Choices

[KWED]

Your choice is not to have a faith, that is a choice.

If I see an orange, I cannot choose to think it is a banana.
However, it seems that there are some people who see an orange as a banana, and are will not listen if people point out that it is actually an orange.

It is also a choice to use faith for good, or for your own agenda, as it is with all our choices, based in faith or no faith.

The thing that faith is generally used for it to justify stuff that would otherwise seem unacceptable or unreasonable. There is nothing "good" caused by faith that cannot be achieved without it.

 

[KWED]

Who said anything about using faith for determining the validity of a belief? That is what evidence is for.

Indeed. If there is evidence there is no need for faith or belief because we have knowledge.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Most people's faith is arrived at through childhood indoctrination, followed by reinforcement through family and community. This is supported by the fact that the vast majority of religionists follow the faith they were born into.
Of course, many of them claim that they have since researched every other faith and guess what - by massive coincidence the faith that their research shows to make the "most sense" just happens to be the one they were born and raised in. Whoda thunkit?

BTW, we cannot "choose" what we believe. Belief in an unconscious response to a variety of external and internal factors.

Well I chose yes and no, but in the support of choice, I know for many Baha'i it was a moment in time when it was indeed a Choice.

I also have seen people choose between Faiths all the time. A Christain becomes a Muslim etc.

Then there are those that stay with what they were born into, but even that does become a choice to live in life, as they will be faced with other options.

Regards Tony

 

[Katzpur]

Mormon revelations are similar except they also say other religions are definitely going to hell.

Excuse me, but Mormons don't even believe in Hell -- at least not the fire and brimstone Hell of traditional Christianity. The "Hell" we do believe in is a state of mind and is only temporary. And as a matter of fact, our concept of Heaven is infinitely more inclusive than that of any other Christian denomination I can think of. I wouldn't say we believe in the idea of Universal Reconciliation, but pretty darned close.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

As Aristotle said "Give me the boy until he is seven and I will show you the man".
By the time it is time to make a "choice", that choice has already been determined.

And yet therr are many that choose a different path than their parents have walked and taught.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

".....There is nothing "good" caused by faith that cannot be achieved without it.

Prayer is one thing.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If I see an orange, I cannot choose to think it is a banana.
However, it seems that there are some people who see an orange as a banana, and are will not listen if people point out that it is actually an orange.

Faith is a choice between eating the Orange or Bannana, or having a fruit salad.

Seeing is not believing and is not a choice.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Those are all bare claims, not evidence. You don't seem to know the difference.

Well, this is what I said at the end of the post...
"If I saw stuff like that happening, I might believe that God is real... But we don't. All we have is stories about things like that happening. And even Baha'i doubt they really happened."

Does it sound like I'm claiming it is true and is evidence for God being real?

Now, about your "objective" evidence... if you saw someone claiming to be a prophet of God and he prayed to God and laid hands on somebody and healed them, what would you think? Let's say you still didn't believe it was from God and walked away. Then suddenly a bright light appeared and a voice said, "Why do you still doubt that I exist?" And then the voice said in three days such and such is going to happen... and it did. How many things like that would it take for you to believe? Not too many for me. But does that mean it was real? Is it "objective" evidence?

 

[CG Didymus]

words of consummate power and wisdom.

I do not need any advice. And again, the Maids of Heaven.

I wonder where are the "words" of "consummate" power and wisdom? Most of the writings are a bunch of flowery Middle-Easter poetry. But, I guess some people like that kind of poetic writing. But what does it really say? In reading some of his writings I completely miss the point because of all the flowery words.

 

[Trailblazer]

If God is real, there should be objective evidence. You say "no". God is completely unknowable and undetectable, then why expect an Atheist to believe that God is real?

There is objective evidence for God, the Messengers of God, and through them we can know something about God. We can never know the Essence of God (God's intrinsic nature) but we can know God's attributes and the Will of God for humans.

f you want to keep arguing with Atheists, go ahead, but do you really think things will turn out different?

I am not arguing with atheists. Maybe I once did but times change. I might still have discussions with some atheists but I am not arguing. Moreover, I am not trying to convince them of anything, I never was.

 

[Trailblazer]

Indeed. If there is evidence there is no need for faith or belief because we have knowledge.

That's right. I have knowledge because I have evidence.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I wonder where are the "words" of "consummate" power and wisdom? Most of the writings are a bunch of flowery Middle-Easter poetry. But, I guess some people like that kind of poetic writing. But what does it really say? In reading some of his writings I completely miss the point because of all the flowery words.

That would mean you would first have to choose to read them in context of this age.

Regards Tony

 

[rational experiences]

The argument is about.... is life going to continue to exist spiritually and to returned lost health. As our human life our babies life on earth O. O God.

I think is basic bible advice.

Science by invention we know caused our atmosphere heavens to become unholy.

Holy heavens only a human teaching as human life present is not a thesis. It is a human awareness of humans.

So the ark created me knowingly is not real as science states animals biology in a higher irradiating atmospheric history hotter lived first. Dinosaurs the proof.

The teaching living life humans with animals.

The ark caused atmospheric burning had to be cooled by our life water spirit taken from ground into evaporation a teaching witnessed.

As the ground Rock stone gas spirit was leaving. Holes the witness.

2012 end to UFO ark irradiated fallout. We were waiting a huge resurgence of oxygenated water to heal life body mind. Returned back to the ground by pressure changes. Held in the heavens.

Earth flooding cooling the burning gas is still active. Just that it doesn't rain constantly in one place for a forty days count.

The mountain being the place as the UFO hit burnt the mountain. As man the inventor by thin king design by laws said volcanoes split tectonic carpenter plates to arise to release first spirit. Law in space O gods earth.

Design by law to copy causes a human thinking tried to convert mountains into O opened volcano channels. As to copy means logically to cause.

