I agree, but not about secondd krishna, there is only 1 SRI KRUSHNA and he is the supreme brahman and godhead..
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Christianity is a crapshoot
- Thread starter roger1440
- Start date
codex
New Member
Ghulam believed in the Anti Christ? You believe in the Anti Christ? So you believe that your Dajjal is the Anti Christ?
Ghulam never said Anti Christ mate.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Please read post #157.
Al-Masih ad-Dajjal (Arabic: المسيح الدجّال Al-Masīḥ ad-Dajjāl, "the false messiah", or "the deceiver"), is an evil figure in Islamic eschatology.[1] He is to appear, pretending to be the Masih (i.e. the Messiah), before Yawm al-Qiyamah (Day of Resurrection). He will be an anti-messiah figure, comparable to the Antichrist in Christian eschatology and to Armilus in medieval Jewish eschatology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masih_ad-Dajjal
Dajjal is what is described in Christianity as Anti-Christ. Or one may say Anti-Christ is what is described in Islam as Dajjal.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masih_ad-Dajjal
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be the end-time Reformer of all religions. He was the Promised Messiah or the Second Coming for Christianity, Imam-Mahdi of Islam, and Krishna of Hinduism:
The likeness of Krishna[edit]
It is often mentioned that Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be the Hindu God Krishna. This claim is arguably the most misunderstood of his claims and most often misquoted. According to Ahmad, Krishna was not God but a prophet of God and the Sanskrit term Avatar synonymous with the terms Prophet and Messenger which are popular within the Middle Eastern religious traditions. He published various revelations which he claimed to have received informing him of this, one such revelation addressing him was:
“ O Krishna slayer of swine, protector of cows, thy praise is recorded in the Gita. ”
— Lecture Sialkot[17]
In a lecture given in Sialkot in 1904 he declared that God had informed him that Krishna who had appeared among the Aryas thousands of years ago was indeed a prophet of God upon whom the Holy Spirit would descend from God but that later his teachings were corrupted and he began to be worshipped.[17] Here he claimed that he was the avatar whom the Hindus were awaiting in the latter days and that he had appeared in the likeness of Krishna invested with the same qualities.[2] and in his capacity as such he set out to explain and correct what he perceived to be the erroneous beliefs of the Hindus of his time such as the worship of many Gods and the transmigration of souls.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_of_Mirza_Ghulam_Ahmad
RegardsIt is often mentioned that Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be the Hindu God Krishna. This claim is arguably the most misunderstood of his claims and most often misquoted. According to Ahmad, Krishna was not God but a prophet of God and the Sanskrit term Avatar synonymous with the terms Prophet and Messenger which are popular within the Middle Eastern religious traditions. He published various revelations which he claimed to have received informing him of this, one such revelation addressing him was:
“ O Krishna slayer of swine, protector of cows, thy praise is recorded in the Gita. ”
— Lecture Sialkot[17]
In a lecture given in Sialkot in 1904 he declared that God had informed him that Krishna who had appeared among the Aryas thousands of years ago was indeed a prophet of God upon whom the Holy Spirit would descend from God but that later his teachings were corrupted and he began to be worshipped.[17] Here he claimed that he was the avatar whom the Hindus were awaiting in the latter days and that he had appeared in the likeness of Krishna invested with the same qualities.[2] and in his capacity as such he set out to explain and correct what he perceived to be the erroneous beliefs of the Hindus of his time such as the worship of many Gods and the transmigration of souls.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_of_Mirza_Ghulam_Ahmad
serp777
Well-Known Member
Obviously. But you're free to make a decent argument instead of deflecting. It would be like me saying: you're free to read the God Delusion or any of Christopher Hitchens' books.
I never asked for white noise. You know this is completely meaningless to anyone who doesn't assume the truth of the abrahamic faiths right?
Do a google search on the bible, Jesus, and Christianity if you're unfamiliar with what it is. Christianity is heavily based on the bible, Jesus, and scriptural cannon formed in the early days of the church.
Are you unfamiliar with the genetic code and environmental conditions? Each person recieves a random lottery that determines how pleasant their life will be. This is as random as you can get. You're making a foolish argument though--something along the lines of saying that its not actually random, rather its just seems random since we cant conceive of the complexity of God's plan. Again, all you've done is make yet another assertion.
