Christian Teens Beheaded

[Darkdale]

The law of the Bibile ,alone, or good works, alone, cannot save us. Only Jesus Christ can and will save us from sin and death.

You do realize that not everyone believes we have anything we need saving from, right? I mean, I recognize your beliefs dictate that we do and it would be silly for you to think that only applies to you and not to me... but, for what it is worth, I don't think you need salvation. I don't know you at all, so I don't know what you need, but I'm quite sure it isn't that. Most of the time, people just need a purpose, or self-discipline, or self-worth... sometimes people just need healthier food, more sleep and better friends.

 

[ChrisP]

more sleep

I'll take 3 of those, and a half a pound of topside steak.

 

[BUDDY]

So you would like to see others suffer as you have ? - what a wonderfully Christian attitude, you must be very proud of yourself.

What? Do you not think that horrible things were done in the past in the name of christianity and those who did them should not be held to task on them? I don't believe that makes the whole religion bad mind you, but the fact that some people use christianity as a critch for politically motivated causes is disgusting. The difference is that most christians comeout agaisnt these acts and believe them to be bad things. We are a loud, brash lot, and if one of our own screws up and does something "in the name of God" we will be the first to speak up and say it is a load of crap. My point is, why can that same line of judgement that is made towards christianity by everyone, be used against islam as well? Why are not the Islams coming out in the same way we would about what others are doing "in the name of allah" and yet they get a pass from everyone who is not a muslim. If a christian does something bad, then it is, "what do you expect, his religion has been screwing people for two thousand years." If a muslim terrorist blows someone up, it is, "well he was a terrorist, but don't blame Islam because it is a religion of peace." It confounds me how this can be the case, but it is and you see it everytime a terrorist, in the name of allah, does something to hurt others.

You have evidence, figures ? I take it you have polled muslims in various countries, to be able to talk so knowingly ?

One in four British Muslims sympathise with London bombings.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/23/npoll23.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/07/23/ixnewstop.html

Poll finds muslim support of terrorism is on the decline, but still about half still look at it favourably, and even more have a negative opinion of Americans and Jews (vast majority in fact). Adobe file from Pew Research, throught the Washington Post.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/documents/global_attitudes.pdf

15% of muslims believe that 9/11 attacks where morally justified, while only 9% think that our invasion of Afghanistan was morally justified. (hit gallop poll results link)
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/02/26/gallup.muslims/

PALESTINIANS SUPPORT THE CEASEFIRE, NEGOTIATIONS, AND RECONCILIATION BETWEEN THE TWO PEOPLES BUT A MAJORITY OPPOSES ARRESTS AND BELIEVE THAT ARMED CONFRONTATIONS HAVE HELPED ACHIEVE NATIONAL RIGHTS
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19-24 December 2001
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<LI>Only 36% support the position taken by Arafat toward the American campaign against terror; indeed 94% oppose the US campaign against Ben Laden and his group, with only 16% believing that Ben Laden is responsible for the attacks on the World Trade Center
<LI>37% believe that there are circumstances under which the use of terrorism to achieve political goals would be justified
<LI>Only 33% support a UN international initiative to fight terrorism
<LI>An overwhelming majority, ranging between 91%-98%, views all Israeli violent acts against Palestinians as acts of terror. Yet a majority, ranging between 52%-67%, believes that the international community does not view these events as acts of terrorism.
<LI>An overwhelming majority, ranging between 81%-87%, does not view Palestinian violent acts against Israelis as acts of terrorism. Yet an overwhelming majority, ranging between 88%-92%, believes that the international community does view these acts as acts of terrorism.
<LI>41% view the attack on the Twin Towers in New York on 11 September as acts of terrorism; 46% view as terrorism the bombing of a Pan Am plan over Lockerbie, Scotland; and 63% view the distribution of Anthrax envelopes in the US as an act of terrorism.
<LI>While 94% would view as an act of terrorism a future use by Israel of chemical and biological weapons against Palestinians, only 26% would view the same act as terrorism if carried out by Palestinians against Israelis
45% of the Palestinians are concerned about a possible Israeli use of chemical and biological weapons Br>
43% believe that the 11 September Twin Towers attacks would delay a Palestinian-Israeli agreement while only 18% believe that it would speed up the process of reaching an agreement

http://www.pcpsr.org/survey/polls/2001/p3a.html#terrorism

And finally, an ever increasing number of muslims believe that those who fight to end terrorism, are wrong, bad evil, etc. In other words, the war against terrorism or the US.
http://www.ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=25950

I fyou would like, I can start quoting numerous muslim clerics and leaders who support violence. Or maybe you would like to do some of your own research.

