Christian Teens Beheaded

[Darkdale]

Citing a bigotted site for a number is as bad as no number. There is still no authentification of the number

That site is absolutely not bigoted. It's one of the few sites with the courage to document the rise in Islamic terrorism. Paying attention and education is not an act of hate, though I know you may want to lead us to believe it is.

You'll say that any site that disagrees with you is bigoted. That's the liberal argument. "Disagree with me, you're a bigot". Why do we even bother debatinging with you guys. It's hard to make it through a thread without the liberals calling everyone a bigot.

 

[Ryan2065]

That site is absolutely not bigoted. It's one of the few sites with the courage to document the rise in Islamic terrorism. Paying attention and education is not an act of hate, though I know you may want to lead us to believe it is.

The sight is not bigoted? You are sorely mistaken... Just look at the "About This Site" section of the main page, you will see what they are about!

Ever since 9/11, Americans and others have been asking, "Who are Muslims and why do they want to kill me?"

But peace is also a condition that can be brought about through subjugation, in which unbelievers are brought under the domination of Islam to live meekly as dhimmis. Regrettably, this is the sort of peace that the Qur'an and Hadiths (the Islamic traditions) teach.

This Website provides a list of attacks committed by determined Muslims in the name of their faith. We also provide news from the world of Islam and links to other sites with additional information on the religion for people that want to better understand the violence on the part of thousands and the support or apathy on the part of millions.

Islam is a broad faith and it would be wrong for anyone to stereotype Muslim individuals. Most, in fact, are perfectly fine, either in spite of Islam or because of their interpretation of it. In fact, there are exceptional Muslims whose faith gives them character - the tiny handful of Muslim-Americans, for example, who choose to tell the rest of the world that America is not a legitimate target for terrorism. They stand in sharp contrast to American groups like CAIR and MPAC, which use their influence to complain of petty grievances and inflame hatred against a country that tries hard to accommodate their faith in spite of the violence.

As you can see... It is clearly a bigoted site...If it isn't, please list the articles from this site that show islam in a positive light, or articles that talk about the more peaceful side of Islam. If the site does not give two views, and paints a group of people the way this done does, it is bigoted.

You'll say that any site that disagrees with you is bigoted. That's the liberal argument. "Disagree with me, you're a bigot". Why do we even bother debatinging with you guys. It's hard to make it through a thread without the liberals calling everyone a bigot.

This site is at least extremely one sided, and what pushes it over the edge, into the "bigot" section is the fact that they paint Islam for something it is not. I say this is on par with "godhatesfags.com" as completely bigoted and unjust and does nothing but give people a false impression of Islam.

 

[Darkdale]

This site is at least extremely one sided, and what pushes it over the edge, into the "bigot" section is the fact that they paint Islam for something it is not. I say this is on par with "godhatesfags.com" as completely bigoted and unjust and does nothing but give people a false impression of Islam.

It is extremely one sided. It's not a site on social commentary or religious debate. It's a site specifically designed to monitor the rise of militant Islamic Fascism. It's soul focus is to document the rising violence of extremist Islamic groups. It's not bigoted. It doesn't preach hatred or intolerance of Muslims or anyone else for that matter; but it is one sided and it does raise questions as to who the Islamic Leadership really is and it does point out the deafening silence of the vast Muslim community in the face of increased terrorism. Just because you may (and I don't know that this is true... so I am not saying it is) join them in their silence, justifications for violence or apathy or support of terrorism doesn't make this site bigoted.

 

[Ryan2065]

but it is one sided and it does raise questions as to who the Islamic Leadership really is and it does point out the deafening silence of the vast Muslim community in the face of increased terrorism.

Did you miss the post where i linked a site that had links to over a hundred muslim groups/leaders who publically came out against terrorism?

Just because you may (and I don't know that this is true... so I am not saying it is) join them in their silence, justifications for violence or apathy or support of terrorism doesn't make this site bigoted.

The site uses colorful language to make it seem like most muslims support the terrorists when this is simply not the case. The site reads as if the religion of Islam is ONLY about war and about nothing else. It poses that terrorists are the norm in Islam and the peacful ones are hardly found anywhere... Those are bigoted views.

 

[Darkdale]

Did you miss the post where i linked a site that had links to over a hundred muslim groups/leaders who publically came out against terrorism?

The site uses colorful language to make it seem like most muslims support the terrorists when this is simply not the case. The site reads as if the religion of Islam is ONLY about war and about nothing else. It poses that terrorists are the norm in Islam and the peacful ones are hardly found anywhere... Those are bigoted views.

