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Christian Teens Beheaded

The Black Whirlwind

Well-Known Member
Pah said:
Put some numbers to that. Show us your statement has credibility rather than just being anti-muslim.
what, you want me to tell you the sura? Its somewhere in The Cow, i dug it up for some other thread months ago, and a couple others. Christians dont go around bombing people and lopping off people's heads. Muslims do do that. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of attacks that are Islam-based.
 

Pah

Uber all member
It's not that Sunstone and I challange opinion - that's for debate. We would just like to know how much credibily to assign to your opinion. We hope that there is evidence for you to have the opinion you two hold
 

Pah

Uber all member
Fat Kat Matt said:
what, you want me to tell you the sura? Its somewhere in The Cow, i dug it up for some other thread months ago, and a couple others. Christians dont go around bombing people and lopping off people's heads. Muslims do do that. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of attacks that are Islam-based.
Sounds like the opinion is not credible - just an exagerrated, emotional response. We want authenticated numbers not verses from sacred texts. Your opinion that Christians "dont go around bombing people" is in fact wrong and still doesn't provide authentic scope for the numbers you spout.
 

Pah

Uber all member
This thread more properly belongs in Debate - it started with posts #11 and #15
 

Pah

Uber all member
Fat Kat Matt said:
oh really? How about some numbers for that? Hmm? you got any?
In response to "Christians dont go around bombing people"

http://www.google.com/search?q=ira+...ient=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

Pick any site - take all the sites and total the numbers.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/islterm.htm
After Timothy McVeigh parked a rental truck loaded with explosives in front of the Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City, and perpetrated the most deadly terrorist attack on American soil up until that time, he was simply identified as a terrorist. McVeigh:
bullet Was a member of the Roman Catholic Church at the time of the bombing. 1 ( "Timothy McVeigh," NNDB, at: http://www.nndb.com/ )

Eric Robert Rudolph, a professed Catholic, Centennial Olympic Park bombing and -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Rudolph
Rudolph has also confessed to the bombings of an abortion clinic in the Atlanta suburb of Sandy Springs on January 16, 1997, a gay and lesbian nightclub, the Otherside Lounge, in Atlanta on February 21, 1997, injuring five, and an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama on January 29, 1998, killing officer Robert Sanderson and critically injuring nurse Emily Lyons. Rudolph's bombs were made of dynamite surrounded by nails which acted as shrapnel.

Perhaps you are too young to remember those. I've shown you "mine" now you show me "yours"
 

Pah

Uber all member
But the point is that all religions have had extremist and failure to understand the Chirstian participation makes your claim one of bigotry
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I think extremism is not so much a religious problem, as it is a human problem. There are extremists of all stripes. Some are religious and some aren't. At worse, religion is an enabler for some extremists. But I tend to believe that people who are going to be extremists would be extremists even in the absence of religion.
 

The Black Whirlwind

Well-Known Member
Pah said:
Citing a bigotted site for a number is as bad as no number. There is still no authentification of the number
It doesn't matter, the fact is that Islam has been the cause of over 3,000 attacks in the last year alone. Christianity has been the cause of, as you quote, 2, in the past five years. Christianity has a part in terrorism, but hardly any, while Islam is one of the leading sources.
 

NOTW

New Member
Sunstone said:
You cannot legitimately blame an entire religion for the actions of a few.
What if their religion "requires/order" them to do that?

Surah 9:29
"Fight against such of those who have been given the scripture until they pay the tribute (Jizya) being brought down"


Sahih Al-Bukhari
Mohammed said, "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, and whoever says, " None has the right to be worshipped but Allah , his life and property will be saved by me." (otherwise it will not). Volume 4:196

Mohammed said, " No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir (infidel)." Vol. 9:50

Surah 9:5
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait (ambush) for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity then open the way for them." (see also Surah 2:193)

Surah 5:51
"O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is one of them. Allah guideth not a people unjust."
 

Pah

Uber all member
Fat Kat Matt said:
It doesn't matter, the fact is that Islam has been the cause of over 3,000 attacks in the last year alone. Christianity has been the cause of, as you quote, 2, in the past five years. Christianity has a part in terrorism, but hardly any, while Islam is one of the leading sources.
It does matter that a site referenced is bigoted. You don't know the circumstances of the attacks and can not, with certainty, prove your statement.

Apparently you are also unedeucated about Salem Witch Trials, The Inquisition, and the many Crusades and pre-crusades. But I know you have some years to go in your schooling, so there is hope.

