Child Sex Abuse And Atheists

[Salvador]

No I didn't forget what I posted, but it isn't relevant. IT'S SARCASM.

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People like me with Asperger's Syndrome can't easily tell when somebody is serious or joking, Very well then, next time could you please put a after your sarcasm. ..I'd really appreciate if you did this after you've completed a sarcastic remark.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Where is it?

Our news is full of Christian leaders and their followers sexually abusing children, and in great numbers. But as far as I can tell nary a bit news about atheists or agnostics sexually abusing children.

"Investigation Reveals Rampant Sexual Abuse in Southern Baptist Churches"
source

"Pope Francis Admits Priests Sexually Abuse Women, Held Them as Slaves"
source

"Get Shortey (Again): Christian Lawmaker Has to Pay $125K To His Teen Sex Victim"
source

"Texas Catholic Dioceses Disclose 286 Priests Credibly Accused of Child Sex Abuse"
source

"Guy Who Handled Sex Abuse Cases for Vatican Quits After Allegations of Sex Abuse"
source

"Cardinal Claims He “Forgot” That He Knew About a Priest Abusing Kids"
source

"French Cardinal Could Face 3 Years for Failing to Report Abusive Priest"
source

"This is How the Jehovah’s Witnesses Covered Up Abuse by an Elder"
source

"Ex-Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick Accused of Groping Child During Confession"
source

"Two Gonzaga Admins Resign in Wake of Reports About Predatory Priests on Campus"
source

"Boise Priest Gets 25 Years For Child Porn; Liked Watching a Boy Beaten to Death"
source

"The Catholic Church in Illinois Didn’t Disclose Allegations Against 500+ Priests"
source

​

Could it be that, for whatever reason, the Christian religion either attracts child sex abusers or turns people into them?

If not, how do you explain such a lopsided difference?

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Atheists are not as large a portion of the population in the United States. Given that Christianity is represented by 70% of the US population, perhaps there is some density dependent factor at play. I do not know that atheists as a group have lower percentage of pedophiles than the religious, but in sheer numbers, in the United States, clearly there are more affiliated with a religion than not.

It is an interesting question that has ruffled a lot of peoples feelings, but it would be useful to know more if it were not such an under-reported and often covered-up condition that makes developing a useful analysis to help stop the problem very difficult.

One thing I noticed in the responses is the rush to find anything that is remotely associated with secular, agnostic or atheistic groups to show that it is not only Christian organizations that have problems with child abuse. It is important to find child sexual abuse and stop it wherever it is found, but these rushes to show it does occur outside of church gives a sense that we can ignore it in church because it happens elsewhere. The point about all this as I see it, is that church should be the last place it should happen and not even that. It should not happen there at all.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

According to a 2004 research study by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice for the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 4,392 Catholic priests and deacons in active ministry between 1950 and 2002 have been plausibly (neither withdrawn nor disproven) accused of under-age sexual abuse by 10,667 individuals.

There are an estimated 51 million adult American Catholics,

7 facts about U.S. Catholics

Nearly ninety percent of all adult American Catholics now were children between 1950 to 2002.

https://cara.georgetown.edu/staff/webpages/Catholic Families Demographics.pdf

So then approximately 46 million of them were potential victims of child abuse by a Priest. 10,667 alleged victims out of 46 million potential victims means that less than one out of every four thousand Catholic children were sexually harassed by Priests.

I would say that it is around 1 in 4,000 Catholic children that have made a report of sexual abuse by a priest. This does not mean that it is limited only to them being victims of abuse, but your point hopefully means that it is still a low incidence, though I consider any incidence to be extreme. An even larger problem for the Catholic Church was how long this was known to be going on internally and how it was covered up. The Church was essentially creating a safe haven for abusers, even if they were a small percentage of the whole. Other religious organizations appear to follow a similar model of response.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I don't find that to be true. It happens the same way in schools, and day care centers, and hospitals, and police stations, and homes. None is greater in scope than the other.



I was responding to the comment that the abuse was largely due to the church's policy of celibacy. As above, there is no difference to a married man at his home, interfering with his daughter, or the neighbor's son, and an unmarried man in the church, interfering with someone's son, or daughter.

Don't you think that the occurrence in a Christian organization should be 0? And that reporting and helping authorities should be a priority. Clearly, there is a problem and it has clearly been handled very poorly at the expense of the people that should never have been exposed to the problem in the first place.

 

[youknowme]

According to a 2004 research study by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice for the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 4,392 Catholic priests and deacons in active ministry between 1950 and 2002 have been plausibly (neither withdrawn nor disproven) accused of under-age sexual abuse by 10,667 individuals.