The site doesn't read as if the religion of Islam is ONLY about war and it doesn't state that terrorists are the norm. The question is whether or not Terrorism is frowned about by the vast majority of Muslims and the answers aren't conclusive. Depending on where you poll, large minorities of Muslims would not turn in a member of their mosque if they knew they were plotting an attack, large minorities believe that killing Jews and Westerners is OK under Islam and large minorities believe that Islam should be the ONLY religion in the world. But, what we actually see, is a relative absence of action on the part of Muslims to reduce or oppose the Islamic Fascist movement.

It is important for western society to pay close attention to activities of militant muslims and to the deafening silence of the majority.

I don't believe most Muslims are terrorists, but I do believe that most Muslims sympathize with the terrorists; and that is not to mean necessarily supportive of it. I think these are turbulent times and it is important to pay attention to what is happening, instead of ignoring.

Would you have us ignore terrorism? The rise of Islamic Fascism in Egypt, Syria and Iran? The dangers of nuclear war between Israel and Iran, or between Pakistan and India... over religion? The growing anti-semitism in Europe and America? Or the general apathy toward all these things in the Western World?

The current state of the Islamic Religion ought not to be defined by the actions of terrorists, they ought to be defined by the courageous majority of Muslims demanding an end to the violence... but there is no such courageous majority... there is no such Islamic movement against the terrorists. So it falls to the hands of The Western Governments to do something about it. I don't want to be a Muslim and I don't want to live under Islamic law. I want the freedom to practice whatever religion I so desire. That minority of Muslims that disagree with my right to freedom of religion are the Muslims who are out there moving their agenda forward. The majority of Muslims who may respect my right to freedom of religion have done next to nothing to protect it. Instead, they sympathize with the terrorists, they express bigoted points of view about the Jews from the pulpits in their mosques and the blackboards of their schools, and many sit in silence while men, women and children are slaughtered in the name of their god.

This is not bigotry. This prudence. This caution. This is a desire for justice, equality and peace.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

What's happened in Islam to make you think it has been regressing for the last 50 years?

I'm not really sure if Islam has been regressing for the last 50 years. Certainly, Islam has a lot of catching up to do in terms of religious tolerance. Here are some interesting facts I found on religioustolerance.org on Egypt, Afghanistan, Algeria, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, and Turkmenistan:
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]According to the International Coptic Federation, the situation facing Copts in Egypt has worsened over the past three decades.

[/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]As of mid-NOV-2000, the Alliance is cooperating with the United Nations in the development of a new government for the country. Hopefully it will guarantee at least minimal religious and other freedoms to the citizens of Afghanistan.

[/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]In 1991-92, a federal election was held in Algeria. The results of the first round of elections showed that the fundamentalist Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) would win by a landslide. It was their intent to establish an Islamic State. The army took over the government of the country, annulled the election and created a military dictatorship. This triggered a period of unrest which has continued to the present time. The FIS was banned in 1992. It has since "splintered into different factions, some of them * such as the Armed Islamic Movement (MIA), Salvation Islamic Army (AIS), and Armed Islamic Group (GIA) - advocating and using violence." (1)

[/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Indonesia has about 210 million people of whom about 90% are Muslim. There are many Christian enclaves in the country. Indonesia had been noted for its relatively high level of religious tolerance, until recent years when many conflicts between Muslims and Christians have occurred.

[/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica][In Pakistan] An old blasphemy law, which was written in 1927 during during colonial days, banned insults directed against any religion. In 1986, dictator General Zia-Ul Haw modified the law to protect only Islam. The law require a life imprisonment or a life sentence for anyone who defiled the name of Muhammad or committed other blasphemy. In 1990, a religious court ruled that the penalty for crimes under the law (Section 295-C of the country's Constitution) is execution.

[/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Saudi Arabia has essentially no separation between religion and government. Their citizens enjoy little religious freedom. Its constitution lacks the type of guarantees found in the U.S. and Canadian constitutions. The country is under a particularly repressive interpretation of Islamic Sharia law, which forbids Christian worship, literature, wearing of crosses, owning Bibles etc, anywhere in the country. Other non-Islamic religions are similarly oppressed.

