christainity depends the bible being historic factural

[Ingledsva]

This is true - as far as it goes - as faith in ANY religion does not require any facts.

However - when it goes beyond your personal beliefs - and you tell other people that your religion is the only true one - and they will be tortured forever if they don't believe in it - you had better have real tangible PROOF.

It also makes sense to have some real proof if you are going to be arguing for an invisible god on debate forums.

Circular demand for proof....
Faith needs no proving....and I have no religion anyway.

As for sound reason....cause and effect.

The universe is the effect and God is the Cause.

How can common sense truth be circular?

You can believe/have FAITH that a triad of pink tipped fairies is god. You don't have to prove anything. It is your belief.

You do need real proof when you start telling OTHER PEOPLE that they must believe in your religion or they are going to be tortured. And I might add - when you start trying to affect laws and politics to your religion's god laws.

If someone comes onto a forum and starts telling people their god is the only god and they are going to hell - the forum people are going to ask them to provide real tangible proof. If their answer is REALLY CIRCULAR, such as "because my god said so," and they are then asked how do you know this is true, and they add, "because my religious book says so," that is circular, and they come off sounding like an idiot.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

A pretty good argument for the Trinity, there.

LOL! You are funny.

Off topic - but - I like your Friend Jesus photo. I enjoyed that movie. A friend snuck into Bluewolf's truck and stuck a Friend Jesus plastic statue on the dash. He thought it was hilarious and has been driving around with it ever since.

*

 

[metis]

Nope. The Trinity was always 3 distinct Persons sharing one Being.

We're getting caught up in semantics.

I don't "know." But that's what the doctrine says -- and that's what I'm commenting on. 3 Persons interacting cause the BB. That interaction = one Being, and the BB = creation.

What caused the "three Persons"?

 

[Thief]

How can common sense truth be circular?

You can believe/have FAITH that a triad of pink tipped fairies is god. You don't have to prove anything. It is your belief.

You do need real proof when you start telling OTHER PEOPLE that they must believe in your religion or they are going to be tortured. And I might add - when you start trying to affect laws and politics to your religion's god laws.

If someone comes onto a forum and starts telling people their god is the only god and they are going to hell - the forum people are going to ask them to provide real tangible proof. If their answer is REALLY CIRCULAR, such as "because my god said so," and they are then asked how do you know this is true, and they add, "because my religious book says so," that is circular, and they come off sounding like an idiot.

*

There will be no proof.
No photo, no fingerprint, no equation and no lab results.

Shall we now consider the circular demand for proof...broken?

I have no religion btw.

 

[Sha'irullah]

As I have said before plenty a times.

The Bible is no way can be viewed upon as historical. It is only a collection of writings and theological concepts.

It like the Vedas, Qur'an and Tawrat should be dissected and analyzed for invalidity and worth. They are just stepping stones in mankind's past but are of no relevance now.

The amount of death mentioned in these books is obvious but this does not mean god should be confined to a book. No person with good enough rationality can see the works of mythologies and hold them to be anything higher then what they are. I know it is cruel to say it like this but I prefer being truthful then dodging words to respect the feelings of others.

 

[Thief]

As I have said before plenty a times.

The Bible is no way can be viewed upon as historical. It is only a collection of writings and theological concepts.

It like the Vedas, Qur'an and Tawrat should be dissected and analyzed for invalidity and worth. They are just stepping stones in mankind's past but are of no relevance now.

The amount of death mentioned in these books is obvious but this does not mean god should be confined to a book. No person with good enough rationality can see the works of mythologies and hold them to be anything higher then what they are. I know it is cruel to say it like this but I prefer being truthful then dodging words to respect the feelings of others.

How we got to this point means nothing?
All that scripture is now irrelevant?

I can't agree.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

How we got to this point means nothing?
All that scripture is now irrelevant?

I can't agree.

Our technology is only possible because of older technology. The older technology is now obsolete. We don't use 1970's computers anymore because they no longer meet the demands we have. Similarly the religous ideologies that brought us to our current development have stopped being useful.

 

[Ingledsva]

How can common sense truth be circular?

You can believe/have FAITH that a triad of pink tipped fairies is god. You don't have to prove anything. It is your belief.

You do need real proof when you start telling OTHER PEOPLE that they must believe in your religion or they are going to be tortured. And I might add - when you start trying to affect laws and politics to your religion's god laws.

If someone comes onto a forum and starts telling people their god is the only god and they are going to hell - the forum people are going to ask them to provide real tangible proof. If their answer is REALLY CIRCULAR, such as "because my god said so," and they are then asked how do you know this is true, and they add, "because my religious book says so," that is circular, and they come off sounding like an idiot.

There will be no proof.
No photo, no fingerprint, no equation and no lab results.

Shall we now consider the circular demand for proof...broken?

I have no religion btw.

Then why did you call common sense -

Circular demand for proof....

Also - you say you have no religion - but say things like -

How we got to this point means nothing?
All that scripture is now irrelevant?

I can't agree.

...If you worry that God might be a bit self-centered.....
wait til you meet the 'other' guy!

And what do you think they spend their time doing in hell?...

But my persuasion is a bit different.
The Carpenter is my inspiration.
And I see it most likely the parables are the handiwork of that one Inspiration.

...And judgment falls to all that stand from the dust.
I believe the angels will be there waiting and watching.

Again - you say you have no religion - but You very obviously have chosen Christianity. You may pick and choose from it - but believe in the main characters - The Carpenter Jesus, Satan, Hell, Angels, some of the scriptures, etc.

 

[Thief]

Then why did you call common sense -
Also - you say you have no religion - but say things like -
Again - you say you have no religion - but You very obviously have chosen Christianity. You may pick and choose from it - but believe in the main characters - The Carpenter Jesus, Satan, Hell, Angels, some of the scriptures, etc.

