles in religious texts, and implying that others' beliefs may be solely due to upbringing, can come across as dismissive and even arrogant. It's paramount to approach discussions about faith with openness and kindness, understanding that spiritual beliefs are deeply personal and can evolve through introspection and personal experiences.

Rather than seeking to challenge or question the beliefs of others, it's beneficial to engage in conversations about faith and spirituality with a spirit of open-hearted inquiry and a genuine desire to understand diverse perspectives.

Curb your arrogance and seek yourself, no one really cares what path you choose.

Psalm 10:4 Legacy Standard Bible
The wicked, in the haughtiness of his countenance, does not seek Him. All his [a]thoughts are, “There is no God.”

1. Psalm 10:4 Or plots

Recognizing the existence of divine providence marks a significant evolution for the ungodly, encompassing both religious adherents and politicians. Therefore, questioning is deemed valid.

 

[Madsaac]

It's essential to recognize that beliefs and faith are deeply personal and can be influenced by a multitude of factors, including upbringing, individual experiences, and introspection. Each person's spiritual journey is unique, and it's not for anyone else to demand proof or validation of one's beliefs.

Yes, I agree a belief can be deeply personal, so it is a shame when religion makes it way in the 'mainstream' with arguably detrimental consequences, so because of this it is for others to question the validity of ones belief.

Rather than seeking to challenge or question the beliefs of others, it's beneficial to engage in conversations about faith and spirituality with a spirit of open-hearted inquiry and a genuine desire to understand diverse perspectives.

Well, I haven't the capacity of a Bertrand Russell or a Richard Dawkins so I have taken a different root to make a point, however unrefined.

And I think the point is well made, 442 posts later and still no one has demonstrated a shred a of evidence for a miracle.

Who knows, this thread may still be going in 20 years time and still no evidence, what do you think?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

a shining star, lit from a blessed olive tree

It is true. The Quran saying "like a star lit from a blessed olive tree" is a scientifically correct statement. I can see Muhammad also knows how to speak through the layers.

Its like what I was trying to explain about the speech in the Bible:

If you can understand there are multiple different layers of words:

Brass - Silver - Gold
Red - Purple - Blue
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine
Sea - River - Stream
Hill - Valley - Mountain

Then you should be able to understand the alignment through the different layers.

Star, Olive tree, and Oil are words that are in alignment with each other. Look vertically down the second column through the different horizontal layers.

Brass - Silver - Gold
Red - Purple - Blue
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine
Sea - River - Stream
Valley - Hill - Mountain

I learned this way of speaking (sign language) from listening to the Bible nonsense. And after looking at the Quran I can see Muhammad speaks in exactly the same way.

I know Muhammad has a point when saying sinners to hell like cattle.
"And We shall drive the sinners to Hell, like thirsty cattle driven down to water". Quran.

And he has a point by saying brass and tent:
"Say, "The truth is from your Lord": Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it): for the wrong-doers We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on!". Quran.

Cattle and Brass are first column words, just like the word Tent:

Brass - Silver - Gold
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Tent - House - Palace

Muslims talk about the palaces in paradise, but do they also consider the tents in hell?

Do they also consider the "house" (of God)?

"And silver doors to their houses, and thrones of silver on which they could recline". Quran.

Brass - Silver - Gold
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Tent - House - Palace

Maybe people cant hear what is clearly being said.

 

[paarsurrey]

Challenge: I'm willing to convert if.......

paarsurrey said:
So, did our friend @Madsaac got converted, please, right?

No I didn't my friend, thanks for asking but one of the advantages of being on this forum, is I will always be looking for some answers.

What is the question, I may try to help one?

Regards

 

[Maninthemiddle]

Yes, I agree a belief can be deeply personal, so it is a shame when religion makes it way in the 'mainstream' with arguably detrimental consequences, so because of this it is for others to question the validity of ones belief.


Well, I haven't the capacity of a Bertrand Russell or a Richard Dawkins so I have taken a different root to make a point, however unrefined.

And I think the point is well made, 442 posts later and still no one has demonstrated a shred a of evidence for a miracle.

Who knows, this thread may still be going in 20 years time and still no evidence, what do you think?

Miracles will only be seen when you take your blinkers off

 

[Madsaac]

Challenge: I'm willing to convert if.......

paarsurrey said:
So, did our friend @Madsaac got converted, please, right?

What is the question, I may try to help one?

Regards

My question is, can you show me a miracle, please. A 'real one'. Thanks

 

[Maninthemiddle]

Yes, I agree a belief can be deeply personal, so it is a shame when religion makes it way in the 'mainstream' with arguably detrimental consequences, so because of this it is for others to question the validity of ones belief.


Well, I haven't the capacity of a Bertrand Russell or a Richard Dawkins so I have taken a different root to make a point, however unrefined.

And I think the point is well made, 442 posts later and still no one has demonstrated a shred a of evidence for a miracle.

Who knows, this thread may still be going in 20 years time and still no evidence, what do you think?

What are you looking for, a belief in God, or just evidence of an afterlife.
If I saw something that confirmed it, how would I prove it to you.
It is an ignorant and badly thought out question.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

My question is, can you show me a miracle, please. A 'real one'. Thanks

I could show you more of them (As I have already shown some).

Like here is another one:

"And the mountains will be like wool". Quran.

So just like the Star and the Olive tree alignment that I mentioned before, if you look down through the different layers in the third column you can see the words Sheep and Mountain are in alignment with each other.

Brass - Silver - Gold
Red - Purple - Blue
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine
Sea - River - Stream
Valley - Hill - Mountain

Hence it is true what was said. The mountains are like wool. It is a fact.

