Christian: RCC-Prot Gospel

[Scott1]

Wow... all this time I've been asking the wrong questions... oh well.

Grace is God's favor on the undeserving which has been merited or earned by the life and death of Jesus Christ on behalf of those who believe.

Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. CCC #1996

Grace is only free to the sinner, but the eternal cost was the death of God's Son.

Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. CCC #1992

Those who receive this grace are being transformed, therefore grace can also be called transforming grace.

Sanctifying grace is the gratuitous gift of his life that God makes to us; it is infused by the Holy Spirit into the soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. CCC #2023

Even the unbeliever receives the grace of God, receivng the underdeserving gift of life and breath for another day. God would be completly holy and just to judge mankind today.

"If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me" (Mt 16:24). CCC #2029

Hmmmm....

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Wow... all this time I've been asking the wrong questions... oh well.

Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. CCC #1996

Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. CCC #1992

Sanctifying grace is the gratuitous gift of his life that God makes to us; it is infused by the Holy Spirit into the soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. CCC #2023

"If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me" (Mt 16:24). CCC #2029

Hmmmm....

Hi Scott,

I will try to limit my time of this site; therefore I plan on not discussing these things with you on this forum site. But come join me at studylightforums.org since it is an all Christian website. I think you would enjoy it.

 

[Scott1]

Sure thing my friend... just waiting for Admin approval.

 

[Mister Emu]

And the need of the word alone (5 solas).

I can agree with Sola Gratia, Solus Christus, and Sola Deo Gloria on the surface of the terms themselves... but not Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura which are both not only invisible in the scripture, but are rejected by it.

Of course I believe satan attacks the Church, however, as Jesus said, the gates of hell will never prevail against her

 

[Scuba Pete]

Did you realize that Charisma came from the Greek word for Grace, Charis, and that it had pretty much the same meaning. No not the meaning you gave us: those are merely attributes of God's Grace. When you grow in the Grace of God, it means you are becoming JUST LIKE HIM. That's why Jesus was full of Grace and Truth: he WAS God. Grace =Godly Charisma. Don't get it confused with worldly charisma either!It's the actual essence of God.

No, you can't earn Grace: it is indeed free. It only costs you your entire life. In my case that wasn't worth anything at all. Growing in Grace is WHY you need the Spirit of God living within you.

II Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. NIV

If you want to emulate God's Charisma, you are going to have to let the Spirit TRANSFORM you. In order to let the Spirit have it's way, you'll have to learn to trust it and live by what it communicates to you. You can't understand the scriptures without the Spirit revealing them to you, and the Spirit won't give you more direction than you are willing to deal with. The Spirit is patient and will allow you to figure out whatever it's trying to change in you first before giving you another challenge.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I will try to limit my time of this site;

Why? Are there too many people here who know scripture???

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Why? Are there too many people here who know scripture???

LOL...this is one enjoyable and entertaining religious forum site. Many of the professing Christians are quite liberal on this site. Why do you hang out on this site, and not at a Christian forum site? I still believe the god of this site is the religious pluarlism god that this site has created. It is the idol of our generation.

 

[Scuba Pete]

LOL...this is one enjoyable and entertaining religious forum site.

It can be.

Many of the professing Christians are quite liberal on this site.

Interesting. I am not nearly as liberal with scripture as you seem to be. I refuse to add to it or to take away from it. You on the other hand hold to teachings that are clearly not in scripture. Of course you might mean that I am generous to a fault and all of my friends would agree with you.

Why do you hang out on this site, and not at a Christian forum site?

You really don't know, do you?

Philemon 1:6 I pray that you may be active in sharing your faith, so that you will have a full understanding of every good thing we have in Christ. 7 Your love has given me great joy and encouragement, because you, brother, have refreshed the hearts of the saints. NIV

I still believe the god of this site is the religious pluarlism god that this site has created. It is the idol of our generation.

You really, really don't get it, now do you?

I Corinthians 9:19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings. NIV

I take my lead from Jesus. He also was a "rouge" to the religious leaders of his time. He was labeled as a "liberal": a friend of SINNERS no less. In fact, while it is almost a given that he went to temple, he made a point of hanging out with EVERYONE. Why??? Because he LOVED them. No, not a bogus "I am saving you" love, but real relationships and serving them in ways that they can see and appreciate.

Matthew 11:16 "To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others:
17 " 'We played the flute for you,
and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge
and you did not mourn.' 18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' But wisdom is proved right by her actions." NIV

So, if you come hear thinking that you already KNOW all of the answers, your surprise will be great. We have more than our share of scholars and lovers that will not only give you food for thought, but will challenge your very core beliefs. If you are not mature enough in your faith to be able to deal with smart and opinionated people from all faiths, then this place is not for you and it's your loss. However, if you truly want to learn about ALL religions, including your own, then there is probably no better venue than RF. Really, really.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

So, if you come hear thinking that you already KNOW all of the answers, your surprise will be great. We have more than our share of scholars and lovers that will not only give you food for thought, but will challenge your very core beliefs. If you are not mature enough in your faith to be able to deal with smart and opinionated people from all faiths, then this place is not for you and it's your loss. However, if you truly want to learn about ALL religions, including your own, then there is probably no better venue than RF. Really, really.

All regenerate Christians are sinners in process and know in part.

 

[sojourner]

All regenerate Christians are sinners in process and know in part.

What aobut degenerate Christians?

 

[Scuba Pete]

What aobut degenerate Christians?

I think he calls them "Liberal" Christians.

