Christianity offers wings not weight

[slave2six]

I'm glad I have Krishna, otherwise all of those things would be very hard.
Simply beautiful!

I have a hard time understanding people like you. This is not an insult. I simply don't get it.

 

[slave2six]

The People who know how to "let go",
are the people who know how to live.

It won't let me frubal you but if I could I'd give you at least fifty.

 

[slave2six]

And again...having big daddy in the sky is not something that offends god but the one that does not want daddy.

I am the father of five. It is my goal to raise my children in such a way that they are strong enough to face life on their own without my help or interference. They will always love me, sure, and perhaps occasionally ask advice. But I would count myself a failure if my kids depended on me for the rest of my life.

 

[slave2six]

Hi there, I tried the standing in front of the mirror thing saying: Your'e Okay, You are OKay.

It didnt work for me.

It will go on not working so long as you are encumbered by the worldview that you currently possess. For me, realizing that:

1) I am human
2) This is not a bad thing

was truly freeing. We are biological creatures with tendencies that are based on our physical/chemical makeup. Some people are simply manic by nature. Some are morose. Both are extremes and both are treatable. But neither are the result of some spiritual component. In fact, attributing physical characteristics to spiritual problems causes one not only to not find appropriate help but keeps him/her that way until they do.

 

[Humanistheart]

Some believe, that they alone choose everything that comes out of them, that they can invent and reinvent themselves, that they are their own engineer. They dont need god. Their OK without him. Ok...so does that follow then that

1. You have to clear your own conscience
2. Find your own meaning
3. Uphold your own cause
4. Carry your own burdens
5. Protect your own life
6. Overcome your own fears
7. Heal your own wounds
8. Secure your own future
9. Comfort yourself in death.

If so..then i can understand why you want to be your own boss.

Odd, I don't see why people would want all that. If I was capable of some belief I'm sure I'd find it comforting, well, if I believed what people said about the faith. I was raised in a christian home and the painful juxtiposition of the loving god talked about and the obvious abscence of a loving god in the world and the contradictions in the dogma hurt me more than helped.

 

[Phasmid]

Some believe, that they alone choose everything that comes out of them, that they can invent and reinvent themselves, that they are their own engineer. They dont need god. Their OK without him. Ok...so does that follow then that

1. You have to clear your own conscience
2. Find your own meaning
3. Uphold your own cause
4. Carry your own burdens
5. Protect your own life
6. Overcome your own fears
7. Heal your own wounds
8. Secure your own future
9. Comfort yourself in death.

If so..then i can understand why you want to be your own boss.

I can also understand why the bible says...that whoever the son has set free is free indeed. Free from all the worries that the above list might bring with it.

Come to me, all ye that are burdened and heavy laden and I will give you rest. Its good to know that god does not lay burdens on us, but helps us carry it. Infact he removes our burdens.

Why do so many christians and non christians see a relationship with god as being burdensome when they really have all their burdens taken care of if they will only let go and let god.

Heneni

In my experience the complete opposite is true.

Believing there's an angry eye watching every action and every thought and judging you. Constantly wondering whether you're going to burn in fire forever or worse, wondering whether your non-religious family and friends will meet that fate. Constantly feeling like you're not good enough, not worthy of anything. Constant guilt that someone died for you and you doubt it or fail him. Constant praying for forgiveness (it actually gave me OCD. Only getting rid of the religious junk freed my mind).

Religion enslaved me and made me weak. I had no self respect, no self confidence, I always felt guilt and generally was a misserable git.

It's only once I dropped religion, after having the courage to rationally analise by beliefs, that I finally saw religion for what it is. I can see how it makes others happy... but it did the complete opposite for me. After I left Christianity and simply stopped caring whether there's a god or not, I began to have a much clearer mind. I started to believe in myself and trusted my reason and intellect over irrational fear. And I even overcame OCD. I used to pray ALL the time. I couldn't stop praying I just had to or I would worry something bad would happen e.g. if I saw someone riding a bike I'd have to pray over and over again that that person wouldn't fall off and die. Well after I left religion in the past where it belongs, I said to myself, "Nothing you think will manifest in a physical outcome, you aren't ******* telekentic or any of that crap and there's no god to listen to your prayers. If said person falls off their bike and you thought about it, then it's a coincidence". And since then I've never really had a problem with it.