You know what makes even more sense though? It is random and God has no plan. Couldn't God's plan be a random universe actually?
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Yes. Randomness is one of the most important things to spirituality -as it allows for infinite newness. That does not equate to chaos.
The universe is not actually random. It became exactly what it would become since its initiation.
Only choice/decision can alter or has altered its otherwise-inevitable course.
It is questioned whether or not true randomness can even exist -as everything is based on things which CAN be known -and if known, predicted. So... Randomness would actually be by perspective. Something would be random only if one did not KNOW it was going to happen beforehand. For example..... We might write a randomness generator program -but the program would actually determine the outcome in a predictable way. It is only when we cease to consider the nature of the program that the outcome seems random. We would have written a program which could surprise us -but only because we stopped considering or tracking the progress of the program.
You assume that each person receives a random lottery.
This is true somewhat -as some things are under our control, and some things are not. That which is not under our control is not necessarily random. It is controlled by something.
The fact that such lotteries can be and often are fixed shows your statement to be false. We are also often able to reject our lot and choose something different.
Rich parents can withhold pleasantness from children... People born in deserts can move....
but we cannot yet change the fact that humans are born on Earth.
Our choices affect the lot others are given, also -even to the point of altering the genes they would otherwise have.
You assume that everything is not under the control of God.
It is not proven. You assume that God does not give and withhold pleasantness for various purposes.
That idea is understandable -but definitely not a certainty.
Randomness within order. Infinite variety without chaos.
God did give the creation over to futility in hope -that we would learn that it needs to be ordered, that our lot is affected by our choices and the choices of others, order needs to be maintained and randomness needs to be kept in check... So that we might eventually become masters of our environment.
Whether you believe in God or not, man is becoming increasingly able to fix the lottery.
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
To prove my point I quote from Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as to what he say about Dajjal/Anti-Christ:
Christian Priests as Dajjal Dajjal in fact is none other than the people known as Christian missionaries and European philosophers. They act like the two jaws of the Promised Dajjal with which he devours people’s faith like a python. First it is the common and ignorant people who get caught in the wiles of the missionaries; and then, those who happen to escape their clutches being disgusted with the disgraceful and false beliefs, are caught in the net of the European philosophers. I see that the common people are more vulnerable to the lies of the clergy, whereas the intellectual ones are more susceptible to the falsehood spread by the philosophers. [Kitab-ul-Bariyyah, by Mirza Ghulam Ahamd, Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 13, pp. 252-253, footnote]
https://www.alislam.org/books/essence3/essence-3.pdf
So, Christianity is the Anti-Christ as they present teachings of Paul in the garb of Jesus.
Regards
I dont know where you get this idea from and who that guy is but the guy Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and sounds delusional n retarded.......we consider muhammad and jesus just as normal human beings and not even prophets and they are just sinful as we are..........
KrushNa on the other hand is the supreme brahman who is the cause of the entire universe.....Bukhari and Hadith mentions many controversial stories of muhammad. Also, Muhammad ancestors are pagans(covered hindus) who prayed to various deities..Sayur-ul-okul which records the events in the pre-islamic arab countries clearly mention this...If you want to see the truth of muhammad, start from mecca which houses a shiva lingam with 360 deities over it and which muhammad tried to destroy it.
Moslems are worshiping a broken Shiva linga(which is powerless) in Meccah
xstianity as well as islam are both crapshoots
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
To prove my point I quote from Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as to what he say about Dajjal/Anti-Christ:
Christian Priests as Dajjal
Dajjal in fact is none other than the people known as Christian missionaries and European philosophers. They act like the two jaws of the Promised Dajjal with which he devours people’s faith like a python. First it is the common and ignorant people who get caught in the wiles of the missionaries; and then, those who happen to escape their clutches being disgusted with the disgraceful and false beliefs, are caught in the net of the European philosophers. I see that the common people are more vulnerable to the lies of the clergy, whereas the intellectual ones are more susceptible to the falsehood spread by the philosophers. [Kitab-ul-Bariyyah,by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 13, pp. 252-253, footnote]
https://www.alislam.org/books/essence3/essence-3.pdf
Another aspect of Dajjal-the Anti-Christ explained by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
Regards
serp777
Well-Known Member
Source / evidence needed. This claim is insufficient on its own.
evidence again.