There are an estimated 51 million adult American Catholics,

7 facts about U.S. Catholics

Nearly ninety percent of all adult American Catholics now were children between 1950 to 2002.

https://cara.georgetown.edu/staff/webpages/Catholic Families Demographics.pdf

So then approximately 46 million of them were potential victims of child abuse by a Priest. 10,667 alleged victims out of 46 million potential victims means that less than one out of every four thousand Catholic children were sexually harassed by Priests.

You have been watching too much Foxnews . . . you can't just haphazardly stitch "studies" together like that. There is so much potential bias in that approach. There is potential selection bias, clear obvious case to be made that independence would be violated, publication bias, convenience bias . . just off the top of my head.

Also . . .

Keep in mind what are observing is the people who get caught, the real number is likely going to be bigger.

Now your study is from 2004 based on data between 1950 and 2002 and your 51 million estimation is from 2014, get more current information. Also where is the link to the 2004 study?

You need a cohesive study on this topic and you need more current information. The question of interest and hypotheses should all be outlined before you even go to get your data, clearly this needed step can't happen with what you are doing. Now, depending on the study you could use that information to inform your current study design, but what you are doing is not a valid approach. You need a random sample from the population in which you are currently sampling for a statistic to be used as an estimate. What you are doing is not an approach supported by a valid probability model, that means you don’t have real estimation.

You may be able to fool other people with this nonsense, but I am an actual statistician, this is not going to fly with me.

 

[nPeace]

At least I don't follow a religion that preys on children.

Well, fact check - Religion does not prey on children - People do.
If you are not one of those people, good for you. Neither am I.
Soon, according to God's word, the world you are a part of, will pass away, along with its desire, but note... please, the one (person(s)) who does the will of God remains forever. 1 John 2:5-17

So, this is what my religion teaches, people who are alienated from God, will be gone from this earth, but those who love him, will remain forever on it. (Proverbs 2:21, 22)

Isn't that splendid news? No? It is to me, and millions looking forward to it.

 

[youknowme]

Well, fact check - Religion does not prey on children - People do.
If you are not one of those people, good for you. Neither am I.
Soon, according to God's word, the world you are a part of, will pass away, along with its desire, but note... please, the one (person(s)) who does the will of God remains forever. 1 John 2:5-17

So, this is what my religion teaches, people who are alienated from God, will be gone from this earth, but those who love him, will remain forever on it. (Proverbs 2:21, 22)

Isn't that splendid news? No? It is to me, and millions looking forward to it.

Ignoring the problem may make you feel better about following a religion that preys on children, but it doesn't solve the problem.

 

[nPeace]

Didn't you post a bunch of links to printed material that included accusations?

Yes. Do you know, that they are lies? Is there a point you are making?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Well, fact check - Religion does not prey on children - People do.
If you are not one of those people, good for you. Neither am I.
Soon, according to God's word, the world you are a part of, will pass away, along with its desire, but note... please, the one (person(s)) who does the will of God remains forever. 1 John 2:5-17

So, this is what my religion teaches, people who are alienated from God, will be gone from this earth, but those who love him, will remain forever on it. (Proverbs 2:21, 22)

Isn't that splendid news? No? It is to me, and millions looking forward to it.

There are numerous verses of the Old Testament in the Bible that promote the execution of children for various transgressions. I am sure this could be interpreted as support for preying on children by some.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Yes. Do you know, that they are lies? Is there a point you are making?

I do not know the stories you are claiming are lies are actual lies either.

 

[Salvador]

I would say that it is around 1 in 4,000 Catholic children that have made a report of sexual abuse by a priest. This does not mean that it is limited only to them being victims of abuse, but your point hopefully means that it is still a low incidence, though I consider any incidence to be extreme. An even larger problem for the Catholic Church was how long this was known to be going on internally and how it was covered up. The Church was essentially creating a safe haven for abusers, even if they were a small percentage of the whole. Other religious organizations appear to follow a similar model of response.

I read somewhere that Priests whom the Church suspected of being child molesters were often transferred from parishes with lots of children to parishes with very few children; this was the right move to keep suspected pedophiles as far away from children as possible.

 

[youknowme]

I read somewhere that Priests whom the Church suspected of being child molesters were often transferred from parishes with lots of children to parishes with very few children; this was the right move to keep suspected pedophiles as far away from children as possible.

What are you talking about? The right move would be to turn them over to the authorities and kick them out of the Church.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Yes. Do you know, that they are lies? Is there a point you are making?

The point I am making is that you are desperate to find a way to deflect the impropriety away from religion, especially your own version of it. Some of those stories you linked were about abuse outside of child sexual abuse. Are you suggesting that the police and medical professions are made up entirely of atheists? I have many friends that would attest from personal positions that they are not.

You are engaging in a form of denial, because of your personal bias to see what you want.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I read somewhere that Priests whom the Church suspected of being child molesters were often transferred from parishes with lots of children to parishes with very few children; this was the right move to keep suspected pedophiles as far away from children as possible.

