Charlie Hebdo to attack Muslims again

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's like saying Christianity does not support slavery. Remember, the Christian South went to war to protect the right to own slaves.



Can I get a nickel for every time a Christian has said that America's laws are based on Christian morals? If you want to take credit for good Christian morals becoming laws, then you have to take credit for things like the political approval of slavery also being based on Christian values.

Christianity doesn't support slavery. There's no Christian doctrine that upholds slavery. Just as there's no doctrine in Islam that upholds terrorism and suicide attacks (suicide is a grave sin in Islam, actually).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You do not stop me personally, but every single time you write an answer to someone who open a thread about religion or belief, you write negative negative negative.you haven't had one single post that has been positive toward any religion.
And you ask silly questions that seems to be to hurt or make fun of those who belief.
By the way you are not alone to be an atheist who have zero respect for other human beings.

You and other atheists are the reason RF is no fun anymore. I do not see any reason to have good religious discussions in RF anymore. Because it has become atheists rules forum.

Bye.

Probably best to avoid the main debate forums, honestly.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If it were that simple, there wouldn't be 30.000 denominations of christianity alone.

And most of the differences are over small things.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The almost endless list of islamic militias that do exactly that, while justifying it with a quran, suggests otherwise.

Look, it's not like such islamist groups are the exception... There are hundreds and hundreds of them. All glorifying holy war and martyrdom in the most gruesome of ways. Sure, by and large they are a minority, but quite a sizeable one. Far to big to wave them away as having nothing to do with the religion.

Now, if we lower the bar a bit and also include those people who do not join such groups, but who have some level of support or sympathy for them, we quickly get into double digit percentages.

We could lower the bar a bit further and also include those people and nations who fully support "internal" barbarity like execution of gays, stoning "adulterers" (including rape victims), amputation of hands/feet of thieves, execution for blasphemy, execution for apostacy etc, and the number keeps on rising and rising.

Clearly there are things in Islam that inspire such gruesome barbarity and violence.

Just so you know, christianity used to be not so different. The text of the bible didn't change - the people did. To the point where these days, in most civilized nations, all those horrible bits in the bible are blatantly ignored and not even taught anymore. Yet some of those things still turn up quite oftenly, like with the homophobia in the US and alike.


Considering all of the above, I can only call it "being in denial" when people say that it has nothing to do with the religion. Clearly that isn't true. The trends, the amount of militia's, the level of sympathy, the internal barbaric "laws" and punishments,... they can't simply be cast aside and ignored.

They're not getting their violent terrorist practices from Islamic scripture. They're revolutionary insurgent groups that popped up to kick the Westerners who are occupying their countries out and they tend to view their occupation as a sign that God isn't happy with the Muslim world. They took the suicide bombing tactics from non-Muslim groups like the Tamil Tigers, who use it in their own insurgency. There's nothing in Islam that supports any sort of suicide. It is a major sin, so obviously they're getting that from somewhere else. Traditional Islamic doctrine concerning warfare opposes killing women and children, IIRC. No mainstream religion supports such things as that's just psychopathic.

And again, why does the US and Israeli governments support terrorism exporters like KSA and arm jihadists? This is known fact, not some "conspiracy" you can lazily try to wave away.

 

[McBell]

Christianity doesn't support slavery. There's no Christian doctrine that upholds slavery. Just as there's no doctrine in Islam that upholds terrorism and suicide attacks (suicide is a grave sin in Islam, actually).

The Bible condones slavery.
The Bible does NOT condemn slavery.
The Bible gives specific rules on how to do slavery.

How is this NOT supporting slavery?

 

[ppp]

Christianity doesn't support slavery.

Biblical law and 1,800 years of demonstration to the contrary.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The Bible condones slavery.
The Bible does NOT condemn slavery.
The Bible gives specific rules on how to do slavery.

How is this NOT supporting slavery?