 

[sojourner]

Hi Scuba Pete,

I think it would be wiser for me to spend my time discussing things on the LDS threads. I wish you well Scuba Pete. All I can say is that Christianity is being saved into a body of Christ. We were not to designed to be lone-ranger Christian. You cannot be your own elder, deacon, overseer, and teacher wrapped in one.

You've got him all wrong. Pete isn't a lone-ranger Christian. He just refuses to be put in a box by the rest of us. He blows about by the wind of the Spirit. It's frustrating, because he's difficult to pin down by our usual methods. But he's bang on in his approach to putting the scriptural tenets into practice, precisely because of his openness to the Spirit. We need people like this in the Church!

 

[sojourner]

I think he calls them "Liberal" Christians.

Hmmm... "giving freely; generous; abundant." Isn't that sort of a good description of Jesus? I'll be part of that degeneration!

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Hmmm... "giving freely; generous; abundant." Isn't that sort of a good description of Jesus? I'll be part of that degeneration!

You guys make me laugh, and I thank you for that. I guess it's easier to fellowship as left wing Christians on a religious pluralism forum site than an all Christian forum site. Who is going to rescue us from this body of death?

 

[Scuba Pete]

He just refuses to be put in a box by the rest of us.

There's a box?

Hmmm... "giving freely; generous; abundant." Isn't that sort of a good description of Jesus? I'll be part of that degeneration!

Yah, me too!

I used to have REAL issues with "other" denominations: I just didn't believe them to be a part of Christianity. I was not "non-denominational" as much as I was "anti-denominational". I used to FIRMLY believe in the inerrancy of the scriptures until one Bible study about 3 or 4 years ago. The guy I was studying with asked me were the scriptures claimed to be so. I simply couldn't find it. So, at the very next Bible study at church, I posed this question to the professional men's group I was a part of. Wow. NO ONE could come up with a scripture. So for the next six weeks, we studied the scriptures and covered topics such as what is the Word of God, Inerrancy, Usefulness, and the like. That series changed my entire outlook, and explained quite a few contradictions I was seeing.

So, for nigh on to four years, the scriptures have been given their proper role in my life: not as a rule book, but as the means to provoke thought and to allow the Spirit to transform me. I have learned them so much better now that I know how they are supposed to work in my life. Yes, I did leave that church over their doctrine of WWJB. However, I have finally found a home in the Altamonte Chapel and though it has it's shortcomings, I am beginning to love it more and more.

The major fall out of my realigning of the scriptures in my life has been a marked decrease in my intolerance for those who understand the scriptures differently than I do. Rather than perceiving us as different bodies, I am starting to see us all as one body with one head, yet with different roles.

 

[sojourner]

You guys make me laugh, and I thank you for that. I guess it's easier to fellowship as left wing Christians on a religious pluralism forum site than an all Christian forum site. Who is going to rescue us from this body of death?

The attitude displayed in this post is a prime example of why I do not participate in "all-Christian" forums. I've tried three. They're mean and judgmental toward anyone who expresses a viewpoint different than theirs. In fact, I was kicked off one just for saying that I believe that God loves everyone, even homosexuals. Imagine being kicked off an "all Christian" forum for touting God's love! It is easier to fellowship when you're not being poked with a religious stick and shunned for your firmly-held beliefs.

Fact is, this is a forum that embraces people of all (or no) religion for the purposes of discussing and debating religious ideas and issues. And we are welcome to present ourselves as we are, without having to lie or cover up.

My question to you is, what would you do with a liberal Jesus who joined an "all Christian" forum, and expressed a view that homosexuals were OK, that Roman Catholics were good Christians, and that the Bible was not inerrant?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Maybe they should rewrite John for us Sojourner.

The Religious Right's Paraphrased Gospel:

For God so loved the world (except Gays and any others who don't feel the way we do) that he gave his only begotten Son. That whoever believes in him (except Gays, Catholics, LDSers, Scuba Pete, Sojourner and a few others) should have eternal life (which is full of hate and bitterness towards those who question the modern day Pharisees of this world).

 

[sojourner]

These are folks who "preach the cross," but they completely forget that the story didn't end there. Or maybe they've been watching too much Jesus Christ Superstar. The whole point of the cross is the freedom that comes from resurrection. Apparently, we're all just supposed to hang there, because we choose to love people and place our hope in the abundant (liberal) life Christ came to give us.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

The attitude displayed in this post is a prime example of why I do not participate in "all-Christian" forums. I've tried three. They're mean and judgmental toward anyone who expresses a viewpoint different than theirs. In fact, I was kicked off one just for saying that I believe that God loves everyone, even homosexuals. Imagine being kicked off an "all Christian" forum for touting God's love! It is easier to fellowship when you're not being poked with a religious stick and shunned for your firmly-held beliefs.

Fact is, this is a forum that embraces people of all (or no) religion for the purposes of discussing and debating religious ideas and issues. And we are welcome to present ourselves as we are, without having to lie or cover up.

My question to you is, what would you do with a liberal Jesus who joined an "all Christian" forum, and expressed a view that homosexuals were OK, that Roman Catholics were good Christians, and that the Bible was not inerrant?

Well...I would have to test the spirits to see if the liberal Jesus was the true and living Jesus found in the Bible alone. I guess we are commanded to do this, because there are many false Christs and anti-Christs that are in the world. If the Bible cannot be trusted as revelation from God, then all 6 billion views in the world are equally valid. The world would be blinded by the darkness.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I guess I just don't understand why you guys kill the Spirit in your lives? Why don't you allow the Spirit to reveal God to you as the scriptures say they will? Don't you believe the scriptures ENOUGH to trust them on this?