According to QUantum physics that question has been answered. Ill cite a source if you want but you should be able to google quantum physics and see this for yourself. Furthermore there is a difference between pseudo random number geberators and real random number generators. There are different kinds of random number generators that scientists have produced. Again ill provide evidence if you request it here.
I find that likely since there's no evidence to the contrary and the universe would behave the same if it was a random lottery. How do you tell this universe apart from a universe determined by a random lottery?
This is a fallacy. Just because lotteries have been fixed doesn't mean everything is is fixed. I'll also add that very few people can say for sure that their will was the sole determining factor in allowing them to choose a different life.
Whats your point?
Please translate deepak chopra to English.
I'll need evidence that establishes you as an authority that can speak for or explain God's intentions.
Evidence again please.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
As for the universe not being random.....
The evidence is pretty much all of science -and all science hopes to be.
Something truly random would be unknowable -magical, if you will.
The whole "nothing is magical and there must be a scientific explanation" thing should suffice.
Decision is the closest thing to true randomness -because it does not need to make sense. Still.... The possible decisions at any point are knowable.
Unless you are saying the universe is magical and science could never possibly know about it -or that decision affected things at some point after the Big Bang (which we know we now do) -the universe became exactly what the universe would become.
It is possible that the big bang essentially produced randomness generators of sorts, but that which is produced can technically be reproduced and is knowable. Randomness is a matter of perspective. If you do not know what will happen, it seems random -the generator of the randomness is not beyond knowing or predicting by its nature, but is beyond our ability to know or predict.
Also to be considered is the level at which apparent randomness applies or is applied.
Let's say the universe is a house. Let's say the house must have certain properties -but other properties are not crucial. It will certainly have walls, windows, a roof, doors, etc... but paint color, roof style, door shape, etc., etc. might be generated "at random".
That which could generate apparent randomness is essentially a decision-maker with no obvious or apparent predictability or reasoning -but as something is produced, it is produced by a technically knowable and predictable process. The fact that we cannot know it or predict it does not make it truly random. Even if randomness generators were produced, their seemingly-random decisions could have been known beforehand if all data could be known and processed -all interactions predicted based on the properties of the things which interact.
Even when knowledgeable decision is applied by an aware and self-aware intelligence which may or may not be based on anything in particular, only so many options are available -decision can only be applied as it can be applied.
We often believe things to be true based on our perspective -and often make incorrect conclusions. We also like to say things that sound cool, but really aren't true.
Time travel is possible.... Things can be in two places at once.... Everything is the right length if you use a stretchy measuring tape...
I agree with some of what you wrote -and wrote so.
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
To prove my point I quote from Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as to what he say about Dajjal/Anti-Christ:
Christian Priests as Dajjal
There have been many Dajjals and there may be more to come. But the greatest Dajjal, whose deceit is so vile in God’s estimation that heaven might well be rent asunder by it, is the group which deifies a mere human being. God Almighty has set forth in the Holy Qur’an various kinds of deceit practised by the Jews, the Polytheists and others, but does not single out any which might cause heaven to be rent asunder. Therefore, we should not designate any group as the greatest Dajjal but the one so designated by God in His Holy Word.
It would be most unfair and cruel to try to find someone else as the greatest Dajjal. On no account can we justify the existence of a greater Dajjal than the present day Christian clergy. Whereas God has designated them in His Holy Word as the greatest Dajjal, it would be the height of faithlessness to consider anyone else to be the greatest Dajjal in contrast to the Word of God. Had there been any possibility at any other time of the existence of such a Dajjal, God Almighty, Whose knowledge transcends the past, the present and the future, would have designated him and not these people as the great Dajjal. The sign of the great Dajjal, which we can clearly deduce from the Hadith of Bukhari 203 is that the great Dajjal would deify Jesus and would attribute salvation to the cross. It is a matter of great delight for the knowledgeable that on this point the definitive verses of the Holy Qur’an and authentic Ahadith are both in agreement.
Thus, the truth about this controversial issue has come to the open. The Holy Qur’an unambiguously designates the Christian clergy as the greatest Dajjal and terms their lies to be so great as could destroy heaven and earth. And the Hadith also specifies that the true sign of the Promised Messiah would be that he would break the cross and slay the great Dajjal. Our stupid Maulavis do not seem to reflect that the main objective of the Promised Messiah is the breaking of the cross and slaying of the great Dajjal. The Holy Qur’an has foretold that the great deception and mischief whereby the order of the entire universe might be upset and the world brought to an end is the mischief of the Christian missionaries.