Sorry to rant on, but I just wanted to explain why I disagree with you. For me religion is a weight.

Edit: Also, the list of things you put there. These things come naturally once you let go of religion and faith. You see your place in the universe. You're free. You look after yourself, you realise you've made mistakes in the past and you try not to repeat them. And yeah you have to overcome YOUR OWN FEARS and your own BURDENS. Overcoming them YOURSELF if the only way you TRUELLY overcome them. You accomplish nothing by praying for these things and believing you've recieved them. You gain strength by overcomming these things yourself...

 

[Lisa S]

Huh? What could God possibly need that any of us could provide (except belief which brought forth his existence in the first place)?

What a silly question. Cash, of course.

For an all-knowing, all-powerful deity, the guy is pretty bad with money and always in need of donations.

 

[AlsoAnima]

In my experience the complete opposite is true.

Believing there's an angry eye watching every action and every thought and judging you. Constantly wondering whether you're going to burn in fire forever or worse, wondering whether your non-religious family and friends will meet that fate. Constantly feeling like you're not good enough, not worthy of anything. Constant guilt that someone died for you and you doubt it or fail him. Constant praying for forgiveness (it actually gave me OCD. Only getting rid of the religious junk freed my mind).

Religion enslaved me and made me weak. I had no self respect, no self confidence, I always felt guilt and generally was a misserable git.

It's only once I dropped religion, after having the courage to rationally analise by beliefs, that I finally saw religion for what it is. I can see how it makes others happy... but it did the complete opposite for me. After I left Christianity and simply stopped caring whether there's a god or not, I began to have a much clearer mind. I started to believe in myself and trusted my reason and intellect over irrational fear. And I even overcame OCD. I used to pray ALL the time. I couldn't stop praying I just had to or I would worry something bad would happen e.g. if I saw someone riding a bike I'd have to pray over and over again that that person wouldn't fall off and die. Well after I left religion in the past where it belongs, I said to myself, "Nothing you think will manifest in a physical outcome, you aren't ******* telekentic or any of that crap and there's no god to listen to your prayers. If said person falls off their bike and you thought about it, then it's a coincidence". And since then I've never really had a problem with it.

Sorry to rant on, but I just wanted to explain why I disagree with you. For me religion is a weight.

Edit: Also, the list of things you put there. These things come naturally once you let go of religion and faith. You see your place in the universe. You're free. You look after yourself, you realise you've made mistakes in the past and you try not to repeat them. And yeah you have to overcome YOUR OWN FEARS and your own BURDENS. Overcoming them YOURSELF if the only way you TRUELLY overcome them. You accomplish nothing by praying for these things and believing you've recieved them. You gain strength by overcomming these things yourself...

There's a psychological term for when a person blames their problems on an outside source... what's it called again?

I figured you'd know.

 

[richardlowellt]

In my experience the complete opposite is true.

Believing there's an angry eye watching every action and every thought and judging you. Constantly wondering whether you're going to burn in fire forever or worse, wondering whether your non-religious family and friends will meet that fate. Constantly feeling like you're not good enough, not worthy of anything. Constant guilt that someone died for you and you doubt it or fail him. Constant praying for forgiveness (it actually gave me OCD. Only getting rid of the religious junk freed my mind).

Religion enslaved me and made me weak. I had no self respect, no self confidence, I always felt guilt and generally was a misserable git.

