christainity depends the bible being historic factural

[Windwalker]

Christianity is based on God raising Jesus from the dead period

Period? So, just saying, "Yeah, sure I believe he came back to life", is the essence of being a Christian? I thought Christianity was based on loving your neighbor as yourself. But I supposed a doctrinal view will do as a substitute for failing the greatest commandment.

 

[kjw47]

Which had only the Jewish Scriptures.... I guess believing the Bible is a historical document didn't really matter, since they didn't have the NT yet. I think that was his point.

No they didn't have the nt yet--but Jesus taught the apostles many truths and after he died sent the HS to remind them of truth as well.

 

[kjw47]

Genesis 17:[7] And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.

Genesis 17:[13] both he that is born in your house and he that is bought with your money, shall be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant.

Deuteronomy 7:[9] Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations,

Deuteronomy 29:[12] that you may enter into the sworn covenant of the LORD your God, which the LORD your God makes with you this day;
[13] that he may establish you this day as his people, and that he may be your God, as he promised you, and as he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.

Psalms 89:[34] I will not violate my covenant,
or alter the word that went forth from my lips.

Psalms 105:[8] He is mindful of His covenant for ever,
of the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,

Isaiah 44:[21] Remember these things, O Jacob,
and Israel, for you are my servant;
I formed you, you are my servant;
O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me.

Isaiah 45:[17] But Israel is saved by the LORD
with everlasting salvation;
you shall not be put to shame or confounded
to all eternity.

Isaiah 52:[1] Awake, awake,
put on your strength, O Zion;
put on your beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city;
for there shall no more come into you
the uncircumcised and the unclean.

Isaiah 59:[20] "And he will come to Zion as Redeemer,
to those in Jacob who turn from transgression, says the LORD.
[21] "And as for me, this is my covenant with them, says the LORD: my spirit which is upon you, and my words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart out of your mouth, or out of the mouth of your children, or out of the mouth of your children's children, says the LORD, from this time forth and for evermore."

Isaiah 66:[22] "For as the new heavens and the new earth
which I will make
shall remain before me, says the LORD;
so shall your descendants and your name remain.

Many Israelites left the jewish religion--thus God was still with those--not only that God told them when they accept Jesus they will be his again--the jewish religion refuses to accept Jesus thus are cut off. Some leave the jewish religion and accept Jesus.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

It seems to me that many things we have had because of religion we can have without.

Genocide, war, anger, rape along with morality, happiness and peace

True. But those things probably would have happened none the less.

Nay....the parables of the Carpenter cannot be undone.
Relevant then...and now.

Only if you assume it to be true and not just useful of the time. In fact Christianity itself has no specific usage that couldn't have been filled otherwise. I was actaully referring to even older religions that helped us before written history. The idea that we are higher than animals was more than likely an idea that would not have been possible without religion. Advancement of some ancient technologies may have been based off of ancient myths. Dreams and imagination. This mixing and blending of fiction and reality leads to new inovations. Great architectural feats such as the pyramids, the pantheon and such wouldn't have been made without religion. But later on we began creating great works of architecture, literature and other arts for the sake of themselves rather than "god".

Such things are really behind us as we now have other outlets for imagination and philosophy.

It's not exactly obsolete if what we have today is based upon it. Is it?

Actually it can be. The computor is a bad example. Lets say guns. We use guns. We no longer use spears to kill our food. We no longer use clubs in warfare. They are obsolete.

Clearly not. But what we have today is simply an elaboration and modification on the technology of the past. Does this mean the basic truths of the past are obsolete? Or have we merely adapted them to higher levels of sophistication?

Same as above. Computors is a bad example. But a nuke in no way is an advanced form of a club.

Have they?

There seems to be ample evidence for this yes. I take it you don't agree?