I said Christianity, not the Bible. There's a difference between the two. Christian teaching does not support slavery. The things Paul said have to be put into context. He didn't tell slaves to revolt against their masters, most likely because that wouldn't end well (the slaves likely would've been slaughtered). But Paul did say that slaves and their masters were equals before God, which was a pretty revolutionary statement in those times. The prevailing view of the world at that time is that slaves deserved to be enslaved, they were less than others and the gods created those social divisions in the first place, and this was pleasing to them. Whereas the NT does not present that as being pleasing to God and plants the seeds for abolition by declaring masters and slaves equals.

The Jewish Bible isn't really pro-slavery, either, as the Jews were said to be enslaved by the Egyptians and God freed them. That God frees the captives is a leading tenet in Abrahamic religions. IIRC, Islam also teaches that a person who frees their slaves is blessed by God.

 

[ecco]

I have just started to learn more then the basics of Islam, but I can still defend Islam because I see how happy my girlfriend is as a muslim, so bugger of with your negative words. I am tired of the atheists know more then you bullcrap.

Your complaints are hollow. You didn't know there were no Quranic prohibitions to pictures of Mohammed. You said people should not show pictures of Mohammed.

I took the time to look it up before I posted. You could have taken the time to look it up before you posted. You didn't. If you don't want atheists or anyone else correcting you, do a little research before you post.

You have said several times you are not a Muslim. What are you?

 

[ecco]

By the way you are not alone to be an atheist who have zero respect for other human beings.

You and other atheists are the reason RF is no fun anymore. I do not see any reason to have good religious discussions in RF anymore. Because it has become atheists rules forum.

I'll take it this part of your comment was directed to me as well.

Let's review...
You started a thread complaining about a satirical magazine exercising it's right to free speech.

When will this ****ty "satire" magazine stop harasment of the Prophet Muhammad?
Again they are planning to re publication of the idiotic drawings from 2015.

You made a not-so-veiled threat against everyone with CH.

Did they not learn anything last time?

For 26 pages you made one comment after another attacking people and ideas that Westerners hold sacred - like free speech.

Your comments have also contained untruths - like the Quran prohibiting pictures of Mohammed.

Now you complain that atheists are treating you with no respect. You ignore that religious people, as well as atheists, have mostly responded to your comments the same way.

As Protestant Harry Truman famously said, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen".

 

[ecco]

Christianity doesn't support slavery. There's no Christian doctrine that upholds slavery.

Others believe(d) differently...

Why Did So Many Christians Support Slavery?

Many southern Christians felt that slavery, in one Baptist minister’s words, “stands as an institution of God.” Here are some common arguments made by Christians at the time:

Biblical Reasons
• Abraham, the “father of faith,” and all the patriarchs held slaves without God’s disapproval (Gen. 21:9–10).

• Canaan, Ham’s son, was made a slave to his brothers (Gen. 9:24–27).

• The Ten Commandments mention slavery twice, showing God’s implicit acceptance of it (Ex. 20:10, 17).

• Slavery was widespread throughout the Roman world, and yet Jesus never spoke against it.

• The apostle Paul specifically commanded slaves to obey their masters (Eph. 6:5–8).

• Paul returned a runaway slave, Philemon, to his master (Philem. 12).

​

Also, people used Christian ideals to support slavery.

Charitable and Evangelistic Reasons
• Slavery removes people from a culture that “worshipped the devil, practiced witchcraft, and sorcery” and other evils.

• Slavery brings heathens to a Christian land where they can hear the gospel. Christian masters provide religious instruction for their slaves.

• Slaves are treated more benevolently than are workers in oppressive northern factories.

Social Reasons
• Just as women are called to play a subordinate role (Eph. 5:22; 1 Tim. 2:11–15), so slaves are stationed by God in their place.

• Slavery is God’s means of protecting and providing for an inferior race (suffering the “curse of Ham” in Gen. 9:25 or even the punishment of Cain in Gen. 4:12).
​

That's what so cool about holy scripture...(paraphrasing from a song from A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum...)

Something familiar,
Something peculiar,
Something for everyone:
Religion tonight!

Something appealing,
Something appalling,
Something for everyone:
Religion tonight!

Something convulsive,
Something repulsive,
Something for everyone:
Religion tonight!

Something aesthetic,
Something frenetic,
Something for everyone:
Religion tonight!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Others believe(d) differently...

Why Did So Many Christians Support Slavery?

