Christian: RCC-Prot Gospel

[Scott1]

At the request of Fish-Hunter:

Would you like to start a friendly debate with offical Roman Catholic doctrine in regards to the gospel, and the Protestant Reformation understanding of the gospel? I think I would enjoy that discussion. Please limit it to the topic of the gospel of God's grace. Check out the LDS belief and the Bible to frame the meaning of the gospel of God's grace.

... and since I'm not particularly sure what he would like to discuss, I'll wait for him to post an opener.

In Christ,
S

 

[Fish-Hunter]

At the request of Fish-Hunter:

... and since I'm not particularly sure what he would like to discuss, I'll wait for him to post an opener.

In Christ,
S

Matthew 4:19:
"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."

Maybe we are both fishers of men? So what's your bait? What is the gospel of God's grace according to the Roman Catholic magestrium?

 

[Scott1]

Maybe we are both fishers of men? So what's your bait? What is the gospel of God's grace according to the Roman Catholic magestrium?

I hate fishing....

I have no idea what you mean by the "gospel of God's grace"... so why don't you start with your "definition" so I can understand.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Ha! I don't think that Christ had in mind that we kill and eat the people that we're fishing for.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

I hate fishing....

I have no idea what you mean by the "gospel of God's grace"... so why don't you start with your "definition" so I can understand.

Please see post 860 and 861 at http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/biblical-debates/64561-lds-beliefs-bible-87.html

I will have to leave for the day. I'm looking forward to reading your post tomorrow.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Ha! I don't think that Christ had in mind that we kill and eat the people that we're fishing for.

LOL...but we do have to kill the flesh, mortify the old man...take up our cross, die of self so we can live in Christ...

 

[Scott1]

Please see post 860 and 861 at http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/biblical-debates/64561-lds-beliefs-bible-87.html
I will have to leave for the day. I'm looking forward to reading your post tomorrow.

OK... let me post it here:

*** quoted wrong post ***
see below

 

[Scott1]

OK Fish-Hunter... I can't figure out what you're trying to get at here...all I see is your interpretation of one piece of Scripture... does this represent your ENTIRE theology?

I'm not sure how you expect me to respond to your opinion on one small piece of Scripture.

Any chance you'd like to discuss this:

I believe that justification by faith is the heart of the gospel, and is the truth that glorifies God.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Forgive me if I am wrong here Scott, but isn't the Catholic Gospel contained in the Nicene Creed???

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

[Scott1]

Well... not the "gospel" per se... but yes, I would say that's a "good start" as a summary of what we believe.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

The gospel can mean the account of Jesus found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The gospel can also mean good news or the great good news of God. I would like to discuss the great good news of God according to the Apostle Paul. There are so many aspects of the gospel of God, that we can discuss the various glorious parts of the gospel for the rest of our lives, and never exhaust the topic of the gospel of God's grace. Here is how Paul describes the gospel in his 13 Epistles:

Acts 20:24:
However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me—the task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace.

Rom 1:1
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God—

Romans 1:9:
God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you -

Romans 2:16:
This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares (Paul's gospel).

Romans 15:16:
to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 15:19:
by the power of signs and miracles, through the power of the Spirit. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.

Romans 16:25:
Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,

1 Corinthians 9:13:
But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.

2 Corinthians 4:4:
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Ephesians 1:13:
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 6:15:
and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.

There are 91 references to the gospel (good news) in the NIV: Bible Resources, Online Bible, Read the Bible, Search the Bible, Bible Study Plan, Passage Search, Keyword Search

 

[Fish-Hunter]

OK Fish-Hunter... I can't figure out what you're trying to get at here...all I see is your interpretation of one piece of Scripture... does this represent your ENTIRE theology?

I'm not sure how you expect me to respond to your opinion on one small piece of Scripture.

Any chance you'd like to discuss this:

I think you posted Orontes answer to me. I must have given your the wrong reference by 1 or two postings. Sorry.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Forgive me if I am wrong here Scott, but isn't the Catholic Gospel contained in the Nicene Creed???

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

I too agree in the Nicene creed. The Church is one holy catholic (universal) and apostolic Church. This is not to be confused with the ROMAN Catholic Church.