 

[FFH]

You do realize that not everyone believes we have anything we need saving from, right? I mean, I recognize your beliefs dictate that we do and it would be silly for you to think that only applies to you and not to me... but, for what it is worth, I don't think you need salvation. I don't know you at all, so I don't know what you need, but I'm quite sure it isn't that. Most of the time, people just need a purpose, or self-discipline, or self-worth... sometimes people just need healthier food, more sleep and better friends.

I do realize that there are those who do not believe we need to be saved from anything. But there are those that would like to find a better way than what they know now. We must live outside the box and give attention to all of the Islamic faith that are crying out for a better life than the Islamic faith can give them....The killing of these three Indonesian Christian girls indicates this to me. God sent his only Son, Jesus Christ ot die for not only the three Christian girls, BUT FOR THEIR KILLERS AS WELL.

i used to think that I JUST, OR ONLY, needed a self help or motivational book or CD, more money, a sex life with a gorgeous girl, more sleep, better health, nicer car, a house with no mortgage, a trip to Hawaii, more time skiing and water skiing, or more time to enjoy the hobbies and sports that I love, etc. Now I know that all those things are fine and great and I desire all of these things and God desires these things for us as well. God desires us to have everything that we want that is good. The only thing missing in this picture is a Savior, who will Redeem us to God, in order to live with Him in heaven , so we may enjoy these things eventually in Heaven, if not on earth. If I don't get to enjoy or have all I want on earth I am assured that I will enjoy them in the life to come. This is what gets me through each day. I have a hope in Christ that someday I will be able to enjoy all that I want to enjoy. In this life it is much harder to obtain nice things and enjoy all that we want to enjoy. My hope for all that I want is not in this world. It is in the world to come. We all need a Savior to get to that world to have all that we desire. Do you want to settle for something less than what God wants for us ???? God has our best interest at heart. He is our PERFECT FATHER and desires all good things for us.

 

[Mujahid]

there's no real moslem who can do that,the "individuals"-and you have the complete right to swear as you want-who did that were CRIMINALS

 

[Steve]

I really am sorry that you feel you must convert all Islamics to your faith; I expect they are happy with theirs........in it's true form, it is just as noble as Christianity; or are you 'better' than others, because of your (our) religion ?:shout

Wouldnt you like to see that michel - All muslims come to realise that Christ died for them and made atonement for their sins?
Does Christs crucifixtion mean anything to you and how you understand salvation? Or is what Christ went through just somthing you can choose to ignor because at the end of the day it dosnt really matter if he was crucified and rose again? Do you really suppose Jesus would have went through what he did if it wasnt necessary?
I do belive christianity is better then islam! and im not ashamed to say it, aparently thats not politically correct enough for you - however i belive Christ died for me and its this atonement that can allow a sinner like me into heaven, Islam denies it.
I belive the bible when it says

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." John 14:6-7

Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:4-6
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How can you possibly call yourself a Christian and claim a religion that denies your saviour is just as noble or equal!
Do you have any convictions concerning your religion or do all your convictions lie in being politically correct and perfectly tolerant no matter what the implications.

 

[Pah]

...
I do belive christianity is better then islam! ...

From my point of view, you live in a glass house.

 

[michel]

From my point of view, you live in a glass house.

Unfortunately, I agree. (I am not sure why I said unfortunately......)

 

[Steve]

From my point of view, you live in a glass house

Unfortunately, I agree. (I am not sure why I said unfortunately......)

Why dosnt your response to my post supprise me michel?
Dont bother asking yourself the questions i posted,

"Does Christs crucifixtion mean anything to you and how you understand salvation? Or is what Christ went through just somthing you can choose to ignor because at the end of the day it dosnt really matter if he was crucified and rose again? Do you really suppose Jesus would have went through what he did if it wasnt necessary?"

What Christ went through shows us the seriousness of our situation. Perhaps you dont quite get it yet, dont talk about me living in a glass house - it seems you yourself are unwilling to belive some of the foudational doctrines clearly taught in the very book you claim to believe. In another thread you mentioned that you believe the New Testement, do you know what it teaches about salvation and being saved?

 

[Pah]

Those that focus on salavation do not focus on the love of Christ except what his death gives you. It misses entirely the command and example of a loving Jesus. Salvation is only self-interest. Being arrogant about caring for your self and not loving the infidel that Jesus loved is the house you live in. Nobody needs your idea of salvation when they have a way to God of thier own. God still has his chosen people and also the people to whom he sent a prophet. God may well be the one to throw stones at your glass house. Christ may be "a way" for you, but the love Jesus practised is universal.