[/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Turkmenistan is an independent republic. It was once part of the USSR, but received its independence in 1991-OCT-27. It is located to the east of the Caspian Sea, north of Iran. The main religion in the country is Sunni Muslim. The 10% Russian minority are mostly Atheists and Christians.[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The country's constitution guarantees religious freedom. However the government's Council for Religious Affairs and the secret police have discouraged Protestant missionary activity since independence. 1[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Essentially all Protestant churches in the country have been redefined as illegal organizations as a result of a recent presidential decree. 2 The government in Ashkebad now requires a religious organization to have a minimum of 500 members before it can be recognized by the state and given official status. Only the Russian Orthodox Church has been so recognized by the end of 1997. Seventh-Day Adventists, Baptists, Greater Grace, Pentecostals and others were considered illegal. Their situation improved in 2004 when the government allowed smaller faith groups to register.[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Between 1997-MAR to 1997-JUN, the leaders of all of the non-Orthodox congregations were interrogated by the police and ordered to stop their activities. University students have been threatened by expulsion if they continue to attend church and proselytize.[/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica][/font]

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I think extremism is not so much a religious problem, as it is a human problem. There are extremists of all stripes. Some are religious and some aren't. At worse, religion is an enabler for some extremists. But I tend to believe that people who are going to be extremists would be extremists even in the absence of religion.

I absolutely agree with you, Sunstone. One problem is exactly what we mean by "Islam". Like all religions, Islam has evolved and changed dramatically since the time of the Prophet. We can't ignore the fact that, whatever we percieve a religion to be, its believers have their own interpretation which usually is more in tune with their current perceptions than actually adhering to original principles (which are often plagued by later insertions and vague or contradictory passages), and they also simply dismiss many old teachings as "yes, that was back then, but what God *really* wants us to do now is..." So for example, even though the Qu'ran or the hadiths may explicitly call Muslims to subjugate the infidels, many modern Muslims (like in the US or France) embrace religious equality. Similarly, even though the New Testament clearly condemns violence, that didn't stop later Christians from being violent.

So in the end, it's not really about the characteristics of "Islam", because Islam is constantly changing (like all other religions): what it's really about is the culture, politics, and society of people who choose to interpret Islam as this or that.

That said, there simply is no denying that violence is rooted in both Islamic tradition and scripture--perhaps more so than Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism--making violent interpretations of Islam relatively easy for those who wish to do so. Of those four religions (with the exception of Judaism), Islam is the only one whose central figure (Muhammad) was the leader of military conquest. Many modern Muslims, in an attempt to rationalize Islam with modern concepts of secular government and religious tolerance, re-interpret, ignore, or downplay these aspects of Islam, and I think they should be commended for doing so, just as Christians or Jews should be commended for de-emphasizing the primitive aspects of their traditions (anti-semitism, stoning homosexuals, geocentrism, etc).

I certainly have nothing against Muslims, or even Islam per se, but I think what I've said above is accurate, at least as far as my limited education (I'm taking a course right now which focuses on Islam) brings me. My professor specializes in Medieval Islamic history, and he clearly has a deep appreciation for the religion and Middle East culture in general; but when you admire something, you accept the bad in it as well as the good. And again, it's impossible to discuss what "Islam" or any religion is "really" about; all we can say is how its believers interpret it in light of their modern conceptions.

 

[FFH]

the religion of peace strikes again.

Is this the truth or what

This statement speaks to me so loudly. I was just tninking about this.

DOES ANYBODY HEAR THIS ??????? DOES ANYBODY SEE THIS ???????

Oh it's ok to behead a christian as long as it brings peace to the world.

They think that by killing a christian that it will bring peace to their souls. It only adds to the torment they were already feeling

Land for peace is another FALSE PEACE. The jews think that by giving away more land that they will be given more peace. In reality it only brings upon the Jews more torment from their tormenters.

For when they shall say, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child, and they shall not escape.
1 Thessalonians. 5: 3

We must fight against all those that are opposed to christianity or God in any form. We must not give in to the enemy. This is what Bush is fighting for. Religious freedom in Iraq. Why are so many people against the President for fighting for this.

 

[Sunstone]

I think a strong case could be made for saying that Buddhism has historically, of all the world's major religions, been the most peaceful. For instance, I cannot recall more than 2 or 3 wars in the history of Buddhism that were fought for religious reasons, and it might even be stretching it to suggest that those wars were indeed fought for religious reasons.

The Great Middle Eastern religions, on the other hand, have histories markedly more fraught with bloodshed than Buddhism. I wonder why that is so?

Furthermore, it seems to me that Christianity and Judaism have distanced themselves from bloodshed somewhat more than Islam. But this may be a skewed perception based on reading too much popular media, and not spending enough time with reliable scholarship.