Rationally as human taught science causes.

Humans didn't own the laws. Design lied and was human evils.

Basic human advice

Life irradiated in ark event mutated then owned human healing by atmospheric evolution.....as did animal bodies.

Both attacked witnessed today by radiating phenomena.

We both were attacked.

The status bushes burnt not as noticeable as bio attack.

The theme life in other O places if the heavens was like ours is plausible. As spirit life would have come out of the eternal also direct into its own heavens.

Would not be alien. It would be like we were living consciously on another planet ourselves. By status mass gas in a spatial void.

If you question how consciousness relates identity the irradiation by ark would have recreated their life form as DNA left human life support.

Relative irradiation advice determines the conscious teaching. The information was of science the way it is read misquoted only.

Rome and Jewish Christians were more irradiated than in the Baha'i event the reason.

As when you cannot argue a concept in challenge it is because spiritual self identification no longer exists. In personal conscious identification to reason. By status DNA type.

The image vision animals and humans were seen boarding in the clouds. Where sacrificed life image ended. As the irradiation term is to be abducted.

As life water microbiology only living in tree oxygenated water got taken. Notice tree oxygenation different to oxygen in water the state water.

As oxygenation of the water determines the lower life forms. As loss or presence.

If we explain something not science why would science even be bothered to argue.

If they say science accepts human evolution from an ape type human then no other type of science belief is acceptable.

Which removes any argument about a God.

Humans life claim reality too much death involved arguments about God. Human arguments. We live to be happy healthy and spiritually conscious.

If science says God terms are a problem for science teaching then science also has to alter its teaching to just human life itself.

Why Rome taught no looking back at dead things or speaking of the dead. As they already knew it was not acceptable for human life spirituality or continuance on earth..

To be taught meant we had to learn first.

 

[Aupmanyav]

At least we Love you, sounds like you need a hug, or how about a coffee, or tea and a chat about life and hopes for the future?

I am not dying for a hug, that circle is limited for me. A drink is OK, anything. I don't worry about future. Que Sera Sera.

But what does it really say? In reading some of his writings I completely miss the point because of all the flowery words.

Basically. people who have nothing to say use that strategy.

 

[Muffled]

So for starters I believe I and my brothers were raised in the same church. I have a brother who studied science and is an agnostic. I became a Christian. If no choices were made the result should have been the same.

 

[Mock Turtle]

So for starters I believe I and my brothers were raised in the same church. I have a brother who studied science and is an agnostic. I became a Christian. If no choices were made the result should have been the same.

So you don't think his education had anything to do with this - his choice as to accepting such evidence?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So for starters I believe I and my brothers were raised in the same church. I have a brother who studied science and is an agnostic. I became a Christian. If no choices were made the result should have been the same.

It is to me logically that we have that choice. If faith was not a choice, then there can be no judgement, even in this world.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So you don't think his education had anything to do with this - his choice as to accepting such evidence?

Science does not take us away from God. It can bring us closer.

Regards Tony

 

[joelr]

That is what God offers and that is what the world is balanced upon. Trustworthiness and Truthfulness.

They are the greatest choices we all can make.

Regards Tony

Yes it is claimed that Krishna offers that as well. Many deities offer this and still there remains no good evidence for any of them.
You claim God offers truth but that's interesting because there is no demonstration of a person ever finding a greater truth than things already known through science, philosophy or psychology?

Trustworthiness? Over 1 billion people trust Lord Krishna is watching over them. Millions of people trust Joseph Smith has delivered a new truth from God to them.
Scientologist trust their practice will lead them to transcend the limitations of the planet and have some space adventure. Wow, trusting without good evidence has turned out to be great choices for them! Good point!

 

[joelr]

Excuse me, but Mormons don't even believe in Hell -- at least not the fire and brimstone Hell of traditional Christianity. The "Hell" we do believe in is a state of mind and is only temporary. .

Spirit prision, hell, it doesn't change my point that each sect had strong beliefs about what will happen to other denominations?
The fire brimstone hell is more of a middle ages creation. Judaism had no real afterlife until it borrowed the myths from the Greeks - "Early Judaism had no concept of hell, although the concept of an afterlife was introduced during the Hellenistic period, apparently from neighboring Hellenistic religions".




And as a matter of fact, our concept of Heaven is infinitely more inclusive than that of any other Christian denomination I can think of. I wouldn't say we believe in the idea of Universal Reconciliation, but pretty darned close.[/QUOTE]
Another Greek invention that during the Greek occupation merged it's way into Judaism. Along with the concept of people having souls that were fallen and could be redeemed and go back to heaven.


"During the period of the Second Temple (c. 515 BC – 70 AD), the Hebrew people lived under the rule of first the Persian Achaemenid Empire, then the Greek kingdoms of the Diadochi, and finally the Roman Empire.[47] Their culture was profoundly influenced by those of the peoples who ruled them.[47] Consequently, their views on existence after death were profoundly shaped by the ideas of the Persians, Greeks, and Romans.[48][49] The idea of the immortality of the soul is derived from Greek philosophy[49] and the idea of the resurrection of the dead is derived from Persian cosmology.[49] By the early first century AD, these two seemingly incompatible ideas were often conflated by Hebrew thinkers.[49] The Hebrews also inherited from the Persians, Greeks, and Romans the idea that the human soul originates in the divine realm and seeks to return there.[47] The idea that a human soul belongs in Heaven and that Earth is merely a temporary abode in which the soul is tested to prove its worthiness became increasingly popular during the Hellenistic period (323 – 31 BC).[40] Gradually, some Hebrews began to adopt the idea of Heaven as the eternal home of the righteous dead"

Heaven - Wikipedia

From historian, Biblical scholar, Sanders and Wright on the development of heaven in mythology.