 

[Ryan2065]

Wow, left for the weekend and this post has sure grown... So here are some things I would like to comment on...

I am not here saying that each and every Muslim in the world is a terrorist. However, I will say, and your poll supports the position that a disturbingly high number of them agree with terrorist's goals and tactics.

The point is not that many of them agree with the terrorists (which actually that statement is misleading seeing as it is mostly less than half that agree with the terrorists) but the point is that their numbers are going down, meaning we are getting through to them

I am hateful and bigoted (to use your terms) toward people who murder innocents in the name of their religion. I do not apologize for that. I also don't have fond feelings for those who support, or agree with those who murder and maim in the name of their religion. In my opinion, those who fall under the category of Islamic or Terrorist Apologists deserve no acclaim.

But yet you seem to think that anyone who is trying to stand up for the peaceful people of Islam is a Terrorist Apologist... which goes against your eariler statement of...

I am not here saying that each and every Muslim in the world is a terrorist.

You cannot have it both ways... If you use the words "Islam" and "Terrorist" interchangibly then you are stating that an Islam is a terrorist.

We still want answers to Islam before it is too late for the rest of us. We are only concerned about our lives and cannot sit back while Islam seems to be increasing at a faster rate than Christianity. If the peaceful Islamic people are increasing then the Islam extremists are increasing as well.

Please either back up this statement with numbers or retract it. It is a huge fallicy here (I forget the fallacys name, but it has to do with saying that because something is happening in the large group, it must be happening to everything associated with that large group.)

We all have a legitimate concern AND THAT DOES NOT MAKE US BIGOTS AND HATEFUL OF OTHER PEOPLES RELIGIONS.

No, you have an ignorant concern.

Even the military is having trouble discerning who is a terrorist and who is not.

This has to do with your neighbor how?

We do not hear an outcry from any sect of the muslim community condemning the actions of jihadist's.

Sigh... I have posted the "outcrys" numerous times... Can you not read? Or is it selective reading that you do?

I have come to the conclusion that the vast majority of those who practice Islam either agree with the terrorist acts, support the terrorist acts, committ the terrorist acts or find some sort of logic to try to understand and sympathise with the terrorist acts.

Apparently your conclusion is wrong... Even the "worst" polls put the Islam supporters total in the under 50% category (which is less than the majority) So apparently a "vast majority" is very untrue... Or do you have some polls that have not been posted yet?

Muslims burned 100 cars and several businesses in Paris, a few days ago, in protest over the death of two young muslim boys. After being chased by police, these two boys were accidently electricuted by an electric fence and died. Is this the fault of the police ???? Is this the fault of the community as a whole ????? NO yet some Muslims, in Paris, seem to blame the people of Paris for an accidental death. And if I remeber right Paris is not even involved in the Iraqi war.

Your point? How many riots break out because of sports teams winning, wars, and power outages (yes, this happens... in a power outage the security alarms of stores are not on so riots tend to break out in poor neighborhoods) I would say a riot breaking out over two kids deaths would be a better reason than the ones listed above... Yet where is your outcry for these?

Was the burning of 100 cars and several business done in the name of Allah ???? This is not the God that I serve. My God would never ask me to do these kinds of things, or anything like it, in protest to anything. Burning things is a primal behavior,

Your god asked for the crusades, right?

The difference is that most christians comeout agaisnt these acts and believe them to be bad things.

As do most people of Islam... But apparently from an earlier post of yours you believe that NO Islam sect has come out against the terrorism... So apparently you are not well read on this matter...

Why are not the Islams coming out in the same way we would about what others are doing "in the name of allah" and yet they get a pass from everyone who is not a muslim.

Lets see... why wouldn't people of Islam in other countries come out against the acts of the terrorists? Well first off... When you say that people come out against the things done in the name of Christianity, what do you really mean? So are you saying that MOST people in Ireland during the high time of the IRA would have said that they were completely against the IRA? If not, then how could you expect MOST people of Islam to go against the terrorists when there are so many terrorists? Just going out against them could be signing their own death warrent... So why would anyone go to a TV station and say "Hey, I'm against terrorists... oh, and please dont kill me and my family." To me the safest thing to do in the middle east is to not get involved and not get on either side. The main proponents of Islam have cone out against terrorism, and many were brave enough to come out against Islam in these countries as well... Also, in America, where the Islam people have nothing to fear, most of them are agaisnt Terrorism.