The right move would have been to prosecute them, and if found guilty, see to it that they were punished according to the law.

Moving people around is not a cure for the problem. It would be like moving lung cancer to a patients bladder, because you have a higher chance of surviving it. Though, that rational would make more sense in cancer management than it does in dealing with pedophiles.

 

[nPeace]

Ignoring the problem may make you feel better about following a religion that preys on children, but it doesn't solve the problem.

The only problem I see here is your ignoring facts, and saying what you want to say, despite knowing that such a position does not demonstrate reason.
I am not ignoring anything. Your statement is false. Why deny, and not admit it? People prey on children, not religion.

That's why many homes are not safe for many Children, and neither is the porn industry which is not religion either.
These are facts, but there is an obvious reason you close your eyes to them.
Letting go of stubborn pride makes us feel better than that.
Maybe attend a meeting at the Kingdom Hall and see for yourself.
You may be pleasantly surprised at what you learn.

 

[nPeace]

Don't you think that the occurrence in a Christian organization should be 0?

No. Do you...Why do you think it should?

And that reporting and helping authorities should be a priority. Clearly, there is a problem and it has clearly been handled very poorly at the expense of the people that should never have been exposed to the problem in the first place.

No one is perfect. People try to do their best with the circumstances, and we learn how to be better. I experienced this growing up. It's a part of life.
We don't know what goes on behind some people's closed doors.
The world is made up of all kinds of people.
Do you think a wife should be blamed for her husband sexually assaulting their daughter? Should there be zero occurrence there? Why / Why not?

 

[youknowme]

The only problem I see here is your ignoring facts, and saying what you want to say, despite knowing that such a position does not demonstrate reason.
I am not ignoring anything. Your statement is false. Why deny, and not admit it? People prey on children, not religion.

That's why many homes are not safe for many Children, and neither is the porn industry which is not religion either.
These are facts, but there is an obvious reason you close your eyes to them.
Letting go of stubborn pride makes us feel better than that.
Maybe attend a meeting at the Kingdom Hall and see for yourself.
You may be pleasantly surprised at what you learn.

Until members like you learn to recongize the problems in your religion the abuse of children will continue within your own ranks.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

No. Do you...Why do you think it should?

It should not occur at all, but certainly not in an organization whose function is to serve God and profess the teachings of Christ.

No one is perfect. People try to do their best with the circumstances, and we learn how to be better. I experienced this growing up. It's a part of life.
We don't know what goes on behind some people's closed doors.
The world is made up of all kinds of people.
Do you think a wife should be blamed for her husband sexually assaulting their daughter? Should there be zero occurrence there? Why / Why not?

I fail to understand how you can slough this off so cavalierly. That seems to be the attitude that comes to support this sort of thing and not prevent it and fix the damage that has been done.

If a wife knows it was going on and does nothing to stop it, she bears responsibility for her actions or failure to act. If she did not know, then she is as a victim like her child, but a different sort of victim maybe. If a church hides abuse and does not see to it that the abusers are prosecuted under the law, then they bear responsibility too. You do not beat the pig because he saw the fox eat the chicken, but you would get another dog if you knew he watched without acting.

I do not expect people to be perfect, but they should leave children out of consideration as a sexual partner and they should act when they see that someone else is not.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Until members like you learn to recongize the problems in your religion the abuse of children will continue within your own ranks.

That is how I see it.

 

[nPeace]

There are numerous verses of the Old Testament in the Bible that promote the execution of children for various transgressions. I am sure this could be interpreted as support for preying on children by some.

Knock yourself out on your interpretation.

I do not know the stories you are claiming are lies are actual lies either.

That is true. We don't often know what articles are promoting lies, but usually, you can check the facts to verify. I know most of the links I posted are true. They can be confirmed.
That's different to someone making accusations, and you accepting those accusations without verifying the facts.

So, I provide a link with information from an entity. and then someone posts a link with accusations made to contradict. It would be wise to get the facts, as to whether the accusations are true or not. Don't you agree?

The point I am making is that you are desperate to find a way to deflect the impropriety away from religion, especially your own version of it.

I suggest you don't know what you are talking about, and accusing me wrongfully and you appear to be doing so because of a personal agenda to find a reason to cast accusations.
You are wrong, and your words don't mean a thing even if they were said in a court of law. They are simply made up for you own purposes imo.

Some of those stories you linked were about abuse outside of child sexual abuse.

Which links did you find not dealing with child sexual assault?

Are you suggesting that the police and medical professions are made up entirely of atheists? I have many friends that would attest from personal positions that they are not.

How did you arrive at that question?

You are engaging in a form of denial, because of your personal bias to see what you want.

I suggest you again are resorting to baseless accusations. Why? I think you have an agenda.