I'm really disappointed that you ignored the actions of the IRA.
 

The Black Whirlwind

Well-Known Member
From Jocose in an old thread:

"The Accessions

1. [8.52] In the manner of the people of Firon and those before them; they disbelieved in Allah's communications, therefore Allah destroyed them on account of their faults; surely Allah is strong, severe in requiting (evil).
2. [8.54] In the manner of the people of Firon and those before them; they rejected the communications of their Lord, therefore We destroyed them on account of their faults and We drowned Firon's people, and they were all unjust."

"The Accessions

1. [8.15] O you who believe! when you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them.
2. [8.65] O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.
3. [8.69] Eat then of the lawful and good (things) which you have acquired in war, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

"The Women

1. [4.94] O you who believe! when you go to war in Allah's way, make investigation, and do not say to any one who offers you peace: You are not a believer. Do you seek goods of this world's life! But with Allah there are abundant gains; you too were such before, then Allah conferred a benefit on you; therefore make investigation; surely Allah is aware of what you do."

"The Immunity

1. [9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

"The Dinner Table

1. [5.18] And the Jews and the Christians say: We are the sons of Allah and His beloved ones. Say: Why does He then chastise you for your faults? Nay, you are mortals from among those whom He has created, He forgives whom He pleases and chastises whom He pleases; and Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, and to Him is the eventual coming.
2. [5.41] O Apostle! let not those grieve you who strive together in hastening to unbelief from among those who say with their mouths: We believe, and their hearts do not believe, and from among those who are Jews; they are listeners for the sake of a lie, listeners for another people who have not come to you; they alter the words from their places, saying: If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, be cautious; and as for him whose temptation Allah desires, you cannot control anything for him with Allah. Those are they for whom Allah does not desire that He should purify their hearts; they shall have disgrace in this world, and they shall have a grievous chastisement in the hereafter.
3. [5.44] Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.
4. [5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
5. [5.64] And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.
6. [5.69] Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.
7. [5.82] Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly."

"Ta Ha

1. [20.71] (Firon) said: You believe in him before I give you leave; most surely he is the chief of you who taught you enchantment, therefore I will certainly cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides, and I will certainly crucify you on the trunks of the palm trees, and certainly you will come to know which of us is the more severe and the more abiding in chastising."

And some i found a while back:

[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,

The Clans:

[33.61] Cursed: wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering

The Accession:

[8.65] O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.

The Cow:

[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

The Women:

[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

[4.91] You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given.you a clear authority.
 

The Black Whirlwind

Well-Known Member
i was working up a good argument, but then i pressed back button, and it got deleted. lol.

I am not saying that Christianity is blameless, but it has reformed, and there haven't been many killings in the name of it in a long time. Islam has done no such thing, it has regressed to these filthy attacks. More people died on 9/11 than in the 36 year Ireland conflict (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/death95w.htm), more people die every day due to Islam than all 350 years of the crusades (http://www.crisismagazine.com/october2003/madden.htm). This doesn't cancel out the many christian crimes, but the numbers are mind-numbing.

And what are you going on abotu "circumstances"? do circumstances really matter when honorless dogs gundown children in the streets? do they matter when they kill helpless people? jeez.

well, goodnight. sleepy time for the fat kat.
 

Ryan2065

Well-Known Member
FKM said:
And what are you going on abotu "circumstances"? do circumstances really matter when honorless dogs gundown children in the streets? do they matter when they kill helpless people? jeez.
What about circumstances where a military presence is in someones town and a local decides to say, bomb them... A "bigoted" site more than likely will call that a crime from islam where a non-bigoted site would write that off as a war bombing...
 

Ryan2065

Well-Known Member
Pah said:
It does matter that a site referenced is bigoted. You don't know the circumstances of the attacks and can not, with certainty, prove your statement.

Apparently you are also unedeucated about Salem Witch Trials, The Inquisition, and the many Crusades and pre-crusades. But I know you have some years to go in your schooling, so there is hope.

I'm really disappointed that you ignored the actions of the IRA.
Don't forget that Hitler was Christian! :bounce
 

Pah

Uber all member
Fat Kat Matt said:
...
I am not saying that Christianity is blameless, but it has reformed, ...
Definetly not some of today's Christians and that is exactly the point. You will find "honorless dogs" in all religions.

But again, you show an ignorance of the Crusades where thouands were killed even before the Crusaders left Europe - some even beheaded and the head stuck on poles. You just don't know - but if you don't learn, it can be thought of willful ignorance just because you want to satisfy your bigotted hatred.
 
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