China to rewrite the Bible and the Quran to further Sinicize religion

[Audie]

How is it anti-Chinese bigotry when I am taking up for Chinese Christians? That doesn't make sense. There are already 40 million + Christians in China. It's a lot of people.

I hate communism not Chinese people.

In their minds(atheist communists) God is not a serious consideration. But perhaps you are wise enough to see things from someone else's point of view. That would be nice. It's called empathy.

From the Muslim perspective this would be intolerable to alter the Koran. You could apply the same reasoning to their plight as well.

How is it anti-Chinese bigotry when I am taking up for Chinese Christians? That doesn't make sense. There are already 40 million + Christians in China. It's a lot of people.

I hate communism not Chinese people.

In their minds(atheist communists) God is not a serious consideration. But perhaps you are wise enough to see things from someone else's point of view. That would be nice. It's called empathy.

From the Muslim perspective this would be intolerable to alter the Koran. You could apply the same reasoning to their plight as well.

Anti Chinese rhetoric is growing
n the USA, and the hyprrbolic
vocabulary from you seems entirely
in keeping with the worst of it.

As for lovin' the xians but not the commies,
well the big B might just be rearing its head
there?


Too, you might be synpathetic even to malaria
mosquitoes ifn they were of Christian leanings.

But if zero bigotry is involved, terrif.

You did not say if the koran, BoM,
hindu books etc are also the word
of god, and equally to be revered
and so forth.

If not why not. This is a key quedtion so
plz respond.

Obviously I side with Beijing in considering
all such to be regressive alien superstitions.

I doubt you want alien superstitions changing
your community, your home, or being a source
of discord on a national level.

Are you perceptive enough to take in this pov?

 

[74x12]

Anti Chinese rhetoric is growing
n the USA, and the hyprrbolic
vocabulary from you seems entirely
in keeping with the worst of it.

As for lovin' the xians but not the commies,
well the big B might just be rearing its head
there?


Too, you might be synpathetic even to malaria
mosquitoes ifn they were of Christian leanings.

But if zero bigotry is involved, terrif.

You did not say if the koran, BoM,
hindu books etc are also the word
of god, and equally to be revered
and so forth.

If not why not. This is a key quedtion so
plz respond.

Obviously I side with Beijing in considering
all such to be regressive alien superstitions.

I doubt you want alien superstitions changing
your community, your home, or being a source
of discord on a national level.

Are you perceptive enough to take in this pov?

Freedom of religion means you're not repressive tyranny. It's foundation and bedrock of a modern free state that values actual human rights.

If I criticize China's human rights record it's because they deserve it.

It doesn't matter if I consider Islam or Hinduism valid truths or just more false religions. I still must defend their right to practice their religion without interference.

if you don't want "alien superstitions" changing your community then come up with better ideas. This means you will win people over with actual good ideas rather than suppression and violence.

By what "right" do you think you can take away freedom of religion from millions of Chinese people by force?

 

[Audie]

Freedom of religion means you're not repressive tyranny. It's foundation and bedrock of a modern free state that values actual human rights.

If I criticize China's human rights record it's because they deserve it.

It doesn't matter if I consider Islam or Hinduism valid truths or just more false religions. I still must defend their right to practice their religion without interference.

if you don't want "alien superstitions" changing your community then come up with better ideas. This means you will win people over with actual good ideas rather than suppression and violence.

By what "right" do you think you can take away freedom of religion from millions of Chinese people by force?

Modern free states such as perped the
opium war on China.

What makes you think anyone in
China has a right to be the dupe of
western cultural imperialism, and practice
anti social behaviour such as spresding
superdtition and regressive anti intellectualism?

Bullcrap, nobody has that right.

Its pretty generous to allow them at all,
and you are busy getting all outrsged
with no idea what changes are planned to
blend it into harmony with local culture???

Christianity blends in with regional beliefs
all around the world. Where, as they say,
is the outrage over that?

Just coz you think your chosen is the one that
really -really is the word of "god" dont mean it is
or that anyone has the least obligation to
respect it.

