Choices

[joelr]

I see silence is a position I should use more often in life, you are free to choose to say as much as you wish.

Not the position you started out with last post. You claimed I should have remained silent.

I see there was nothing offered in your post that needed rebuttel. You are free to have those views, which means we have little to talk about on this topic.

Oh wow, thanks. I'm free to have those views. Sounded like you said I should be silent a minute ago.......
It is obvious this prolific writer is not a messenger of any God. Besides there is no evidence for any God these writings do not bring anything beyond the most basic of ideas surrounded by endless praise and admiration.

Your choices are not my choices, as I choose Faith and all the wisdom it offers, even if I still have a long way to go to live that wisdom.

Regards Tony

What wisdom does faith offer? Does ISIS have wisdom from their faith? Do the 100+ disciples who have faith in this reincarnation of Jesus (right now) have wisdom?

Do white nationalists gain wisdom from having faith in their movement?

Any of the words in Bahai scripture that you resonate with that say to be good, to accept all religions, having faith that he's talking to a God has no impact on following that wisdom? You don't need a fictional character to endorse wisdom, that's a fact because secular humanists already embrace these things.
Faith makes one believe things that may not be true, that's it.
I can still find wisdom in scripture. But since I do not have faith, when Corinthians says women should be silent in church and if they have a question they are to go home and ask their husbands once home, not at church, I can call B.S. and ignore it.
If a new prophet shows up and manages to convince people they have even more new rules, and one is to kill heretics, I am not bound by this. Some believers might be however.

As long as people believe there are "god messengers" new people will find ways to take advantage of false beliefs. Just watch the video. Only critical thinking will beat this.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Not the position you started out with last post. You claimed I should have remained silent.

The Sarcastic humor went over your head. That's OK, it is a low form of humour.

You finished your post with "I don't see the point of this post at all?"

Having to explain humor, well it did not work did it.

Stay happy, stay well, Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

As long as people believe there are "god messengers" new people will find ways to take advantage of false beliefs. Just watch the video. Only critical thinking will beat this.

No, sorry I would see the contents of that video as bla bla bla, I would see it as childish ignorance that in no way wants to explore the myriad of possibilities that we are faced with in this life, I would see that stance as a rejection of science and reason as both good science and good reason are still open minded to such subjects. That is my opinion, as if what you offer is an introduction to the video, it would be the same material I would be hearing.

So now we have nothing to talk about, nothing to debate, your choices are to be anti God and anti Messengers, not to have faith in God. That's your choice, I have chosen Faith.

I will live in peace with you, I will help you out if you need a hand, we can discuss the niceties of the day, but we have nothing to share in spirit and to me that is the light and life of this world.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

In fact if it came up, I personally would ask for a record from the Messenger so I could read it for myself.

The Issue would be, is that a true and accurate record of what that Messenger offered?

Do Baha'is believe any record from any messenger prior to Muhammad is accurate? Baha'is have said here on the forum, that the only verses we can know are accurate from the Bible are those that are quoted in the Baha'i writings. Which other Scriptures, besides the Bible and the Quran, are quoted by Baha'u'llah? If there are any, does that mean those are accurate and authentic?

 

[CG Didymus]

No, sorry I would see the contents of that video as bla bla bla, I would see it as childish ignorance that in no way wants to explore the myriad of possibilities that we are faced with in this life, I would see that stance as a rejection of science and reason as both good science and good reason are still open minded to such subjects. That is my opinion, as if what you offer is an introduction to the video, it would be the same material I would be hearing.

So now we have nothing to talk about, nothing to debate, your choices are to be anti God and anti Messengers, not to have faith in God. That's your choice, I have chosen Faith.

I will live in peace with you, I will help you out if you need a hand, we can discuss the niceties of the day, but we have nothing to share in spirit and to me that is the light and life of this world.

Regards Tony

So, how do we know this guy's claims in the video to be Jesus are right or wrong? How do we know if other new religious movements are right or wrong? Like the Ahmadiyyas or Mormons? They both have at least as many followers as the Baha'is and, I'm sure, swear what they believe is true and in the truth of their founder. We can ignore them and assume they are wrong, or we can investigate the things they claim and see if we think it is true or not.

