Children bearing Children

[Sand Dancer]

Here’s a hypothetical.
Say a girl at 12 falls pregnant. Through her own actions, she wasn’t coerced, simply a bit naive and didn’t use protection. Maybe she wasn’t taught how. Doesn’t matter.
Doctors check her over and declare her pregnancy likely to be excruciating. Even recommending abortion. (Of course the choice is hers and possibly her parents depending on the state law.)
Her body simply isn’t developed enough to handle a pregnancy healthily.
Would keeping the baby be morally right?
Would abortion be morally right?
Or is it a grey area entirely?
Just curious on your stance

(For the record, I don’t consider teenagers to be children. They are adolescents. Children getting pregnant as the OP suggested, I took to mean like 10 year olds.)

So many gray areas. Black and white views are easier than thinking, but they are rarely helpful in reality.

 

[JustGeorge]

The southern states have the lowest age for marriage in the US. Maybe they like diddling children. They say Mary in the Bible may have been 14. Woo hoo!

In all fairness, its hard to judge times gone past on today's standards. Life expectancies weren't always the same, and different responsibilities were common at different ages and not necessarily seen as a problem. 14's pretty young for us today, but I'm not sure how it was in Mary's time.

 

[Sand Dancer]

In all fairness, its hard to judge times gone past on today's standards. Life expectancies weren't always the same, and different responsibilities were common at different ages and not necessarily seen as a problem. 14's pretty young for us today, but I'm not sure how it was in Mary's time.

The thing is that puberty has been happening younger as time goes on due to nutrition, hormones in food and other products, obesity, etc. Just two generations ago, puberty happened at 16 or 17. During Bible times, I can't see it being younger than that.

 

[Callisto]

Is it moral and the right thing to do, to allow a child that has gotten pregnant to give birth to a child?

Is children having children acceptable within your religion? Why or why not?

Do the Gods care whether or not Children are raped and forced to give birth in ways that may damage them for the rest of their lives?

It's neither. Even if it's a case of somehow two minors experimenting, underage mothers are prone to elevated health risks (for them and the baby), not to mention the emotional and psychological impact of having a child of their own. That doesn't even begin to address the disadvantages ahead for many of them, inability to finish middle school or high school, no prospects for college, or higher-income employment.

 

[Wildswanderer]

That’s indeed unfortunate. And my heart goes out to her
But if she chose to abort, would you consider that immoral, moral or neutral?

Because I knew a girl in a similar position who aborted, at the doctor’s suggestion. I don’t think she needed to tell her parents. Though she was like 16, there was something wrong with the fetus. Medically speaking.

This makes no sense though. At 16 you can't even decide to drink. You are a minor. So how can you be making life and death decisions when you are legally still under your parents supervision for everything else?

 

[SomeRandom]

This makes no sense though. At 16 you can't even decide to drink. You are a minor. So how can you be making life and death decisions when you are legally still under your parents supervision for everything else?

Totally agree
So I take it under those specific circumstances you would be in favour if the parents decided abortion was necessary?

 

[Subduction Zone]

This makes no sense though. At 16 you can't even decide to drink. You are a minor. So how can you be making life and death decisions when you are legally still under your parents supervision for everything else?

No one wants them to. No one is arguing for that. But unfortunately some children do have sex. Either through lack of education and guidance or worse because they are forced into it. Child abuse is a very ugly thing and it can result in pregnancy.

 

[Mock Turtle]

The thing is that puberty has been happening younger as time goes on due to nutrition, hormones in food and other products, obesity, etc. Just two generations ago, puberty happened at 16 or 17. During Bible times, I can't see it being younger than that.

Not sure we can extrapolate back so neatly with a straight line - and perhaps the rise in puberty was a consequence of environmental factors just as much as the lowering now seen - given this, and other evidence?

Adults at 12? Trends in puberty and their public health consequences

The continued reduction in the age of onset of puberty should not be treated as a biological anomaly. It is likely that some 20,000 years ago, humans had already evolved to experience menarche at around 12 years and at present many countries are moving back to this position.

Children aren't starting puberty younger, medieval skeletons reveal (theconversation.com)

Children are entering puberty younger than before, according to recent studies, raising concerns that childhood obesity and hormone-contaminated water supplies may be to blame. However, our archaeological research suggests that there’s nothing to worry about. Children in medieval England entered puberty between ten and 12 years of age – the same as today.

Ancient Greece and Rome - General Considerations and Source Limitations, From Earliest Infancy to Prepuberty, Education - Encyclopedia of Children and Childhood in History and Society (faqs.org)

Ancient writers agreed that the onset of PUBERTY was in the thirteenth year, but there was no widespread agreement as to the duration of puberty.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Not sure we can extrapolate back so neatly with a straight line - and perhaps the rise in puberty was a consequence of environmental factors just as much as the lowering now seen - given this, and other evidence?

Adults at 12? Trends in puberty and their public health consequences

The continued reduction in the age of onset of puberty should not be treated as a biological anomaly. It is likely that some 20,000 years ago, humans had already evolved to experience menarche at around 12 years and at present many countries are moving back to this position.

Children aren't starting puberty younger, medieval skeletons reveal (theconversation.com)

Children are entering puberty younger than before, according to recent studies, raising concerns that childhood obesity and hormone-contaminated water supplies may be to blame. However, our archaeological research suggests that there’s nothing to worry about. Children in medieval England entered puberty between ten and 12 years of age – the same as today.