Its just a bunch of words and the
Chinese govt has at least as much right
to rewrite as the blighters who wrote it
had when they made it up in the first placd

If you do not think there is any arrogant
cultural imperialism in your "human rights"
and "word of god" concerns, then think
well if you want your have someone
exercizing their "right" to foist their
superstitions on you until you conform
to their demands.

 

[74x12]

Modern free states such as perped the
opium war on China.

What makes you think anyone in
China has a right to be the dupe of
western cultural imperialism, and practice
anti social behaviour such as spresding
superdtition and regressive anti intellectualism?

Bullcrap, nobody has that right.

Its pretty generous to allow them at all,
and you are busy getting all outrsged
with no idea what changes are planned to
blend it into harmony with local culture???

Christianity blends in with regional beliefs
all around the world. Where, as they say,
is the outrage over that?

Just coz you think your chosen is the one that
really -really is the word of "god" dont mean it is
or that anyone has the least obligation to
respect it.

Its just a bunch of words and the
Chinese govt has at least as much right
to rewrite as the blighters who wrote it
had when they made it up in the first placd

If you do not think there is any arrogant
cultural imperialism in your "human rights"
and "word of god" concerns, then think
well if you want your have someone
exercizing their "right" to foist their
superstitions on you until you conform
to their demands.

Christianity in China goes back 100s of years. It's not some kind of western imperialism. If you haven't noticed; atheistic communism comes from the West. Why does the Chinese government embrace these western ideas if it's so concerned with keeping itself pure and untainted by Western cultural imperialism?

Also, I notice it jumps at the chance to accept American industry so it can make lots of money from American culture. But, now that it is rich and has what it wanted; it wants to start cracking down again on it's old communist ways. Which means bye bye to all the little liberties that Chinese citizens have been enjoying. You don't even seem to mind.

Your lack of care for actual human rights is noted; but just because Western countries did bad things to China in the past doesn't give China a free pass to commit these actions.

 

[Audie]

Christianity in China goes back 100s of years. It's not some kind of western imperialism. If you haven't noticed; atheistic communism comes from the West. Why does the Chinese government embrace these western ideas if it's so concerned with keeping itself pure and untainted by Western cultural imperialism?

Also, I notice it jumps at the chance to accept American industry so it can make lots of money from American culture. But, now that it is rich and has what it wanted; it wants to start cracking down again it's old communist ways. Which means bye bye to all the little liberties that Chinese citizens have been enjoying. You don't even seem to mind.

Your lack of care for actual human rights is noted; but just because Western countries did bad things to China in the past doesn't give China a free pass to commit these actions.

Anyone pushing western religion is engaged in cultural
imperialism. It is a really simple thing.
Dont try to hide it in a fogbank.

If you are good at noticing, you will observe that
you address nothing of what I have asked you about
your distinction between preserving the "word of god"
in your chosen faith,and the equally vaild BoM or Koran.

Nor this...What makes you think anyone in
China has a right to be the dupe of
western cultural imperialism?

Nor this..just coz you think your chosen is the one that
really -really is the word of "god" dont mean it is
or that anyone has the least obligation to
respect it.

nor this-Its just a bunch of words and the
Chinese govt has at least as much right
to rewrite as the blighters who wrote it
had when they made it up in the first place

nor this-arrogant
cultural imperialism in your "human rights"
and "word of god" concerns,

But then, you have no answers. If you did,
you'd surely want to refute what I said.
Tough even for you to refute the truth, tho.


Hence- the strawman-"pure and untainted"

Ignoring, of course, that any nation has the
right to decide what foreign influences it wishes
to adopt.

another ridiculous strawman-"just because
Western countries did bad things to China
in the past doesn't give China a free pass
to commit these actions"

You completely ignored the context for my mentioning
Western behaviour, and used it to concoct this
strawman. You were telling me the wonders of
Western values, and I gave an example of them in
practice.


Hence- the "whatabout" this and"whatabout" that
other topics that you "notice". No answers, so
you do go all whatabout.

Hence-
the nonsense about "now that it is rich and has
what it wanted; it wants to start cracking down again"
That is your chosen reading, though it makes
no sense.

It would not kill you to try to respond to what
to what I actually say, rather than making things
up and going off topic, loading on whataboauts .
strawmen and calumny.