Many southern Christians felt that slavery, in one Baptist minister’s words, “stands as an institution of God.” Here are some common arguments made by Christians at the time:

Biblical Reasons
• Abraham, the “father of faith,” and all the patriarchs held slaves without God’s disapproval (Gen. 21:9–10).

• Canaan, Ham’s son, was made a slave to his brothers (Gen. 9:24–27).

• The Ten Commandments mention slavery twice, showing God’s implicit acceptance of it (Ex. 20:10, 17).

• Slavery was widespread throughout the Roman world, and yet Jesus never spoke against it.

• The apostle Paul specifically commanded slaves to obey their masters (Eph. 6:5–8).

• Paul returned a runaway slave, Philemon, to his master (Philem. 12).

​

Also, people used Christian ideals to support slavery.

Charitable and Evangelistic Reasons
• Slavery removes people from a culture that “worshipped the devil, practiced witchcraft, and sorcery” and other evils.

• Slavery brings heathens to a Christian land where they can hear the gospel. Christian masters provide religious instruction for their slaves.

• Slaves are treated more benevolently than are workers in oppressive northern factories.

Social Reasons
• Just as women are called to play a subordinate role (Eph. 5:22; 1 Tim. 2:11–15), so slaves are stationed by God in their place.

• Slavery is God’s means of protecting and providing for an inferior race (suffering the “curse of Ham” in Gen. 9:25 or even the punishment of Cain in Gen. 4:12).
​

That's what so cool about holy scripture...(paraphrasing from a song from A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum...)

Something familiar,
Something peculiar,
Something for everyone:
Religion tonight!

Something appealing,
Something appalling,
Something for everyone:
Religion tonight!

Something convulsive,
Something repulsive,
Something for everyone:
Religion tonight!

Something aesthetic,
Something frenetic,
Something for everyone:
Religion tonight!

Those beliefs were made up to justify slavery after the fact. They're not part of historical Christian doctrine.

 

[oldbadger]

No, Britain has no need to chicken out of the human rights act. It is not a EU thing but a European court thing. They want out do they get more control to treat Britain's like ****

Have you actually checked the difference between the two?

No! No! The government is preparing to 'surgically remove' the EU aspects of the human rights legislation which will no longer apply, once we are clear of the EU.
Our HRA 1998 can and will be adjusted and implemented.

Agenda, you mean you don't agree with her?

What..... a journalist with an agenda seeking professional attention? Please!
Grace Blakeley (born 26 June 1993) is a British economics and politics commentator, columnist, journalist, author, and Labour Party activist. She is a staff writer for Tribune and was previously the economics commentator of the New Statesman.
Born: 26 June 1993, Basingstoke
Profession: Commentator, Columnist, Journalist, ...
Works written: Stolen: How to Save the World fr...

 

[oldbadger]

What?

I've had to use gun slips and cases since I was a boy!
I knew about such things when I was an infant.

Illegal, where is their license...

You are displaying your rather incomplete knowledge about guns and gun legislation in the UK.

Anybody with good reason and clear record can have a Beretta. They are not all pistols. Didn't you get the clue? That was easy.

Buy Beretta Shotguns Online at The Sportsman Gun Centre ...
www.sportsmanguncentre.co.uk › ... › New Shotguns
- Beretta shotguns are among some of the most well known shotgun brands for sale. ... Beretta shotguns come in a variety of gauges, chokes and types; from hunting and field shotguns to Beretta's sporting and competition shotguns.

Works both ways

Oh please! Calling humorous questions 'Ignorant Sarcasm' is beneath you, imo.

I'll see you another time.

 

[ChristineM]

No! No! The government is preparing to 'surgically remove' the EU aspects of the human rights legislation which will no longer apply, once we are clear of the EU.
Our HRA 1998 can and will be adjusted and implemented.


What..... a journalist with an agenda seeking professional attention? Please!
Grace Blakeley (born 26 June 1993) is a British economics and politics commentator, columnist, journalist, author, and Labour Party activist. She is a staff writer for Tribune and was previously the economics commentator of the New Statesman.
Born: 26 June 1993, Basingstoke
Profession: Commentator, Columnist, Journalist, ...
Works written: Stolen: How to Save the World fr...

