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Christian: RCC-Prot Gospel
- Thread starter Scott1
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Fish-Hunter
Rejoice in the Lord!
That's the common problem with Roman Catholics. We share the exact same New Testament and a similar high view of Scriptures, being the Word of God. The word "gospel" is used numerous times in the Epistles by Peter and Paul. Yet, you guys have no idea what Peter and Paul mean by the gospel of God, gospel of God's grace, gospel of Paul (my gospel), glorious gospel, gospel of Christ, etc. These are not exclusive Protestant concepts, but just a very significant biblical word...the gospel (good news) of God. Are you sure you guys are trusting Christ and the promises of the good news of God? Or, are you trusting in the religious instution called the Roman Catholic Church? Do you have any idea what are you being saved from, and from whom?
Bible Resources, Online Bible, Read the Bible, Search the Bible, Bible Study Plan, Passage Search, Keyword Search
Think link above are references to the word "gospel" in our shared New Testament cannon. The Holy Bible is the Word of God, right?
Romans 10
Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for many professing Christians (the Israelites) is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge.Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
Scott1
Well-Known Member
Oh vey... we don't follow along with the thoughts in your head and we're somehow lacking... good grief.
The Gospel is not a few verses you quote from the Bible... the Gospel is the entire Good news of Jesus Christ.
In case you've forgotten... we don't adhere to the false doctrine of sola scriptura, so forgive me if I can't cut and paste from another site as well as you.
How about this... you explain IN YOUR WORDS, what the Gospel is... no bible quotes... no stealing from a website... YOUR WORDS.
Try that.
Fish-Hunter
Rejoice in the Lord!
Scott1
Well-Known Member
Nah... I think I'm done.What' wrong with the Word of God?Let's break for a few days, okay?
I don't see anything positive coming from our discussion....if all you can do is post bible quotes (and since I can't read your mind, may interpret the verse differently) and give me quotes to websites with thousands of pages of text ... I'd prefer to end this here.
But I'm hopeful... I'll be reading along!
What do you mean by "essential gospel issues"?
I didn't say that there was no differences in the services, but that there was no difference in the Gospel preached.
Amen.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
It would appear that I hold more closely to the scriptures than the proclaimed sola scripturist.
Since you seem to be at an impasse... is there ANYTHING about this scripture that any of you reject? Especially the highlighted areas of "first importance". I would suggest that THIS is indeed that Good News that was preached from town to town.
I Corinthians 15:1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. NIV
Let's look at Peter's first sermon. I believe you can see the very same elements in here:
Acts 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25David said about him:
" 'I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will live in hope,
27 because you will not abandon me to the grave,
nor will you let your Holy One see decay.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.' 29 "Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
35 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet." '
36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" NIV
When you look at the response of the people, it is OBVIOUS that he preached the essence of the Gospel. This is the Gospel, the Good news of Jesus Christ. It is indeed the Gospel of Grace and not of works.
I would say that if you both teach this, then you agree on the Gospel.
Since you seem to be at an impasse... is there ANYTHING about this scripture that any of you reject? Especially the highlighted areas of "first importance". I would suggest that THIS is indeed that Good News that was preached from town to town.
I Corinthians 15:1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. NIV
Let's look at Peter's first sermon. I believe you can see the very same elements in here:
Acts 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25David said about him:
" 'I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will live in hope,
27 because you will not abandon me to the grave,
nor will you let your Holy One see decay.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.' 29 "Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
35 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet." '
36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" NIV
When you look at the response of the people, it is OBVIOUS that he preached the essence of the Gospel. This is the Gospel, the Good news of Jesus Christ. It is indeed the Gospel of Grace and not of works.
I would say that if you both teach this, then you agree on the Gospel.
Scott1
Well-Known Member
Amen and amen Pete... that's why I love and respect your faith... nothing quasi-Catholic.... no appeals to history or traditions.... just pure scripture.... and yes, that's much more "sola" than the "sola scriptura" crowd I've met here.
Fish-Hunter
Rejoice in the Lord!