If I disagree with their claims, am I anti-God? We all need to test the religious claims of people that say they were sent from God. I don't know a fraction of what Joeir knows, so I'm glad he chose to give his opinion and not stay silent. You believe the claims and the things that Baha'u'llah has said... Joeir doesn't... Why not? That's what we're here for in this debate forum. I know why you and other Baha'is believe. But why do some people reject it? They're spiritually blind? They hate God? Or what?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do Baha'is believe any record from any messenger prior to Muhammad is accurate? Baha'is have said here on the forum, that the only verses we can know are accurate from the Bible are those that are quoted in the Baha'i writings. Which other Scriptures, besides the Bible and the Quran, are quoted by Baha'u'llah? If there are any, does that mean those are accurate and authentic?

A lot of this will take much research CG, this age needs to find unity of purpose, so that out of that unity, we can concentrate on finding those answers.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, how do we know this guy's claims in the video to be Jesus are right or wrong? How do we know if other new religious movements are right or wrong? Like the Ahmadiyyas or Mormons? They both have at least as many followers as the Baha'is and, I'm sure, swear what they believe is true and in the truth of their founder. We can ignore them and assume they are wrong, or we can investigate the things they claim and see if we think it is true or not.

If I disagree with their claims, am I anti-God? We all need to test the religious claims of people that say they were sent from God. I don't know a fraction of what Joeir knows, so I'm glad he chose to give his opinion and not stay silent. You believe the claims and the things that Baha'u'llah has said... Joeir doesn't... Why not? That's what we're here for in this debate forum. I know why you and other Baha'is believe. But why do some people reject it? They're spiritually blind? They hate God? Or what?

By looking into ones own heart CG.

I am an impatient person, been fighting that all my life, the older I get the worse it is.

I have no time for repeated athiest rhetoric, life is too short to waste that much time.

Just where I am at CG. Maybe I need to get away from RF and forums that spout atheist views. Maybe that would be a good choice?

Maybe I will get lucky and get hit with lightning this afternoon, what a blessing, no more anti God rhetoric, poof gone!

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

By looking into ones own heart CG.

I am an impatient person, been fighting that all my life, the older I get the worse it is.

I have no time for repeated athiest rhetoric, life is too short to waste that much time.

Just where I am at CG. Maybe I need to get away from RF and forums that spout atheist views. Maybe that would be a good choice?

Maybe I will get lucky and get hit with lightning this afternoon, what a blessing, no more anti God rhetoric, poof gone!

Regards Tony

I think you're more patient than you think. How many years have we been doing this? But maybe don't post on one of the debate sections. What about comparative religions or something?

I still don't think Atheism is that far off lots of things Baha'is believe, or rather, what Baha'is don't believe. Like a real spirit being called Satan. The six-day creation and flood story and the resurrection of Jesus being literal. But, if Baha'i keep putting out threads that claim God is real, or that Baha'u'llah is the promised return of Christ, then you're going to get Atheists challenging those beliefs. Take care Tony.

 

[joelr]

No, sorry I would see the contents of that video as bla bla bla, I would see it as childish ignorance that in no way wants to explore the myriad of possibilities that we are faced with in this life, I would see that stance as a rejection of science and reason as both good science and good reason are still open minded to such subjects. That is my opinion, as if what you offer is an introduction to the video, it would be the same material I would be hearing.

I have no idea what you are talking about. The video documents a man in Austraillia who is claiming to be an incarnation of Jesus. He is a good speaker, understands psychology, scripture and there people believe without any doubt that this man is who he claims based on the power of his words, intellect, emotions. They say "how could he not be Jesus" It is a good case study is seeing how easily people can be fooled by a person who is smart, well written and knows about past religions.
As long as people don't understand how to evaluate real evidence they will fall for things like this.

So now we have nothing to talk about, nothing to debate,

There is plenty to debate. You are unwilling.

your choices are to be anti God and anti Messengers, not to have faith in God. That's your choice,

Nope. I am anti-terrible evidence. The evidence for God is bad. I am not anti-messenger. I am anti-bad evidence. Besides having no evidence for God I find people should not accept supernatural claims without excellent evidence. Not only is there really no evidence, some of the evidence is actually wrong. Completely incorrect science. Vague prophecies. That's it? Prolific writing isn't proof of being spoken to by a God?
Compared to Plato, Kant and other prolific writers this is like high school level essays using knowledge from a few religions. Not one thing points to a supernatural source.

I have chosen Faith.

So does Islam and Mormonism. So do white supremacists and people who just "know" they are superior to others for reasons of race, religion or whatever. They take it on faith. So did the parents who refused modern medical treatment to their children because their religion said to have faith in prayer. Yeah, that was in the news.