These are just some random thoughts I have on the issue of this thread.

 

[FFH]

That site is absolutely not bigoted. It's one of the few sites with the courage to document the rise in Islamic terrorism. Paying attention and education is not an act of hate, though I know you may want to lead us to believe it is.

You'll say that any site that disagrees with you is bigoted. That's the liberal argument. "Disagree with me, you're a bigot". Why do we even bother debatinging with you guys. It's hard to make it through a thread without the liberals calling everyone a bigot.

Amen Amen Amen

DOES ANYBODY SEE THIS, IS EVERYONE ASLEEP

Wake up everybody Darkdale is making sense. We cannot sleep and assume when we wake up that all will be OK in the morning. Bush is fighting a war right now against terrorism in it's rawest form. Now America is beginning to hate Bush for this. Thank God for the Bush's of this world who stand up and fight against terrorism in any form.

Terrorism can be so suttle that we do not recognize it. We only wake up to terrorism when people die. When will we wake up to terrorism and fight it before more people die in the name of a religion.

 

[FFH]

but i can find verses in the Koran that clearly state to kill the infidels. allah said it is okay. it is hypocritical.

This is the stuff that makes people say that Allah is not God but is some other being other than God. God would not oppose God. Satan does not oppose Satan. The Quran is a suttle trick of the Devil to decieve as many peplee as possible into thinking they are worshipping God. Why would God endorse such a book like the Quran???? It does not make sense.

Extremists are taking this verse and using it in the name of God or Allah.

I know there are extremists in every religion. I am not just poking at the Muslims. I am talking about killing in the name of God. Should not the Muslims in the eastern world stand up and fight terrorism as hard as the christians in the western world.

This would certainly stomp out any doubts that the Muslims sympathize with or condone the terrorist acts in the name of Islam. I know there are Muslims who put on the U.S. military uniform and I know there are peaceful Muslims as there are peaceful people in every religion. I am not about hate or war or bigotry or anything like that. I only want to sleep at night and not have to worry about these extremists taking over the world in the name of a religion and justifying it in the name of God. I will not sit back and just watch it happen. If it comes down to someone taking my life in the name of their God I will definitely stand up and fight only in the defense of my life. I would never be the aggressor. I am sure that none of us here would ever start a "Holy War" , but we would certainly defend ourselves against all those who declare a "Holy War" against us.

 

[FFH]

I know subtle not suttle. People not peplee.
I don't have time to correct all typos....too much going on in this sight not enough time to read all posts and correct typos.

 

[The Black Whirlwind]

Definetly not some of today's Christians and that is exactly the point. You will find "honorless dogs" in all religions.

But again, you show an ignorance of the Crusades where thouands were killed even before the Crusaders left Europe - some even beheaded and the head stuck on poles. You just don't know - but if you don't learn, it can be thought of willful ignorance just because you want to satisfy your bigotted hatred.

HA HA HA LOL. Bigotted hatred? :biglaugh: You REALLY need to get your head checked. :biglaugh:Of course the crusades killed people, theres no denying it, and i haven't. But christianity has reformed, Islam has regressed.

 

[The Black Whirlwind]

Definetly not some of today's Christians and that is exactly the point. You will find "honorless dogs" in all religions.

But again, you show an ignorance of the Crusades where thouands were killed even before the Crusaders left Europe - some even beheaded and the head stuck on poles. You just don't know - but if you don't learn, it can be thought of willful ignorance just because you want to satisfy your bigotted hatred.

this is the problem with people if you say ANYTHING against Islam. "Oh, you are such a bigot, you found sura's that say to kill infidels, you found over 3000 attacks int he last year, but oh, you're still a bigot because you are denouncing Islam!". My job as Jedi is to view the world critically, and all things in it. It is one of our responsibilities. If you think I'm a bigot, fine, there's not much i can do to turn you from your liberal conditioning.

 

[Yerda]

My job as Jedi is to view the world critically, and all things in it....there's not much i can do to turn you from your liberal conditioning.

The irony.

 

[Ryan2065]

From your prescious site that is not so bigoted...

This list, of over 3,000 terrorist attacks committed by Muslims since 9/11/01 (a rate better than two per day), is incomplete because only a small percentage of attacks were picked up by international news sources, even those involving multiple loss of life. We included an attack if it was committed by Muslims in the name of Islam, and usually only if loss of life occurred (with a handful of exceptions where there were a very large number of injuries).