Not having religion does not take away my Inspiration.

And that I don't read scripture as do most....doesn't mean I have a religion.

The above 'characters' you listed .....are real.

btw ...denial is the only contention.
I don't care which prophet if any you call upon.
I don't think heaven does either.

So does Christian faith depend on history?.....no.

 

[Sha'irullah]

How we got to this point means nothing?
All that scripture is now irrelevant?

I can't agree.

You are wrong in so many ways here. The scriptures hold up to no value anymore in regards to understanding the concept of god. Take what you like from them as I do graciously but they are outdated and should be replaced.

Deus ex machina for the win

 

[Sha'irullah]

Our technology is only possible because of older technology. The older technology is now obsolete. We don't use 1970's computers anymore because they no longer meet the demands we have. Similarly the religous ideologies that brought us to our current development have stopped being useful.

It seems to me that many things we have had because of religion we can have without.

Genocide, war, anger, rape along with morality, happiness and peace

 

[Thief]

Our technology is only possible because of older technology. The older technology is now obsolete. We don't use 1970's computers anymore because they no longer meet the demands we have. Similarly the religous ideologies that brought us to our current development have stopped being useful.

Nay....the parables of the Carpenter cannot be undone.
Relevant then...and now.

 

[Windwalker]

Our technology is only possible because of older technology. The older technology is now obsolete.

It's not exactly obsolete if what we have today is based upon it. Is it?

We don't use 1970's computers anymore because they no longer meet the demands we have.

Clearly not. But what we have today is simply an elaboration and modification on the technology of the past. Does this mean the basic truths of the past are obsolete? Or have we merely adapted them to higher levels of sophistication?

Similarly the religous ideologies that brought us to our current development have stopped being useful.

Have they?

 

[s2a]

Christian faith is dependent upon the bible being a historic fact.

1. Jesus was cruxified...and died for our sins
2. Jesus raised himself from the dead.
3. Jesus was deity

christianity cannot be a philosophy like budism...because christianity
depends upon that Jesus dying on the cross and raising himself from the dead is
a historic fact.

Christianity arguements start with biblical archaeology. Historian research of ancient document (where ordinary people do not read material of this kind).

Yes, and?

 

[roger1440]

If the Bible is not historical fact then all Christians including myself are simply wasting our time. Saying that I do not understand Christians who do not take the Bible literally as the Bible is rendered effectively worthless if the Resurrection of Jesus Christ is not taken literally.

The early Christians only had the Jewish scriptures, yet they were Christians. Explain that?

 

[kjw47]

The early Christians only had the Jewish scriptures, yet they were Christians. Explain that?

Jesus gave the Israelite religious leaders every opportunity to correct their errors--they rejected him and his truth and turned their hearts to hatred towards Jesus.--thus God rejected them-Matt 23: 37-38-- a new religion( Gods chosen) came about.

 

[Windwalker]

Jesus gave the Israelite religious leaders every opportunity to correct their errors--they rejected him and his truth and turned their hearts to hatred towards Jesus.--thus God rejected them-Matt 23: 37-38-- a new religion( Gods chosen) came about.

Which had only the Jewish Scriptures.... I guess believing the Bible is a historical document didn't really matter, since they didn't have the NT yet. I think that was his point.

 

[roger1440]

Which had only the Jewish Scriptures.... I guess believing the Bible is a historical document didn't really matter, since they didn't have the NT yet. I think that was his point.

Yeah, what he said.

 

[allright]

Christian faith is dependent upon the bible being a historic fact.

1. Jesus was cruxified...and died for our sins
2. Jesus raised himself from the dead.
3. Jesus was deity

christianity cannot be a philosophy like budism...because christianity
depends upon that Jesus dying on the cross and raising himself from the dead is
a historic fact.

Christianity arguements start with biblical archaeology. Historian research of ancient document (where ordinary people do not read material of this kind).

Christianity is based on God raising Jesus from the dead period

 

[metis]

Jesus gave the Israelite religious leaders every opportunity to correct their errors--they rejected him and his truth and turned their hearts to hatred towards Jesus.--thus God rejected them-Matt 23: 37-38-- a new religion( Gods chosen) came about.

Genesis 17:[7] And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.

Genesis 17:[13] both he that is born in your house and he that is bought with your money, shall be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant.

Deuteronomy 7:[9] Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations,

Deuteronomy 29:[12] that you may enter into the sworn covenant of the LORD your God, which the LORD your God makes with you this day;
[13] that he may establish you this day as his people, and that he may be your God, as he promised you, and as he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.

Psalms 89:[34] I will not violate my covenant,
or alter the word that went forth from my lips.

Psalms 105:[8] He is mindful of His covenant for ever,
of the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,

Isaiah 44:[21] Remember these things, O Jacob,
and Israel, for you are my servant;
I formed you, you are my servant;
O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me.

Isaiah 45:[17] But Israel is saved by the LORD
with everlasting salvation;
you shall not be put to shame or confounded
to all eternity.

Isaiah 52:[1] Awake, awake,
put on your strength, O Zion;
put on your beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city;
for there shall no more come into you
the uncircumcised and the unclean.

Isaiah 59:[20] "And he will come to Zion as Redeemer,
to those in Jacob who turn from transgression, says the LORD.
[21] "And as for me, this is my covenant with them, says the LORD: my spirit which is upon you, and my words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart out of your mouth, or out of the mouth of your children, or out of the mouth of your children's children, says the LORD, from this time forth and for evermore."

Isaiah 66:[22] "For as the new heavens and the new earth
which I will make
shall remain before me, says the LORD;
so shall your descendants and your name remain.