I will live in peace with you, I will help you out if you need a hand, we can discuss the niceties of the day, but we have nothing to share in spirit and to me that is the light and life of this world.

Regards Tony

Then your religion has caused you to fail to understand spirituality, like many others. You feel that following a specific teaching is the only way because that person is special and has a direct line to a God.
You bought into a lie.
In the real world humans can enact compassion and many other spiritual acts just because the are good virtues to live by (as Plato said in Republic) without the godly nonsense and without feeling more special and the "chosen ones"who are following the actual updated God message.
But since you are in the special club, you imagine you cannot share spirituality with other "outsiders". Perfect. What a perfect response. This will continue until all people are secular, realize we are all in the same boat and religions get over themselves.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There is plenty to debate. You are unwilling.

Yes very much so. Faith in God is not a debate.

Regards Tony

 

[muhammad_isa]

I am an impatient person, been fighting that all my life, the older I get the worse it is.

I have no time for repeated athiest rhetoric, life is too short to waste that much time..

You are not alone.

However, satan is merely a created being..
..whereas G-d is the source of ALL.

The wisdom that we can get from pondering on the scriptures with sincerity is INTENSE

 

[joelr]

Yes very much so. Faith in God is not a debate.

Regards Tony

Right because faith isn't a debate. Faith that one gender is superior isn't debatable.
Faith that Allah is the true God and all else are infidels, not debatable.
Faith that Jesus was the final prophet and all else after him are false prophets, not a debate.
Faith that only JW worship the true God, can't debate that.
Faith that the guy in AUS is really the next coming of Jesus, can't debate it. Nope. Faith isn't a debate.
Faith in race superiority, can't debate that. Because you can't debate faith.
Faith that Yahweh is God of the Israelites/Jewish people and the Jesus addition is a heretical pagan creation, probably by Satan, can't debate that.
Great let's keep the world divided by fiction as radical factions emerge and start wars.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes very much so. Faith in God is not a debate.

Nor is faith in a particular religion of God.

 

[Muffled]

No problem. I was told there is no evidence that he even existed.

i believe God doesn't lie, so He exists and is who He said He is.

 

[Muffled]

The Qur'an is claimed to be the literal word of G-d, dictated to Muhammad by angel Gabriel. One either believes this, or thinks that Muhammad was deluded or fraudulent.

The narratives in Qur'an cannot be disproved .. they don't waffle on like the OT.
For example, it is believed that Noah's flood was local, and that the animals on the ark were preserved for Noah, and not for the whole human race.



You'll have to ask them.

I believe I would agree that it is not because I believe Mohammed but because I can recognize the word of God when I hear it.

I believe the OT is inspired by God and much of it contains a direct word from Him.

I believe that also. So you wouldn't find any elephants because they were not native to Mesopotamia.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You are not alone.

However, satan is merely a created being..
..whereas G-d is the source of ALL.

The wisdom that we can get from pondering on the scriptures with sincerity is INTENSE

There is naught but Light and Life available from the Word of God.

Yes, but I see we are the created being that is the source of good if we turn to God, or the lack of good if we turn away from God. I see that is the source of Evil, our own choice to become part of that light, or remain immersed in the darkness, or hell. Satan to me is a station of recognising a Manifestation of God, but then rejecting the Message to take.power for one's own self.

Its a great topic, lots to discuss, but there is no independent source of evil, that tests squarely upon each one of our shoulders.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Right because faith isn't a debate. Faith that one gender is superior isn't debatable.

Gender has naught to do with faith.

Faith is a choice. If you choose not to have faith in God, what is there to debate?

You to your path, I will walk mine. I will live as best I can in virtue and morality, I will try to be the very best neighbour.

If your path has the same values, then life will be lived in unity of those community minded goals.

I am not here to change your mind, I am here to offer alternatives that may foster a lasting unity of humanity, endlessly debating alternatives is not fruitful and is counter-productive in achieving unity.

Regards Tony

 

[Sheldon]

Faith in God is not a debate.

And you think a debate forum is the place is to make such a claim? That's just bizarre.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And you think a debate forum is the place is to make such a claim? That's just bizarre.

Yes very silly indeed.

That s hows that I must move on to discussion only.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

And you think a debate forum is the place is to make such a claim? That's just bizarre.

Tony said: "Faith in God is not a debate."

A person has faith in God... How on earth is that a claim?