From this it clearly follows that there is no greater Dajjal than the clergy and that he who, having witnessed the revelation of this great mischief, waits for some other, denies the truthfulness of the Holy Qur’an. Moreover, as the literal meaning of the word Dajjal is a group that pollutes the earth with its deceit, and, according to the Ahadith, the singular sign of the great Dajjal 203 ‘He (the Promised Messiah) will break the Cross.’ [Publisher] Dajjal—the Antichrist 283 would be his advocacy of the cross, if someone still fails to consider the Christian clergy as the great Dajjal, he is indeed spiritually blind. [Anjam-e-Atham, by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 11, pp. 46-48]
https://www.alislam.org/books/essence3/essence-3.pdf
Another aspect of Dajjal-the Anti-Christ explained by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
Regard
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Christianity is a crapshoot
Yes it became as such when hijacked by Paul (and the Churhc) from the truthful teachings of Jesus. With Jesus' it is excellent.
Regards
Yes it became as such when hijacked by Paul (and the Churhc) from the truthful teachings of Jesus. With Jesus' it is excellent.
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Christian Priests as Dajjal
To prove my point I quote from Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as to what he say about Dajjal/Anti-Christ:
The Holy Qur’an then specifies that in the latter days the Christians will dominate the earth, and they shall be the cause of all kinds of mischief running rampant. Waves of calamities will rise on all sides and will race down from every height….They will possess great material strength and dominion, against which all other powers and states will seem powerless. They will also enjoy supremacy in all kinds of knowledge and sciences and establish new and wonderful industries. They will also be dominant in their policies, projects, and good administration, and will show great resolve in their worldly enterprises and will also excel in their endeavour to spread their faith. They will leave behind all other nations in their social, agricultural and commercial policies, as indeed in everything else. This is the meaning of:
وَهُمْ مِنْ كُلِّ حَدَبٍ يَنْسِلُونَ*
*‘They shall hasten forth from every height.’—Ta Ha, 21:97
https://www.alislam.org/books/essence3/essence-3.pdf
Another aspect of Dajjal-the Anti-Christ explained by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
Regard
283-284
popsthebuilder
Active Member
Forgot no greed. Just sayin.okay how about we get down to the basics , without Dogma, or who is and who is not a heretic.
Matthew 25 says at the end time Christ will separate the saved from the unsaved. To those saved He will say " receive your Eternal reward for I was hungry and you gave me to eat, thirsty and you gave me to drink, I was sick and you cared for me, I was in prison and you visited me, what you did for the least of my people, you did for me.'
He said to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, to love God with all your heart mind and soul and love your neighbor as yourself. That is the greatest commandment.
He said that sums up the law, therefore it trumps all the other stuff Christians bicker about.
If everyone followed the example of Christ there would be no war, no rape, No Stealing , no lying, no violence,, and the sick and hungry would be cared for.
Can't argue with that.
[emoji4]
Peace
popsthebuilder
Active Member
You seem to liken all Christians to Babylon. And I must admit; that is not supported by the Qur'an, or any holy book before it or after that I have read.
Submitting to the will of GOD isn't proclaiming a whole people to be the anti Christ. Yes some are astray and will never return home, but that isn't all.
Peace
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
The Christian Priests are Dajjal, not the whole Christian people.
Regards
popsthebuilder
Active Member
Even your revision claims every priest of Christianity to be of intentional misdirection. This simply isn't the case as there are some who actually really belief the teachings, example, and self sacrifice of the Christ, and the second coming. Not proclaiming that Jesus was or wasn't GOD incarnate so much as focusing on the direction of man by GOD's will, and knowing that Christ shows that way, and knowing that to truly believe is to act according to that belief.
Best of regards to you. With humility.
Peace
Subhankar Zac
Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
As a former Christian, I too agree.
Though my church was fairy diverse and liberal, still the central ideology makes no sense and potrays a rather desperate deity seeking attention.
Though my church was fairy diverse and liberal, still the central ideology makes no sense and potrays a rather desperate deity seeking attention.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Please name such Christian person/s group/s, denomination/s and the correct teaching that they believe.
Regards