Choosing a child's religion vs. a child's career

[Koldo]

I did answer your question, you just didn't like it because you want me to say something else.

You may answer as you prefer, as long as it is a proper answer.

I am not going to say that it is wrong to choose a child's occupation. In a different era of humanity, it was natural for the parents to do so. Today, it is no longer done. Therefore it would be odd and there is a strong likelihood that the child would eventually ignore it anyway once he is old enough. But I would not say it is morally wrong.

If it is not morally wrong, do you think it is an acceptable practice, at this day and age, to do that?

 

[Koldo]

What you might want to point out here is that mere belief in hell doesn't properly convey what a person believes about hell. In fact, if you read the link Ingledsva posted to completion, it actually supports your position more than it does hers:

This pervasiveness of universalism - that strongly suggests Christian parents aren't teaching their kids the once popular hellfire and damnation cliché - is backed up by some research grounded in good methods and statistics. So what are they really teaching their kids? Unless we have some good survey data suggesting otherwise, it makes more sense to posit the universalist message that most actually believe in is making it into children's brains.

I fail to see how a non eternal hell or complete annihilation fares much better than eternal hell.

"Oh, no no. You won't spend the eternity on hell. Just the... next one thousand years... maybe more."

 

[Quintessence]

I fail to see how a non eternal hell or complete annihilation fares much better than eternal hell.

"Oh, no no. You won't spend the eternity on hell. Just the... next one thousand years... maybe more."

I'm going to ignore the fact that you're oversimplifying beliefs about hell, because this is really tangential to the main point I wanted to make. The point is: what are parents actually teaching and emphasizing to their kids? What are the core messages they're receiving? Where's the data?

I'm not going to pretend my experience are a microcosm of all of Catholicism, but when I was being raised Catholic as a child, neither the church, my sunday school teacher, nor my Catholic parent really spoke about hell. When I started expressing disinterest in the religion, they didn't threaten me with hell either. When I actually quit going to church, nobody threatened me with hell. As a Neopagan, I've yet to have any actual Christians say to my face that I'm going to hell for being what I am.

So I ask again: what is actually being taught? And, perhaps as importantly, why?

 

[idav]

I think making an informed decision is most important. I had wished my religious decisions were more informed. Same with a career, I dont feel it fair to be born into a specific job so same with religion. I am more interested in my children finding the truth with our guidance, not to indoctrinate with what we feel is the truth, I try to be honest with the kids with when something is a matter of faith or opinion.

 

[idav]

I fail to see how a non eternal hell or complete annihilation fares much better than eternal hell.

"Oh, no no. You won't spend the eternity on hell. Just the... next one thousand years... maybe more."

Eternal punishment in itself is unfair. What is fair are punishments that fit the crime for the purpose of rehabilitation. A temporary type hell sounds like a place of rehabilitation.

 

[Tumah]

If it is not morally wrong, do you think it is an acceptable practice, at this day and age, to do that?

And that is exactly why I said it was "odd". It is not wrong, but people don't do it anymore. So it would be socially unacceptable in the places that it is socially unacceptable and probably not so effective once the child reaches a certain age. It is socially acceptable to raise one's children in one's religion in the places where it is socially acceptable.

 

[Koldo]

I'm going to ignore the fact that you're oversimplifying beliefs about hell, because this is really tangential to the main point I wanted to make. The point is: what are parents actually teaching and emphasizing to their kids? What are the core messages they're receiving? Where's the data?

I'm not going to pretend my experience are a microcosm of all of Catholicism, but when I was being raised Catholic as a child, neither the church, my sunday school teacher, nor my Catholic parent really spoke about hell. When I started expressing disinterest in the religion, they didn't threaten me with hell either. When I actually quit going to church, nobody threatened me with hell. As a Neopagan, I've yet to have any actual Christians say to my face that I'm going to hell for being what I am.

So I ask again: what is actually being taught? And, perhaps as importantly, why?

You mentioned two different ways to think of hell. You gave an empashis to them, speaking as if they were somehow overall much better versions, which wouldn't be as easily criticized as the eternal hell.

Now, you are talking about something completely different. About how much emphasis parents give to the concept of hell when they are teaching ( or indoctrinating ) their children.

 

[Koldo]

Eternal punishment in itself is unfair. What is fair are punishments that fit the crime for the purpose of rehabilitation. A temporary type hell sounds like a place of rehabilitation.

How exactly temporary hell sounds like a place of rehabilitation?
It sounds like temporary utmost suffering. Is that the kind of rehabilition you would like to see in our jails as well?

 

[Quintessence]

I... I'm sorry that my clarification of the point I wanted to make offends you? If you don't want to address it, then don't?

 

[idav]

How exactly temporary hell sounds like a place of rehabilitation?
It sounds like temporary utmost suffering. Is that the kind of rehabilition you would like to see in our jails as well?

What we experience will be due to karma, it isnt conscious to try and get people.

 

[ChristineES]

did you baptize your children? Put them into Sunday school?

No. My daughter got baptized on her own when she 12 or so. And, no, I went to Church by myself with a neighbor, and didn't bring the kids, except for my daughter on occasion and my younger son back when he wanted to go. I didn't force them. My daughter went on her own with friends to a different Church and was baptized there (Lutheran, I am a Baptist).