 

[Scuba Pete]

The Nicene Creed is fine, though I have no need for extra scriptural writings.

But I think you are missing what the "Gospel" really is.

 

[Scott1]

But I think you are missing what the "Gospel" really is.

Methinks so too...

FYI Fish-Hunter .... giving me a bunch of bible quotes does little to help me understand what YOU believe.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Gospel comes from the Greek "Evangelion" and literally means "Good News". The term "Evangelism", and all of it's iterations are derived from this Greek word. In my mind there is one scripture which catches the essence of the "Gospel":

I Corinthians 15:1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. NIV

The Gospel really doesn't contain (or need) for a lot of rules and ordinances. After all, it's the GOOD NEWS! God loves us after all.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Gospel comes from the Greek "Evangelion" and literally means "Good News". The term "Evangelism", and all of it's iterations are derived from this Greek word. In my mind there is one scripture which catches the essence of the "Gospel":

I Corinthians 15:1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. NIV

The Gospel really doesn't contain (or need) for a lot of rules and ordinances. After all, it's the GOOD NEWS! God loves us after all.

Think about what you posted. By this gospel you are saved..otherwise you have believed in vain. That Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures....

I think this thread is a debate between the official Roman Catholic proclamation of the gospel (scripture + sacred tradition) and the Reformed proclamation of the gospel (Sola Scriptura). Is that correct Scott? I don't think Scuba Pete would identify with the Protestant Reformation proclamation of the gospel or the Roman Catholic proclamation of the gospel. Therefore, he would possibly change the intent of the thread.

Monergism :: Search Results - Reformed understanding of the gospel

 

[Scuba Pete]

I think this thread is a debate between the official Roman Catholic proclamation of the gospel (scriptue + sacred tradition) and the Reformed proclamation of the gospel (Sola Scriptura). Is that correct Scott?

Interesting. I take it you don't want me in on this discussion then. I find both disciplines flawed and rather depend on the Holy Spirit to reveal God's will to me. But hey, militant theism is a tough row to hoe: not everyone is ready for Freedom.

 

[Scott1]

I think this thread is a debate between the official Roman Catholic proclamation of the gospel (scripture + sacred tradition) and the Reformed proclamation of the gospel (Sola Scriptura). Is that correct Scott?

Sounds good to me (sorry Pete )...... would you like me just to give you links to read as well, or are you going to participate on this thread?

... because I could just give you the link to the Catechism Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 1 CHAPTER 1 and we'll just end this here... or you can actually put into your own words (and quotes) what you believe.

Kinda like this:

We believe Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit."


-And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching."
As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.

And we believe this to be the authentic teaching of the HISTORICAL Christian Church :
“Those, therefore, who desert the preaching of the Church, call in question the knowledge of the holy presbyters, not taking into consideration of how much greater consequence is a religious man, even in a private station, than a blasphemous and impudent sophist. Now, such are all the heretics, and those who imagine that they have hit upon something more beyond the truth, so that by following those things already mentioned, proceeding on their way variously, in harmoniously, and foolishly, not keeping always to the same opinions with regard to the same things, as blind men are led by the blind, they shall deservedly fall into the ditch of ignorance lying in their path, ever seeking and never finding out the truth. It behooves us, therefore, to avoid their doctrines, and to take careful heed lest we suffer any injury from them; but to flee to the Church, and be brought up in her bosom, and be nourished with the Lord's Scriptures." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 5,20:2 (A.D. 180).

.... as the doctrine of sola scriptura is a 16th century innovation, and not part of the historical faith.

In Christ,
S

 

[Mister Emu]

That Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures

My understanding is that when the NT refers to scriptures, it is referring to the OT.

I think this thread is a debate between the official Roman Catholic proclamation of the gospel (scripture + sacred tradition) and the Reformed proclamation of the gospel (Sola Scriptura).

The Bible calls for us to "hold fast to the traditions which you have been taught, whether by word or epistle."(2 Thessalonian 2:15) and calls the Church "the pillar and ground of the truth"(1 Timothy 3:15)

Secondly, the Biblical canon itself is an extra-Biblical tradition.

That said, there has not been in my experience any difference in the Gospel preached at protestant worship and at Catholic Mass.