Nor would it fatalize you to attempt to understand
a pov foreign to you own, understand that Chinese
just might be at a minimum as bright and decent
as yourself rather than just calling them evil.

Finally, this shameful bit from you-

You don't even seem to mind.
Your lack of care for actual human rights is noted

If you've a scrap of actual decency in you, you
will retract that, with an apology.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

There is more to communism than just having all things in common. The irony is the sickening things that communist states have done against Christians..

So? Tit for tat-- let's compare that to all the hideous atrocities christians have done to non-christians elsewhere in the world. Take North America, and the wanton slaughter of natives-- rip the kiddos from parents, to brainwash them into "christianity" and murder the parents.

Moreover? Some Brands of Genuine Christian thrived under communism... you keep forgetting that.

I'll excuse your post since clearly you don't know much about China's appalling history of persecution and inconceivable savagery against minority Christians and probably Muslims also; although admittedly I don't know as much about that part of the history.

And I'll excuse your post, since you don't seem to care about the incredibly wide-spread atrocities committed by christians in Europe and the Americas, against non-christians.

As Hitchen's said? Religion poisons everything: Communism is just another form of Religion.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Yes, since when do 2 wrongs make a right?.

True. But What Goes Around, Comes Around. I think that one thing Christians fear the most, in the US? Is that once they are no longer the Majority Power? Everyone else will Remember-- and treat them with the exact contempt that they treated non-christians for hundreds of years.

Of course it is wrong to persecute religious folk and I question the ability of your moral compass that this is not obvious to you

Did I make a Judgement? Oh My! You are projecting your own attitude here-- very Christian Privilege: You don't want to be treated like you treat non-christians!

How Ironic.

 

[Audie]

So? Tit for tat-- let's compare that to all the hideous atrocities christians have done to non-christians elsewhere in the world. Take North America, and the wanton slaughter of natives-- rip the kiddos from parents, to brainwash them into "christianity" and murder the parents.

Moreover? Some Brands of Genuine Christian thrived under communism... you keep forgetting that.



And I'll excuse your post, since you don't seem to care about the incredibly wide-spread atrocities committed by christians in Europe and the Americas, against non-christians.

As Hitchen's said? Religion poisons everything: Communism is just another form of Religion.

I dunno, the atrocities of Christians toward other
Christians would do.

Our friend's "inconceivable savagery" suggests
he has not herd of the inquisition.

As for communism as a religion, it does for sure
have some of the characteristics. Certainly, if the
Christians want to claim atheism is a religion,they
will have to accept communism as one. Especially
that most savage kind of communism. "atheistic communism"!

 

[Audie]

True. But What Goes Around, Comes Around. I think that one thing Christians fear the most, in the US? Is that once they are no longer the Majority Power? Everyone else will Remember-- and treat them with the exact contempt that they treated non-christians for hundreds of years.



Did I make a Judgement? Oh My! You are projecting your own attitude here-- very Christian Privilege: You don't want to be treated like you treat non-christians!

How Ironic.

Ironic is him judging moral compasses, yours and mine?

Knoweth he not, judge not lest thou be judged?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I dunno, the atrocities of Christians toward other
Christians would do.

Our friend's "inconceivable savagery" suggests
he has not herd of the inquisition.

As for communism as a religion, it does for sure
have some of the characteristics. Certainly, if the
Christians want to claim atheism is a religion,they
will have to accept communism as one. Especially
that most savage kind of communism. "atheistic communism"!

Yeah, you have a point-- communism lacks a belief in a specific deity.

However. I would submit that The State fills that role, in most observed State Communism examples.

So State Communism could be 'religion', whereas very small (relatively speaking) communities that try to practice a very different form of communism, as outlined by the bible's Acts, would not necessarily have a deity.

Unfortunately, like all Human Constructs, the problems arise, when we have Zealots, all too often created from Indoctrination of children.

*sigh*

If only we could figure out how to raise children without Indoctrination of Dogma...

I'm remembering 2 or 3 episodes of South Park, several seasons back, where Cartman freezes himself to get to the future.... and all religion has died, but a kind of quasi-atheism has been indoctrinated via Dogma, and risen to take the place of Religion...