If a christian does something bad, then it is, "what do you expect, his religion has been screwing people for two thousand years." If a muslim terrorist blows someone up, it is, "well he was a terrorist, but don't blame Islam because it is a religion of peace." It confounds me how this can be the case, but it is and you see it everytime a terrorist, in the name of allah, does something to hurt others.

So are you saying that his religion did this to him? So are you saying that he read the Koran and it told him exactly how to go about getting bombs and then told him where and when to blow himself up? On the same token I do not believe that christianity should be blamed for anything that a christian has done... But make no mistake about it, if you go about blaming Islam for the terrorists, I will go about blaming Christianity for all the bad things Christians have done... Instead of spreading more lies (because it is pretty obvious you think what was said about christianity was a lie) why dont you tell people that it is the man, and not the religion that kills people? To me that is the only "christian" thing to do. :162:

And finally, an ever increasing number of muslims believe that those who fight to end terrorism, are wrong, bad evil, etc. In other words, the war against terrorism or the US.

Don't most americans think the war on terrorism is stupid and we should end it? =P
When their family members are over in another country where a war is going on... Well lets say all of your family was over in Iraq right now, and you hear on the news every time a civilain dies (which is actually quite often.) Would you not also want the war to stop?

I only hope people can start realizing that "most" of Islam is not supporting the terrorists. The numbers do not support this idea... Unless if you try to redefine "most" to suit your needs.

 

[Steve]

Those that focus on salavation do not focus on the love of Christ except what his death gives you.

How can someone who truly belives Christ died for them not focus on his love! You have just made one of the strangest statements ive seen! I know what it cost Christ for my salvation and he did it because he loved me! dont tell me i do not focus on his love.

This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 1 John 3:16
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It misses entirely the command and example of a loving Jesus. Salvation is only self-interest.

:sarcastic How do you figure that? Its because i love Christ that i will not deny the sacrifice he made for me or treat it as unnecessary! Salvation is self-interest but it is more aswell, since understanding the condition i am in without Christ it is not with self-interest that i share my faith with others but from my perspective in their interest that they hear about what Christ has done for them. How could i as someone who belives there is going to be a judgement day, heaven, hell and that its Christs atonement that allows sinners (of which i am)to escape hell - not tell people the gospel?
Anyone of us can pick up a bible and read the new testament - you may decide that you dont belive it or that you do but you cant walk away from it with the idea that you dont need Jesus if what it says is true!

Being arrogant about caring for your self and not loving the infidel that Jesus loved is the house you live in. Nobody needs your idea of salvation when they have a way to God of thier own.

I do love people! I dont want any muslim, atheist etc to perish - not one! But i do not like their religion or worldview etc. Do you suppose that if Jesus was crucified for everyones sin, that he would be happy for them believing somthing that denied what he did for them?
The very point is that i do not believe people who havnt accepted the atonement Christ made for them really have a way to God. Call that arogant, narrowminded, living in a glasshouse - whatever you want. Id say its arogant to say you belive Christ died for you but it isnt really necessary, or that all paths lead to the same place when its obvious that the God of each different path is different.

Christ may be "a way" for you, but the love Jesus practised is universal.

Your right, Jesus love is universal. However he made it very clear which way is the only way!

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." John 14:6-7
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[Pah]

Steve,

You speak the words of the Inquisitors. And don't for a moment consider I only speak of the Inquistion commanded by the Catholic Church for the reformation held it's own and was as brutal and un-Christian as the Catholic version. You would, by your thoughts and words, bring it back, hopefully with tremendously less death and destruction.

 

[Steve]

Steve,

You speak the words of the Inquisitors. And don't for a moment consider I only speak of the Inquistion commanded by the Catholic Church for the reformation held it's own and was as brutal and un-Christian as the Catholic version. You would, by your thoughts and words, bring it back, hopefully with tremendously less death and destruction.

You have got to be kidding!
I hope that anyone else reading your comments finds them as absurd as i do!
Nowhere have i implied that we should be the ones to carry out Gods punishments on people. God is the judge, as a christian i want to warn people that this judge will not let sin go unpunished and that its only by the atonement Christ made for us (becuase of Gods love, grace and mercy) that we can be cleared on that day.
I do want all people to be saved! but if they dont then thats there choice, thats how far id take it.