Hi Mister Emu,
I have to respectfully disagree with your conclusion. What a believe can be summarized with the Cambridge Declaration: Historic Church Documents at Reformed.org
Please read, study and pray about what is being said in the Cambridge Declaration. Contemporary Protestantism has much to repent before the Christian world too. However, the central issue of the Protestant Reformation is the recovery of the gospel of God's grace which the Roman Catholic Church left. I think the Roman Catholic document of the Council of Trent clarifies that the Protestant proclamation of the gospel is different than the Roman Catholic gospel. In addition, the Westminster Confession of Faith and the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 also declares that the Roman Catholic gospel is mutually exclusive than the historic Protestant gospel.
Both teach that God became man, died and was ressurected to reconcile us with God. Both teach salvation by God's grace through Jesus.
Scott1
Well-Known Member
What does this mean to you:
THE CAMBRIDGE DECLARATION
Thesis One: Sola Scriptura
"We deny that any creed, council or individual may bind a Christian's conscience, that the Holy Spirit speaks independently of or contrary to what is set forth in the Bible, or that personal spiritual experience can ever be a vehicle of revelation."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thesis Four: Sola Fide
"Justification is by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone. This is the article by which the church stands or falls. "
Do you agree with the above statement?
:cover:
Fish-Hunter
Rejoice in the Lord!
And the need of the word alone (5 solas). How do you discern the LDS Christian version of the gospel? Do you believe it is the same gospel of grace too shared by both historical Protestants and Orthodox Roman Catholics? I believe Scott posted that the Roman Catholic Church does not accept LDS' baptism when an LDS converts to Rome. On the other hand, I believe the Roman Catholic Church accepts a Protestant's baptism when converting to Rome.
Scripture clearly teaches of false Christs, false gospels, false apostles, false prophets, and false teachers, and damnable false doctrine. Don't you think Satan attacks within the church since that those who are in the world and in the flesh belong to him? I believe Satan revealed his battle plan in Genesis 3, undermining the Word of God. Jesus warned the church about wolves in sheep's clothing...which is an internal attack in the visible church.
Fish-Hunter
Rejoice in the Lord!
Sure, I believe the 5 solas of the Protestant Reformation are significant truths for all Reformed and non-reformed Christians. Sola Scriptura does not mean that you read and study scripture only. It means that Scripture is the light to test all things. Scripture is the standard and not sacred tradition or apostolic succession or prophet succession. If you consider Ephesians 4, God gives the church gifted teachers who have expounded the truth. However, how are you personally determine which extra-biblical sources are from God or from the enemy? Even within gifted teachers from God, all God's children know in part and error somewhere in life and doctrine. What is your ultimate source of authority of truth? The basis of the Protestant Reformation is Scripture over the Roman Catholic Magestrium as determining the truth and the will of God. The essential issue was and still is the biblical gospel of God's grace...to the praise of His glorious grace.
The two main issues which divide Rome and historical Protestants are:
1. Final authority - Scripture or Roman Catholic Magestrium
2. The Biblical doctrine of justification (Rom 3 and 4, Galatians).
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
I just Googled and read the "Cambridge Declaration". How alarming. I don't think I have read anything quite so legalistic and I know I have never read anything that propagates legalism so thoroughly. Perhaps we should have a discussion on how this document perverts scripture to promote legalism? Of course, that would be another thread.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I think fish hunter is setting up a straw man. And he has yet to discuss, in any detail, just what his own understanding of "gospel of grace" entails, and just what it is that informs that understanding.
Jesus went about the countryside preaching, "Turn your lives around, because God's kingdom has come near." That's the gospel. The kingdom has come near. We've been reconciled by the Incarnation of God with us. Everything else is corollary to that.
Jesus went about the countryside preaching, "Turn your lives around, because God's kingdom has come near." That's the gospel. The kingdom has come near. We've been reconciled by the Incarnation of God with us. Everything else is corollary to that.
Fish-Hunter
Rejoice in the Lord!
Do you throw out the 13 Epistles of Paul and receive only the writings of Jesus to understand the gospel of God's grace? I believe the entire Bible needs to be received as truth, including James chapter 2.