 

[Thief]

Only if you assume it to be true and not just useful of the time. In fact Christianity itself has no specific usage that couldn't have been filled otherwise. I was actaully referring to even older religions that helped us before written history. The idea that we are higher than animals was more than likely an idea that would not have been possible without religion. Advancement of some ancient technologies may have been based off of ancient myths. Dreams and imagination. This mixing and blending of fiction and reality leads to new inovations. Great architectural feats such as the pyramids, the pantheon and such wouldn't have been made without religion. But later on we began creating great works of architecture, literature and other arts for the sake of themselves rather than "god".

I don't consider the parables items of imagination....they just sound that way.

They are a means of direction and discipline.

Perhaps you could read them again....and consider such things aimed ....at your head.

 

[metis]

Many Israelites left the jewish religion--thus God was still with those--not only that God told them when they accept Jesus they will be his again--the jewish religion refuses to accept Jesus thus are cut off. Some leave the jewish religion and accept Jesus.

That simply is not even close to being true, plus what you are essentially implying is that God is a liar who goes back on his promise, which is what "covenant" means. Again, I encourage you to check on the wording of what is found in Torah. And also let me remind you that it was the church that eventually walked away from the Law, which is not binding on gentiles but is on Jews. One simply cannot have it both ways whereas they blame Jews for not following the Law closely enough, and yet they themselves don't follow the Law.

 

[kjw47]

That simply is not even close to being true, plus what you are essentially implying is that God is a liar who goes back on his promise, which is what "covenant" means. Again, I encourage you to check on the wording of what is found in Torah. And also let me remind you that it was the church that eventually walked away from the Law, which is not binding on gentiles but is on Jews. One simply cannot have it both ways whereas they blame Jews for not following the Law closely enough, and yet they themselves don't follow the Law.

In the new covenant Gods word teaches law would be written on ones heart (if they had the required love.)

 

[metis]

In the new covenant Gods word teaches law would be written on ones heart (if they had the required love.)

And you honestly think that's different than what is taught daily in Judaism? Are you aware that this is the same thing that is taught in Torah and repeated by the prophets? Are you aware that the Sermon in the Mount is pretty much standard Judaism?

 

[kjw47]

And you honestly think that's different than what is taught daily in Judaism? Are you aware that this is the same thing that is taught in Torah and repeated by the prophets? Are you aware that the Sermon in the Mount is pretty much standard Judaism?

I know the Jewish have been servants of the only true God on and off for 5000 years or more. They deny the messiah-- Can one be a sevant of God in good standing if they deny the one whom he sent to them? I know your religion doesn't believe Jesus was he, but I as a follower of Jesus believe that Jesus is the promised one-the Messiah-Gods appointed king. My King. Not God however--Gods son.

 

[metis]

I know the Jewish have been servants of the only true God on and off for 5000 years or more. They deny the messiah-- Can one be a sevant of God in good standing if they deny the one whom he sent to them? I know your religion doesn't believe Jesus was he, but I as a follower of Jesus believe that Jesus is the promised one-the Messiah-Gods appointed king. My King. Not God however--Gods son.

I don't have a single problem with what you believe above, as a belief is a belief. Obviously, I don't share your opinion, and hopefully that's OK with you as well. My wife is Christian and we attend services at both church and synagogue, and I make no attempt to convert her.

 

[Ingledsva]

I know the Jewish have been servants of the only true God on and off for 5000 years or more. They deny the messiah-- Can one be a sevant of God in good standing if they deny the one whom he sent to them? I know your religion doesn't believe Jesus was he, but I as a follower of Jesus believe that Jesus is the promised one-the Messiah-Gods appointed king. My King. Not God however--Gods son.

Jesus doesn't match up with the Hebrew prophecies, - and you have no proof that he even existed, - let alone that he was sent by YHVH.

*

 

[gilligan8914]

Jesus doesn't match up with the Hebrew prophecies, - and you have no proof that he even existed, - let alone that he was sent by YHVH.

*

Yes, but for some people the facts are harder to believe than the fiction.

 

[Thief]

I think it was the Carpenter who said....
"If you know not where this comes from, you know not where it leads."
"Neither can you follow."