For 1, it is 3000 since 9/11... For two, here are some things that made it on this list...

An Israeli soldier is shot in the head by Palestinian gunmen while making an arrest. Soliders noticed suspicious movement nearby, but hesitated for fear of hitting civilians.

A soldier shot while making an arrest... Yea, sounds like that was done in the name of Allah....

Hrm... I started to try and check news sites to verify some of these "claims" they make with the 3000 attacks... and I cannot find many of them anywhere.... I wonder why they do not link them....

And I LOVE how all those in favor of saying "Oh, Muslims do not say that terrorism is bad" have just dodged my post of over 100 major Muslim figures and sects that have denounced terrorism...

Love how that dodging of the question works.

 

[Ryan2065]

Another interesting read...

http://islam.about.com/cs/currentevents/a/9_11statements.htm

In the aftermath of the violence and horror of 9/11, criticisms were made that Muslim leaders and organizations were not outspoken enough in denouncing acts of terrorism. Muslims are constantly perplexed by this accusation, as we heard (and continue to hear) nothing but unequivocal and unified condemnations by the leaders of our community, both in the United States and worldwide. But for some reason, people are not listening.

I wonder who is not listening...

 

[Darkdale]

And I LOVE how all those in favor of saying "Oh, Muslims do not say that terrorism is bad" have just dodged my post of over 100 major Muslim figures and sects that have denounced terrorism...

There is a difference between saying you are against something and actually doing anything about it. The world looks for action, not meaningless words.

 

[Ryan2065]

There is a difference between saying you are against something and actually doing anything about it. The world looks for action, not meaningless words.

Hrm... Thats interesting...

First, your argument is...

ut it is one sided and it does raise questions as to who the Islamic Leadership really is and it does point out the deafening silence of the vast Muslim community in the face of increased terrorism.

The question is whether or not Terrorism is frowned about by the vast majority of Muslims and the answers aren't conclusive.

The current state of the Islamic Religion ought not to be defined by the actions of terrorists, they ought to be defined by the courageous majority of Muslims demanding an end to the violence... but there is no such courageous majority... there is no such Islamic movement against the terrorists.

The majority of Muslims who may respect my right to freedom of religion have done next to nothing to protect it. Instead, they sympathize with the terrorists, they express bigoted points of view about the Jews from the pulpits in their mosques and the blackboards of their schools, and many sit in silence while men, women and children are slaughtered in the name of their god.

Looks like the meat of your argument at first was "the rest of the muslims are in silence" and now the argument turns to "muslims aren't doing enough about it"

Also, I wanted to address a certain point...

Depending on where you poll, large minorities of Muslims would not turn in a member of their mosque if they knew they were plotting an attack, large minorities believe that killing Jews and Westerners is OK under Islam and large minorities believe that Islam should be the ONLY religion in the world. But, what we actually see, is a relative absence of action on the part of Muslims to reduce or oppose the Islamic Fascist movement.

1. Thats nice that it depends on where you poll, and not, you know, random polls.
2. "large minorities" what does this mean? many of the minority?
3. Again the argument "absence of action on the part of Muslims to reduce or oppose the Islamic Fascist movement."

So do you have any actual evidence to back up what you say or are you just blowing smoke?

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

I know I have said this before, but it bears repeating. Darkdale for President!!!!

Amazing how many Islamic apologists we run into on the internet. These same terrorists you
love to defend so much, if given their way would love to bring the entire world under Sha'ria.
Even you liberal terrorist lovers.

Life under Islamic Fundamentalist law would not be the jolly happy place you seem to think it would be. No internet, no education for women, no music, no art, no literature, no television, no movies, the entire world regressing back to what life was like in 7th Century on the Arabian Peninsula.

Not to mention the murder of christians and jews, the removal of the clitoris from your wife, your mother, your sister, and your daughter, the removal of their labia, all done while they are horrifyingly aware, only to have their mutilated bodies sewed up. And lets not forget, we are doing all these wonderful things because of this wonderful religion of peace.

I know I am going to be called a bigot, anti-Islam, and whatever other names you folks come up with for those who don't like the idea of living under Muslim rule. Get after it. As for me, I will not allow these things to happen to my world. Keep your radical ancient religious views away from me and my family, and don't even think about talking that "religion of peace" crap to me, when we know good and well who is behind 9/11, the U.S.S. Cole, countless bombings of civilians, and the murdering of these poor innocent schoolgirls in the name of Allah.

B.