Perhaps there is little hope for Humans, in that they seem to require Dogma of one stripe or another...

 

[Audie]

Yeah, you have a point-- communism lacks a belief in a specific deity.

However. I would submit that The State fills that role, in most observed State Communism examples.

So State Communism could be 'religion', whereas very small (relatively speaking) communities that try to practice a very different form of communism, as outlined by the bible's Acts, would not necessarily have a deity.

Unfortunately, like all Human Constructs, the problems arise, when we have Zealots, all too often created from Indoctrination of children.

*sigh*

If only we could figure out how to raise children without Indoctrination of Dogma...

I'm remembering 2 or 3 episodes of South Park, several seasons back, where Cartman freezes himself to get to the future.... and all religion has died, but a kind of quasi-atheism has been indoctrinated via Dogma, and risen to take the place of Religion...

Perhaps there is little hope for Humans, in that they seem to require Dogma of one stripe or another...

I long ago decided that communism decided to
suppress "religion' on account of it is a religion,
and does not want the competition.

As for hope for humankind,I like to believe
that some day we will know how to educate
the young, and each will receive the kind of
care that will optimize their potential.

In that kind of world, I think there will be
no place for dogma.

I do feel bad for the people of today who
like our fundy friends, of a commie* or other
persuasion, who are so sadly crippled in their
ability to think.

* I have an uncle who is still trapped in the
cultural revolution. Dont get him started!!!

 

[74x12]

And I'll excuse your post, since you don't seem to care about the incredibly wide-spread atrocities committed by christians in Europe and the Americas, against non-christians.

First of all, two wrongs don't make a right. Secondly, tell us what exactly anything done in America or Europe has to do with Chinese Christians?

There was nothing to excuse in my post. On the other hand your post was offensive. I speak up for those who don't have a voice. You apparently speak for oppressive communist regimes out of sheer spite for any Christians.

So? Tit for tat-- let's compare that to all the hideous atrocities christians have done to non-christians elsewhere in the world. Take North America, and the wanton slaughter of natives-- rip the kiddos from parents, to brainwash them into "christianity" and murder the parents.

Moreover? Some Brands of Genuine Christian thrived under communism... you keep forgetting that.

Nice examples ... over 100 years old. And never supported by all Christians. In fact your example is more the governments fault than Christianity. Don't blame the churches for what an oppressive regime does. In this case the US government. A well known oppressive entity. They just thought that it would be a good way to "tame" native Americans. Put them in school teach them a lot of propaganda and including some kind of Christianity. But somehow in your atheist mind it's all the churches fault. Nice try. Yet you'd be the first one to point out how the US government is secular in nature and "always has been" because of "separation of church and state". So it is secular isn't it?

China (another oppressive regime) on the other hand is still doing their messed up stuff and it's clearly getting worse.

As for brands of Christianity that "thrived" under communism. Yes, government approved versions that worshiped the government more than God. What is unacceptable to many Christians. It's just a hollow shell. All that represented was oppression. This is the kind of church that will be using the new "Bible" that will be censored. It's just book burning for the modern age. I can't believe anyone would support oppressive regimes like China. If you like China then prepare for similar fun stuff where you live. Social credit scores etc.

Nice try on the China apologetics but it's not working.

 

[74x12]

So? Tit for tat-- let's compare that to all the hideous atrocities christians have done to non-christians elsewhere in the world. Take North America, and the wanton slaughter of natives-- rip the kiddos from parents, to brainwash them into "christianity" and murder the parents.

Moreover? Some Brands of Genuine Christian thrived under communism... you keep forgetting that.

If we are to blame Christianity for the actions of a secular government in brainwashing native american kids then by your own reasoning we can indeed blame atheism and atheists world wide for communist brainwashing and torture of religious people when they tried to literally brainwash them into becoming atheists. Even using sleep deprivation with speakers repeating over and over for days "there is no God".

 

[74x12]

Anyone pushing western religion is engaged in cultural
imperialism. It is a really simple thing.
Dont try to hide it in a fogbank.