Ancient Greece and Rome - General Considerations and Source Limitations, From Earliest Infancy to Prepuberty, Education - Encyclopedia of Children and Childhood in History and Society (faqs.org)

Ancient writers agreed that the onset of PUBERTY was in the thirteenth year, but there was no widespread agreement as to the duration of puberty.

But we are living longer, which puts women at risk for breast cancer because, one, we are exposed to estrogen for a longer period in our lives, and, two, because adolescence is being extended into the 20s and people are having children later in life, which also exposes us to the highest levels of estrogen, which is in our 20s. So this trend is not a good one for us..

 

[Revoltingest]

Is it moral and the right thing to do, to allow a child that has gotten pregnant to give birth to a child?

I mentioned this to a fundie friend yesterday.
The many deleterious health consequences, eg, fistulas.
He was unaware of them, but dismissed this as no concern.
Turns out that it's a common religious view borne of aggressive
ignorance & imperiousness.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I mentioned this to a fundie friend yesterday.
The many deleterious health consequences, eg, fistulas.
He was unaware of them, but dismissed this as no concern.
Turns out that it's a common religious view borne of aggressive
ignorance & imperiousness.

Making decisions without looking at all sides is just misguided and sometimes dangerous. I read a few places where authoritarian Christians tend to have had difficulties with parents early in life and they grow up wanting a vengeful god that will smite their perceived enemies.

 

[Revoltingest]

Making decisions without looking at all sides is just misguided and sometimes dangerous. I read a few places where authoritarian Christians tend to have had difficulties with parents early in life and they grow up wanting a vengeful god that will smite their perceived enemies.

When one has The Truth...a simplistic truth told
by an unquestionable authority, it tends to quell
tolerance & open mindedness.
I know some who suffered under the yoke of
harsh religion.

 

[Mock Turtle]

But we are living longer, which puts women at risk for breast cancer because, one, we are exposed to estrogen for a longer period in our lives, and, two, because adolescence is being extended into the 20s and people are having children later in life, which also exposes us to the highest levels of estrogen, which is in our 20s. So this trend is not a good one for us..

Not querying that, but more about what might be natural. One can find examples as I've given to indicate that puberty was much lower than the levels that it rose to about two centuries ago, and this latter perhaps being down to the advent of cities and/or industrialisation. The fact that until the 1860s, in England, the age of consent was 12 might indicate this too, even if it was wrong. And the same applies in many other countries, including the USA, where I believe some states have no such AOC, or perhaps age to be married.

But as you mention, I doubt the current lowering is at all good for us.

 

[Wildswanderer]

No one wants them to. No one is arguing for that.

Really? No one is arguing that underage girls should have access to abortion without their parents consent? I think you are sadly mistaken.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Totally agree
So I take it under those specific circumstances you would be in favour if the parents decided abortion was necessary?

No. And I certainly don't think a minor should be able to choose to kill her child either, and then live with that guilt in secret.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Really? No one is arguing that underage girls should have access to abortion without their parents consent? I think you are sadly mistaken.

Oh man! So backwards. That is the opposite of wanting them to have children. If you oppose abortion rights you are in favor of young children having children.

 

[Revoltingest]

Really? No one is arguing that underage girls should have access to abortion without their parents consent? I think you are sadly mistaken.

I argue that they should. This transcends parental rights.
It's analogous to needing heart surgery or cancer treatment.
Parents shouldn't have the right to deny them that.
Huge risks to the girl giving birth...
- Health
- Life
- Developmental

 

[SomeRandom]

No. And I certainly don't think a minor should be able to choose to kill her child either, and then live with that guilt in secret.

Okay, I appreciate the honesty.
But what if it was a life threatening pregnancy? Just for example. I mean underdeveloped people being pregnant already comes with a set of health complications right off the bat. So it’s not out of the realms of possibility.
Surely such a decision is perhaps beyond the capabilities of a child. I would agree with that premise
So it would fall to the parents by default.
In your opinion, if they did decide to go that route (abortion,) in the interests of the safety of their own child, would you agree that such an occurrence is perhaps a no win scenario?
A necessary evil, if you will

 

[Wildswanderer]

I argue that they should. This transcends parental rights.
It's analogous to needing heart surgery or cancer treatment.
Parents shouldn't have the right to deny them that.
Huge risks to the girl giving birth...
- Health
- Life
- Developmental

Ahh... so parents have the right to send them to their room but not the right to be involved in life and death decisions. Makes perfect sense!

 

[Wildswanderer]

Okay, I appreciate the honesty.
But what if it was a life threatening pregnancy? Just for example. I mean underdeveloped people being pregnant already comes with a set of health complications right off the bat. So it’s not out of the realms of possibility.
Surely such a decision is perhaps beyond the capabilities of a child. I would agree with that premise
So it would fall to the parents by default.
In your opinion, if they did decide to go that route (abortion,) in the interests of the safety of their own child, would you agree that such an occurrence is perhaps a no win scenario?
A necessary evil, if you will

It's pretty simple really. Go see a doctor and ask him if it's possible for the baby to be delivered.
If it's impossible, that's the only situation where the fetus could be removed to save the girls life.