"Afraid" wasn't quite the word I had in mind.
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China Places Country Dangerously Close To US Warship
- Thread starter lukethethird
- Start date
I actually shudder to think of what may be in your mind.
I addressed WMDs in Iraq.
Not US v China.
Audie
Veteran Member
Taiwan is a province of China btw.
This is contested on neither side of the strait.
Which also btw I doubt you've been on either side,
know anyone nor have any personal stake in any of it.
Extensive plans were long made for defeating
the CCP. Those plans were never available
for the CCP to study.
If you - seriously- believe CCP has made no plans
for how to go about invading the ROC, you are
being profoundly unrealistic.
As unrealistic as asking to see the plans,
timetable if there is one, and how probable it is
that such plans are carried out.
Mostly spiders & cheese.
lukethethird
unknown member
The US military is not surrounding China to pit China against Taiwan, to exploit any political differences, and Taiwan is not a pawn in all of this, no, the US is a guardian of the seas.
As I said upthread, they've been threatening to invade Taiwan since 1949. They have not done so yet. Will they ever do so? If there was any reliable intelligence on the matter, I'm sure it wouldn't be made public, so how can anyone in this thread claim to know any classified data anyway? Are they just going by what some talking head in the media says? Or, are they taking a calm, rational position and carefully examining all the facts?
Can anyone just look at these matters logically, without breaking into the "Evil Empire" theme or trying to reduce realpolitik to some kind of cheesy comic book opera?
In the meantime, should it be the sole responsibility of the US Navy to patrol the waters in the region? Moreover, the question remains, if there truly is a bona fide threat coming from China, then is our current policy towards China a wise and prudent one? Since you seem to have set yourself up as some kind of all-seeing oracle on all things China, what would you say U.S. policy should be regarding China?
Audie
Veteran Member
All of that is news of the excessively
obvious, except the last item, which is just ignorance.
Audie
Veteran Member
Well, it seemed that way, anyway. It seems that you think that some of us are just ignorant naive fools who have no idea just how evil Xi and his government actually are. If we have to stand our ground four-square against them, giving not an inch of international waters to them, then so be it. It's not up to me anyway, so you can thank your lucky stars for that.
In the news....
news.yahoo.com
This must all be an elaborate practical joke that
China's playing on Taiwan. None of these various
invasion exercises is about actual invasion.
Perhaps it's like Putin's massing of troops in
Russia near Ukraine, which was merely a special
military exercise without intent to cross the border.
Taiwan activates air defence as China aircraft enter zone
TAIPEI (Reuters) -Taiwan activated its defence systems on Thursday after reporting 37 Chinese military aircraft flying into the island's air defence zone, some of which then flew into the western Pacific, in Beijing's latest mass air incursion. China, which views democratically governed Taiwan...
China's playing on Taiwan. None of these various
invasion exercises is about actual invasion.
Perhaps it's like Putin's massing of troops in
Russia near Ukraine, which was merely a special
military exercise without intent to cross the border.
Audie
Veteran Member
If that's how I seem to you, it's no wonder
you've such a mixed up understanding of
a much more complex info set.
I've lived on both sides of the strait.
I have relatives, both sides and in the USA,
where I've also lived.
I hardly could help having a deeper and more
up close understanding of Xi than you...
though your idea that I think you naive
about him is 100% off compass.
Naive about the geopolitics tho, yes.
Up close and personal.
The history and geopolitics of the region
actually matters to me.
That includes my current residence in
Singapore, site of the most importent
strait on earth.
Freedom of navigation is of course far from
the US navy's primary mission.
To say it's not there, and that it's not a benefit to
you and me and the man behind the tree is
naive. Or perverse.
lukethethird
unknown member
How is the US navy's provocation a benefit to anyone? You have to be kidding.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
It benefits the territorial integrity of china's neighbors.
lukethethird
unknown member
You mean the pawns.
Audie
Veteran Member
I've had enough of your cant
lukethethird
unknown member
Then go back to watching the propaganda on CNN et al where they will tell you that China battleships are provoking US warships in China's waters and that the US is just there to provide safe passage for everyone.
The thing is, there's different angles and parts to this whole story. I live in America, not in China, so my perspective and worldview is rooted in a North American perception. I'm fairly well-versed in U.S. history and the general ways and means of our foreign policy. I see it on different levels, as the surface-level government rhetoric is mainly just bunkum for the masses, where America is portrayed as the "defender of the free world" and has an indefinite global mission of "making the world safe for democracy." But that's just the propaganda. That's just what the government says to get public support. That's not reflective of reality ("realpolitik"), so to believe in any of that, even one iota, is a sign of extreme naivete.
I don't think I'm really that naive, at least not as naive as the US government was 30+ years ago when they threw caution to the four winds and jumped into the bed with the Chinese. I remember a lot of Americans were not happy about giving China MFN trade status, especially in the wake of the Tiananmen Square incident. Some people thought it was dangerous, short-sighted, but they were ignored, shouted down - mostly by the free trade addicts who crowed about the "global economy" and how China is the "biggest market in the world" and how it can lead to bigger and better things. Right.
But it's important to consider the background of how we got to this point and why we are now so hopelessly entangled and entwined in the situation. During these past decades, the US has gotten steadily weaker and more economically hobbled, while China has gotten stronger and more advanced. This, too, is the result of naivete - as well as a fair deal of corruption and incompetence at the highest levels of power in the U.S.
This isn't really about knowledge of China or knowledge of Xi's government, as I'm willing to defer to your expertise on that side, but this is more about the U.S. and our need to look out for our own interests and national security aspirations. This is about our own government in the U.S. and their decisions, actions, and consequences thereof.
Our relations with the outside world are complicated, but also incoherent and inconsistent - and this is how we've ended up with these loose ends and anomalies, such as Taiwan (or North Korea, for that matter). This is why we're arguing about ships passing through the Taiwan Strait.
Audie
Veteran Member
I never watch CNN.
You are going on ig for a while.
Save what little sense you have for other things
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
So your entire worldview revolves around this little hate boner you're sporting for the U.S.? So despots, terrorists, war criminals, et al get a pass as along as they oppose the U.S. or any of it's allies? It's all based on some silly knee-jerk hangup?