If you are good at noticing, you will observe that
you address nothing of what I have asked you about
your distinction between preserving the "word of god"
in your chosen faith,and the equally vaild BoM or Koran.

Nor this...What makes you think anyone in
China has a right to be the dupe of
western cultural imperialism?

Nor this..just coz you think your chosen is the one that
really -really is the word of "god" dont mean it is
or that anyone has the least obligation to
respect it.

nor this-Its just a bunch of words and the
Chinese govt has at least as much right
to rewrite as the blighters who wrote it
had when they made it up in the first place

nor this-arrogant
cultural imperialism in your "human rights"
and "word of god" concerns,

But then, you have no answers. If you did,
you'd surely want to refute what I said.
Tough even for you to refute the truth, tho.


Hence- the strawman-"pure and untainted"

Ignoring, of course, that any nation has the
right to decide what foreign influences it wishes
to adopt.

another ridiculous strawman-"just because
Western countries did bad things to China
in the past doesn't give China a free pass
to commit these actions"

You completely ignored the context for my mentioning
Western behaviour, and used it to concoct this
strawman. You were telling me the wonders of
Western values, and I gave an example of them in
practice.


Hence- the "whatabout" this and"whatabout" that
other topics that you "notice". No answers, so
you do go all whatabout.

Hence-
the nonsense about "now that it is rich and has
what it wanted; it wants to start cracking down again"
That is your chosen reading, though it makes
no sense.

It would not kill you to try to respond to what
to what I actually say, rather than making things
up and going off topic, loading on whataboauts .
strawmen and calumny.

Nor would it fatalize you to attempt to understand
a pov foreign to you own, understand that Chinese
just might be at a minimum as bright and decent
as yourself rather than just calling them evil.

Finally, this shameful bit from you-

You don't even seem to mind.
Your lack of care for actual human rights is noted

If you've a scrap of actual decency in you, you
will retract that, with an apology.

We know you just won't admit China's shortcomings to foreigners. And you'll defend China to outsiders no matter what. Your countries honor or whatever comes first. So maybe you do realize the human rights abuses etc. But just won't say anything.

So why should I apologize? Scrap of decency? Don't make me laugh. Everything I said is valid. Except maybe you do care more than you're letting on here. In which case I am sorry.

Christianity was begun in the middle east not Europe. It is not a western idea. In fact it spread out from the middle east both east and west. There have been Christians in China for a long time.

As for the western idea of communism. We know after WW2 the nationalists should have won. Then China wouldn't be communist today. Unfortunately that didn't happen thanks to American government interference that made sure the communists won. So we're stuck with dealing with communism.

Nor would it fatalize you to attempt to understand
a pov foreign to you own, understand that Chinese
just might be at a minimum as bright and decent
as yourself rather than just calling them evil.

At first I laughed because I thought you were just playing a desperate race card.

But ... I think you're just worried of what I or others might think. Well, your race/nationality is as good as any on earth. So stop worrying about it. Every race on earth is proud of themselves and think they're the best. Only some people are enlightened enough to see through that silly stuff. So don't worry about what people think.

I am defending Chinese citizens from an oppressive regime. That doesn't really imply that I think I'm better than Chinese does it? That's the point of view you should consider. That of Chinese Christians or even Muslims. Falun Gong etc. those the government persecutes.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

First of all, two wrongs don't make a right. Secondly, tell us what exactly anything done in America or Europe has to do with Chinese Christians?.

Firstly, I did not say it did-- you, again, are projecting into what I wrote to fit your agenda that "all atheists hate X". I don't hate christianity or christians. I just wish they'd quit trying -- by stint of law or force -- to impose their immoral bible on the rest of us.

And secondly? What Aboutism is a Logical Fallacy, sorry. But to answer your question? Christians are not this perfect little oppressed people-- if they were not so obnoxious in proselytizing? Likely they'd be left alone...

There was nothing to excuse in my post. On the other hand your post was offensive. .

Firstly? Your post was offensive in the extreme-- you project your own false understanding of what I wrote, and what I think is beyond offensive. But I'm not actually bothered by it-- I only bring it up to show your hypocrisy.