Brass - Silver - Gold
Red - Purple - Blue
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine
Sea - River - Stream
Valley - Hill - Mountain

Are you having difficulty comprehending what miracles are, which are spoken of in the Bible and Quran?

 

[paarsurrey]

My question is, can you show me a miracle, please. A 'real one'. Thanks

It is not a question, please, right?
Regards

 

[Madsaac]

It is not a question, please, right?
Regards

Yes it is

Can you….?

 

[PureX]

My question is, can you show me a miracle, please. A 'real one'. Thanks

Look in the mirror. Look around you. Existence itself is a miracle.

 

[Muffled]

The only real miracle is that people became transformed. They became selfless and sacrificed their lives to help and serve others. and there are many people who have been transformed . This miracle is proven beyond any doubt.

Again i can believe it is supernatural but not a miracle.

 

[Muffled]

Quite a challenge as it is often said 'miracles do not occur in contradiction with nature, they merely happen in contradiction with that which we recognise as nature'. There is a branch of the magical arts very commonly observed called 'illusionism', where the trickster deceives the eye of the observer to believe in his trick. Despite Bill Hicks eulogies God is not the trickster, surely that is the adversary. However God is infinite and absolute in his nature and thus also in his knowledge. Thus miracles adhere to the same inductive logic parsimoniously as illusions, where it is often intellectually, especially in an scientifically blind era to comprehend the mechanism and means of a miracle; if ever, just as the eye is deceived by an illusion, the mind is blind to a miracle. I think they share characteristics which is surely why one of the names of satan is the trickster/deceiver.

If however as per the OP we ARE to consider a miracle to facilitate your conversion and/or reversion then there can surely only be one miracle we all know that is deductively to be discussed; the immaculate conception of Messiach Jeheshuah, the prophet Isa (saw/pbuh).

I believe the miracles can be done quite naturally by a person with power. God has the power to move atoms around and rearrange things just as He has the ability to create things.

 

[Muffled]

Thanks for the thoughtful response but my mind is certainly not blind to a miracle. And there is no evidence of immaculate conception, just a story written 2000 years a go

I believe that makes sense. If one does not believe in miracles how can one believe in a book? You could believe what I say but that is improbable because you don't know me.

 

[Madsaac]

What are you looking for, a belief in God, or just evidence of an afterlife.
If I saw something that confirmed it, how would I prove it to you.
It is an ignorant and badly thought out question.

Well essentially, these big religions are around because of miracles. If these religions didn't believe any miracles happened, then these religions don't exist.

You cant confirm it because they haven't happened or will happen, the only reason you think they happened is your faith. And the influence they have had on the world is enormous.

Or you could take a video of it

 

[Maninthemiddle]

Well essentially, these big religions are around because of miracles. If these religions didn't believe any miracles happened, then these religions don't exist.

You cant confirm it because they haven't happened or will happen, the only reason you think they happened is your faith. And the influence they have had on the world is enormous.

Or you could take a video of it

You realise I am Buddhist yes, its not a faith based Religion.
Buddha said believe in what you perceive with your 5 senses, don't believe scholars or even Buddha if it doesn't make sense to you.
I don't follow due to miracles and I don't believe many Christians or Muslims do either.
Again you ask for evidence of a miracle, do you think we have them downloaded on our pc or iPhones ready to share.

 

[Madsaac]

You realise I am Buddhist yes, its not a faith based Religion.
Buddha said believe in what you perceive with your 5 senses, don't believe scholars or even Buddha if it doesn't make sense to you.
I don't follow due to miracles and I don't believe many Christians or Muslims do either.
Again you ask for evidence of a miracle, do you think we have them downloaded on our pc or iPhones ready to share.

Yeah but if Buddhists didn't believe in miracles, Buddhism may not even exist. Isn't there some pretty 'way out' things they have supposed to have happened. (Hope that didn't offend but teleportation, multiplication etc is way out there)

It's like trying to sell something to someone, you have to make it sound amazing for people to buy it?

And you bought it? Didn't you?

 

[Maninthemiddle]

Yeah but if Buddhists didn't believe in miracles, Buddhism may not even exist. Isn't there some pretty 'way out' things they have supposed to have happened. (Hope that didn't offend but teleportation, multiplication etc is way out there)

It's like trying to sell something to someone, you have to make it sound amazing for people to buy it?

And you bought it? Didn't you?

Who are you to say with certainty what attracted me to the Religion?
A major point was the quote by Buddha to only believe in what your senses show you, the peaceful aspects of Buddism and the teachings on finding your own path rather then relying on a prophet as Buddha is not worshipped.
I have zero interest in miracles yet you arrogantly assume that's what attracted everyone.
I don't recall ever having encountered such an arrogant assuming person.
A miracle would be figuring out why your on a Religious site when your not remotely Religious but I'm not going to assume to know.

 

[Betho_br]

You realise I am Buddhist yes, its not a faith based Religion.
Buddha said believe in what you perceive with your 5 senses, don't believe scholars or even Buddha if it doesn't make sense to you.
I don't follow due to miracles and I don't believe many Christians or Muslims do either.
Again you ask for evidence of a miracle, do you think we have them downloaded on our pc or iPhones ready to share.

The interpretation suggests a capability of spiritual teleportation, where someone is physically present in one location while their spirit observes and hears events in another. This implies an altered psychic manifestation, where the person's testimony aligns with events happening at a distance, raising the question of whether it's a coincidence. This concept can be understood as a form of psychic projection, where consciousness extends beyond the physical limits of the body.

Within your religious practices, how do you interpret this text?