If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. Matthew 10:14​

Im at a loss as to how you concluded id bring back the inquisitors, although i suspect you dont really believe that and where just going for shock value or somthing of the sort?
I have many friends and family who are not Christian, i do not want them brought befor a group of people who have decieded they can carry out Gods punishment, I pray for them and try to speak to them yet the whole point about turning to God is that it has to be that persons choice! If it is not their freewill then it is not from their heart - any forced conversion is not a real conversion.

 

[Nick Soapdish]

You have got to be kidding!
I hope that anyone else reading your comments finds them as absurd as i do!

I do.

Pah, you have to realize that false teachers are talked about quite a bit in the Bible because of the horror they can bring. As C.S. Lewis said, of all bad men, religious bad men are the worst. From our perspective you are projecting the acts of the false teachers on to the Christian religion as a whole. If you do not understand the distinction, then you do not understand Christianity very well.

 

[Pah]

You have got to be kidding!
I hope that anyone else reading your comments finds them as absurd as i do!
Nowhere have i implied that we should be the ones to carry out Gods punishments on people. God is the judge, as a christian i want to warn people that this judge will not let sin go unpunished and that its only by the atonement Christ made for us (becuase of Gods love, grace and mercy) that we can be cleared on that day....

That is the philosophy and theology behind all inquistions.

If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. Matthew 10:14

Jews and Muslims in every profession they make have said so and yet you want to point out the "errors" of their ways. Time to shake off the dust.

Im at a loss as to how you concluded id bring back the inquisitors, although i suspect you dont really believe that and where just going for shock value or somthing of the sort?

Don't confuse the brutality with the purpose. Your words are the same and you can be identified by your words as well as your deeds. Although, in supporting war in Muslim countries, you condone the same violence administered differently.

 

[Ryan2065]

it seems you yourself are unwilling to belive some of the foudational doctrines clearly taught in the very book you claim to believe.

Where exactly does it say that "Christianity is better and more noble than all other religions"??

Christ might mention that the only way into heaven is through him, but I do not believe he ever says that a religion that will spring up through the disciples will be better than all other religions... Maybe I am just not seeing the passage.

 

[Pah]

I do.

Pah, you have to realize that false teachers are talked about quite a bit in the Bible because of the horror they can bring. As C.S. Lewis said, of all bad men, religious bad men are the worst. From our perspective you are projecting the acts of the false teachers on to the Christian religion as a whole. If you do not understand the distinction, then you do not understand Christianity very well.

I understand that very well. It just doesn't apply here. For one thing, I do not include all of Christianity - I only speak of those Christians that deem others to be on the wrong path. And the "wrong path" can be seen as the target of the many Inquisitions. When you fail to recognize the Jewish covenant and the Prophet to the Muslims as a way to God, you declare them the "wrong path". That is exactly what the Inquisition did (leaving aside the "marriage" of church and state with the state frequently the executioner). Some Christians will try to "root out" heresy and attempt to convert. The failure to convert is not greated with death today but still leads to a social demeaning with it's attendant injustice.

 

[Nick Soapdish]

I understand that very well. It just doesn't apply here. For one thing, I do not include all of Christianity - I only speak of those Christians that deem others to be on the wrong path. And the "wrong path" can be seen as the target of the many Inquisitions. When you fail to recognize the Jewish covenant and the Prophet to the Muslims as a way to God, you declare them the "wrong path". That is exactly what the Inquisition did (leaving aside the "marriage" of church and state with the state frequently the executioner). Some Christians will try to "root out" heresy and attempt to convert. The failure to convert is not greated with death today but still leads to a social demeaning with it's attendant injustice.

There is nothing wrong in telling someone that you believe they are going down the wrong path. If I notice a girl out ice skating, and I go out of my way to tell her that I believe the ice she is skating on is too thin, then I have not sinned. However, if I redicule her, threaten her or cut her head off for it, then that is a different matter. Do you see the difference?

 

[Steve]

it seems you yourself are unwilling to belive some of the foudational doctrines clearly taught in the very book you claim to believe.

Where exactly does it say that "Christianity is better and more noble than all other religions"??

Christ might mention that the only way into heaven is through him, but I do not believe he ever says that a religion that will spring up through the disciples will be better than all other religions... Maybe I am just not seeing the passage.

Where you have quoted me there I was refering to the necessity of Christs atonement.

It is related to your question though, the bible states many times if anyone preaches a different gospel that it is inferior. Paul for example when writting to those who had accepted Christ as Savior wrote

As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! Galatians 1:9
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It makes sense that if the Bible teaches Christ is the only way then it will regard any religion that denies this as inferior because it will not lead people to Salvation.