Secondly? So what if you are offended-- you don't have a right to impose your "I'm offended by that" onto others-- your offense affects other people not at all.

I speak up for those who don't have a voice. You apparently speak for oppressive communist regimes out of sheer spite for any Christians..

See? Projection BS on your part-- you are literally lying about what I wrote, here!

As for "those who don't have a voice"..... Riiiiiiiiiggggghhhhhtttttt The Majority Religion on the Planet.... but doesn't have a "voice"...... Riiiiiiiiiigggggghhhhhtttttt.

Talk to the hand.

Nice examples ... over 100 years old. And never supported by all Christians. .

Nope. and? Nope. We have Christians-- today-- oppressing Native Americans in all 3 American Continents.

And so? All Communists are not the same either.

In fact your example is more the governments fault than Christianity. .

Really? Governments run BY christians for the furtherment OF christianity.....

So you admit that Christianity is so weak, that it cannot control it's own membership?

Yeah... we know. It is as if there isn't an actual god who would control these people ...


And that's enough of that-- I'm not reading any more of your deliberately "offensive" lies about what I "said".

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

If we are to blame Christianity for the actions of a secular government in brainwashing native american kids .

Yes... we CAN blame Christianity for that-- because it was Christians who did it, using the Power Of Corrupted Government to force their beliefs onto the Natives.

Because these people literally pointed to the Bible, to "Justify" their activities! They used their Religion to brutally oppress these folk.

then by your own reasoning we can indeed blame atheism and atheists world wide for communist ... .

Nope. There is no Atheist Agenda. There is no Atheist Credo. There is no Atheist Bible. Atheist is ONE THING: We are not convinced your God Claims have any merit.

THAT IS IT. "There is no god" is a different thing altogether.

 

[74x12]

Yes... we CAN blame Christianity for that-- because it was Christians who did it, using the Power Of Corrupted Government to force their beliefs onto the Natives.

Because these people literally pointed to the Bible, to "Justify" their activities! They used their Religion to brutally oppress these folk.



Nope. There is no Atheist Agenda. There is no Atheist Credo. There is no Atheist Bible. Atheist is ONE THING: We are not convinced your God Claims have any merit.

THAT IS IT. "There is no god" is a different thing altogether.

See you think you can just power through this discussion and ignore the rules of logic. You have a contradiction in your reasoning and you know it. Just deal with it.

 

[McBell]

See you think you can just power through this discussion and ignore the rules of logic. You have a contradiction in your reasoning and you know it. Just deal with it.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

See you think you can just power through this discussion and ignore the rules of logic. You have a contradiction in your reasoning and you know it. Just deal with it.

Nope. My post was dead-on accurate. You just hate the fact that your religion is responsible for much of the evil in the world.

It is as if... there was no actual god to police who is, and who is not, a Genuine Christian©.

 

[Audie]

We know you just won't admit China's shortcomings to foreigners. And you'll defend China to outsiders no matter what. Your countries honor or whatever comes first. So maybe you do realize the human rights abuses etc. But just won't say anything.

So why should I apologize? Scrap of decency? Don't make me laugh. Everything I said is valid. Except maybe you do care more than you're letting on here. In which case I am sorry.

Christianity was begun in the middle east not Europe. It is not a western idea. In fact it spread out from the middle east both east and west. There have been Christians in China for a long time.

As for the western idea of communism. We know after WW2 the nationalists should have won. Then China wouldn't be communist today. Unfortunately that didn't happen thanks to American government interference that made sure the communists won. So we're stuck with dealing with communism.

At first I laughed because I thought you were just playing a desperate race card.

But ... I think you're just worried of what I or others might think. Well, your race/nationality is as good as any on earth. So stop worrying about it. Every race on earth is proud of themselves and think they're the best. Only some people are enlightened enough to see through that silly stuff. So don't worry about what people think.

I am defending Chinese citizens from an oppressive regime. That doesn't really imply that I think I'm better than Chinese does it? That's the point of view you should consider. That of Chinese Christians or even Muslims. Falun Gong etc. those the government persecutes.

Too much mixed up fantasy and garbage
to even rate as "unresponsive".

You think everything you say is valid, though
so we will put it down to disability.,