My older son is autistic and doesn't understand religion at all, but he does go (he's 21 years old) to a special needs service (which he enjoys) call Luv-em-up. My younger son has decided that there is no God.

 

[Koldo]

I... I'm sorry that my clarification of the point I wanted to make offends you? If you don't want to address it, then don't?

Offends me?
Not at all. Far from that.

But it didn't seem like a clarification at all.
It seems like a distinct point.

 

[Koldo]

What we experience will be due to karma, it isnt conscious to try and get people.

Even if it is not a conscious process, how exactly utmost suffering rehabilitates people?

 

[idav]

Even if it is not a conscious process, how exactly utmost suffering rehabilitates people?

That sounds more like revenge rather than punishment. Inflicting extreme physical pain doesn't sound effective although that much suffering you would probably try to avoid.If we are talking relieving them of harmful attachments well that is supposed to be a good thing but it would hurt at first.

 

[Sees]

The problem in my opinion is concepts of hell go from mythical description and story used for prevention of bad, cruel, ugly deeds to being a form of torture and mind control so easy.

To some it's obvious the concepts of hell were to scare the ignorant into being good boys/girls and remind the wise that our deeds have long-lasting cause and effect reverberations. Others it is a tool of conversion or retaliation against the evil people we couldn't get even with in this life or who knows....

Not enough theists accept mythology as a learning, growing tool that hints at undescribable truths/experiences but see it as revealed truth from on high that is often literal and eternal fate lies in believing so. The crazy continues.

If myth makers could see in the future I wonder how many would have shushed up.

 

[dawny0826]

Are your children baptized? Do they go to Sunday school? Did/do you take them to church?>

My children are not baptised. That's a choice. They've not discussed that with me and I have not brought it up.

I do take them to church - not regularly. However, my youngest daughter does go to church quite often with my sister and her husband. She usually asks them to take her. She enjoys the activities provided through the youth program.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So what happens when you come home telling your mom that Krishna is the one for you and her faith is that Jesus is the door or whatever? Her belief states that you just damned yourself to Eternal Hell. Is she happy?

That doesn't sound like my actual mother, but to go with the hypothetical: she might not be happy. Whether I should change my beliefs because of it depends on how rational her belief that I've damned myself is.

Correct. I do not care if I have to tie my child's arms down to prevent him from shooting himself in the temple. As long as he is alive.

Then you're being short-sighted. Even if all you care about is that your lineage ends up Jewish by any means possible, surely you have to realize that when your grandchild asks his father - your son - why he should be Jewish, he stands a better chance of keeping him Jewish if he can give him some reasons based on careful reflection and not just "I dunno - it's what we've always done."

Because the first describes what I believe will make my child happy and the second describes what made yourself happy.

You've never met unhappy Jews or happy Gentiles?

If I saw that my child enjoyed studying biology I would encourage him to enter the medical field. If I saw he enjoyed a good debate, I'd encourage him to trial law. Because that is what I believe will make him happy. I could be wrong and my child with the skeleton and posters of the body systems may end up finding law extremely satisfying. But I need to go with what I know.

But you probably wouldn't try to close off all the options besides biology, would you?

There is no doubt in my mind that Christians, Buddhists and atheists can be good people. One's religion is not an indication of one's piety. Similarly, happiness, fulfillment, productivity and morality are not characteristics only to be found within a particular faith. But as a person of faith, besides for all those, I also want my child's soul to be "healthy". And for that, I believe s/he needs my faith.

Why do you believe this?

 

[Philomath]

I believe both are wrong. You can steer and lead a child in one direction but you cannot chose their career or their religion for them; that is totally their decision.

 

[Tumah]

That doesn't sound like my actual mother, but to go with the hypothetical: she might not be happy. Whether I should change my beliefs because of it depends on how rational her belief that I've damned myself is.

Your answer does not reflect the context in which the question was made. Ultimately, every child chooses his/her own way. The question was whether the parents should raise their children in their religion. So I don't mean should you change your religion to suit her, I was illustrating that your mother would try her hardest to make sure the son she loves gets through the metaphorical door she believes in.

Then you're being short-sighted. Even if all you care about is that your lineage ends up Jewish by any means possible, surely you have to realize that when your grandchild asks his father - your son - why he should be Jewish, he stands a better chance of keeping him Jewish if he can give him some reasons based on careful reflection and not just "I dunno - it's what we've always done."

You are interpolating here. I can't tie my child down to make sure s/he stays Jewish. What I can do is explain our faith, answer his/her questions and be to him/her someone that s/he would want to be like. And as a child, I can try to ensure that my child doesn't transgress our Laws.

You've never met unhappy Jews or happy Gentiles?

Of course I have. I meant in the long term- ie. I think my child will be much happier not having to pass through hell.

But you probably wouldn't try to close off all the options besides biology, would you?

Personally, no.

Why do you believe this?[/QUOTE]

Because that is a belief within my faith.

 

[Tumah]

I believe both are wrong. You can steer and lead a child in one direction but you cannot chose their career or their religion for them; that is totally their decision.

Ultimately yes. I believe we are talking about when the child is still young,