So long as you are happy with the government taking away your human rights. I cannot say i have ever spoken to anyone with your attitude of complacency on this serious matter

Ehhh? Working, seeking professional recognition, i don't see a problem with that

 

[ChristineM]

I've had to use gun slips and cases since I was a boy!
I knew about such things when I was an infant.


You are displaying your rather incomplete knowledge about guns and gun legislation in the UK.

Anybody with good reason and clear record can have a Beretta. They are not all pistols. Didn't you get the clue? That was easy.

Buy Beretta Shotguns Online at The Sportsman Gun Centre ...
www.sportsmanguncentre.co.uk › ... › New Shotguns
- Beretta shotguns are among some of the most well known shotgun brands for sale. ... Beretta shotguns come in a variety of gauges, chokes and types; from hunting and field shotguns to Beretta's sporting and competition shotguns.


Oh please! Calling humorous questions 'Ignorant Sarcasm' is beneath you, imo.

I'll see you another time.

Shotguns are not hand guns. You knew the discussion was about hand guns being illegal in the uk, i think i will need to supp!y model numbers in future

And i though making ignorance, sarcastic comments in an attempt to belittle was beneath you. I am not proud of being wrong

 

[Heyo]

You deny that Osama Bin Laded, a devout Muslim, planned the 9/11 attack.

Willful ignorance is not bliss. You should consider educating yourself on actual facts before posting on a forum.

Off topic, but I have to point out the irony:
Even in the official version of the story Bin Laden was never accused of having planed the 9/11 attacks. He was, and still is, a poster child and rhetorically connected to 9/11, even by high ranking officials (Obama) who know better.
The media brought up his name on 9/11 even before the towers fell.
But in the official version 9/11 was planned by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Bin Laden was never wanted for 9/11.

The fact that this misinformation is still prevalent and even perpetuated is for me a sign that something isn't kosher with the official version.

 

[Howard Is]

Don't blame Islam if Muslims don't follow its teachings.
Compare how Islam changed the region when Europe was in the dark ages
and Spain became the center of knowledge for the west when Islam reached Europe.

That is true.
And books of all kinds were copied and distributed from Baghdad which spread science and all manner of other material across Europe.
I can’t remember the details of that, perhaps you can expand on it.
I’m pretty sure it was using wood block printing.
A lot of Renaissance architecture had its origins in Islamic architecture in Córdoba.
So in fact, Islam had a lot to do with the Renaissance.

 

[FearGod]

That is true.
And books of all kinds were copied and distributed from Baghdad which spread science and all manner of other material across Europe.
I can’t remember the details of that, perhaps you can expand on it.
I’m pretty sure it was using wood block printing.
A lot of Renaissance architecture had its origins in Islamic architecture in Córdoba.
So in fact, Islam had a lot to do with the Renaissance.

This article summarizes the transition of knowledge from the Muslim world to Europe.
Today Muslim scholars are travelling to Europe and USA to gain knowledge and most
of them if not all will stay there, read here

 

[Howard Is]

This article summarizes the transition of knowledge from the Muslim world to Europe.
Today Muslim scholars are travelling to Europe and USA to gain knowledge and most
of them if not all will stay there, read here

Excellent article Thank you.
One thing the article omitted was the invention of the cheque, so that traders on the Silk Road didn’t have to carry gold, and risk being robbed and maybe killed.
The use of the cheque (check in American) relied on trust and honor.

 

[danieldemol]

Off topic, but I have to point out the irony:
Even in the official version of the story Bin Laden was never accused of having planed the 9/11 attacks. He was, and still is, a poster child and rhetorically connected to 9/11, even by high ranking officials (Obama) who know better.
The media brought up his name on 9/11 even before the towers fell.
But in the official version 9/11 was planned by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Bin Laden was never wanted for 9/11.

The fact that this misinformation is still prevalent and even perpetuated is for me a sign that something isn't kosher with the official version.

Osama Bin Laden himself claimed it in 2004 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/bin-laden-claims-responsibility-for-9-11-1.513654