It's only once I dropped religion, after having the courage to rationally analise by beliefs, that I finally saw religion for what it is. I can see how it makes others happy... but it did the complete opposite for me. After I left Christianity and simply stopped caring whether there's a god or not, I began to have a much clearer mind. I started to believe in myself and trusted my reason and intellect over irrational fear. And I even overcame OCD. I used to pray ALL the time. I couldn't stop praying I just had to or I would worry something bad would happen e.g. if I saw someone riding a bike I'd have to pray over and over again that that person wouldn't fall off and die. Well after I left religion in the past where it belongs, I said to myself, "Nothing you think will manifest in a physical outcome, you aren't ******* telekentic or any of that crap and there's no god to listen to your prayers. If said person falls off their bike and you thought about it, then it's a coincidence". And since then I've never really had a problem with it.

Sorry to rant on, but I just wanted to explain why I disagree with you. For me religion is a weight.

Edit: Also, the list of things you put there. These things come naturally once you let go of religion and faith. You see your place in the universe. You're free. You look after yourself, you realise you've made mistakes in the past and you try not to repeat them. And yeah you have to overcome YOUR OWN FEARS and your own BURDENS. Overcoming them YOURSELF if the only way you TRUELLY overcome them. You accomplish nothing by praying for these things and believing you've recieved them. You gain strength by overcomming these things yourself...

Bravo, well said, why anyone would open themselves to a celestial dictator is beyond me. A celestial dictator who can peer into your most private thoughts and then convict you of thought crimes, is that not the definition of Totalitarianism? I can remember being a boy of 13 or 14 and having thoughts about that pretty little suzy sitting across from me in school, and then, as I was raised Catholic, having to go to confession and tell this priest i was having impure thoughts, and on my way to do my penance, still thinking about scoring with little suzy, what a horrid curse. This quote fits me so well "I believed in God until I reached the age of reason"

 

[richardlowellt]

And again...having big daddy in the sky is not something that offends god but the one that does not want daddy.

We have a father 'in the sky' who we call ABBA father. God does not take our storms away but god shows us how to sing in the rain. We are not excluded from hard times, but our suffering is never in vain. It only strengthens our hope that we have in god. For somebody to loose hope they might as well die inside. And so mankind finds hope in whatever they can, but christians find hope in god. That hope allows them to suffer with dignity knowing that there is a hope that cannot dissapoint. Hope that is deferred makes the heart sick. For the world to put their hope in things that dont materialise makes their hearts sick. A christians hope lies in god, who does not dissapoint. But our hopes are not in anything on this earth, but in God who is eternal. Our treasure does not lie here, so our hopes does not lie here either, and so we can suffer in this world with dignity because we know that there is something to look forward to.

The world is offended by suffering and even blames god for it. Christians know that suffering is a given and we can endure it because we have a non shakeable hope. A living hope. That cannot dissapoint. So when we suffer we know that there is the 'daddy in the sky' who never leaves us nor forsakes us.

Heneni

Your posts bring to mind a joke I heard, actually very fitting for the way you seem to think.

After dying a man awakes to find himself in a beautiful surrounding not knowing weather he was in heaven or hell. seeing a window he looked out and saw a desolate landscape with hundreds of people moaning and crying, their cloths in tatters, storm clouds pouring a cold rain on them, surely that must be hell he said, "no, said a voice, that is heaven" But they seem so miserable, said the man. The voice responded "yes, those are Christians, and they wouldn't have it any other way"

 

[Lisa S]

Bravo, well said, why anyone would open themselves to a celestial dictator is beyond me. A celestial dictator who can peer into your most private thoughts and then convict you of thought crimes"

Also he watches you in the bathroom while you poop!

 

[richardlowellt]

Also he watches you in the bathroom while you poop!

Among other things!!!

 

[Andal]

I have a hard time understanding people like you. This is not an insult. I simply don't get it.

Would you care to clarify what exactly you mean by people like me? Are you referring to theists? Or perhaps you mean non Christians who respond to Christian themed threads?

 

[blackout]

Hi there, I tried the standing in front of the mirror thing saying: Your'e Okay, You are OKay.

It didnt work for me.

Heneni

It's not about looking in the mirror sweetheart.

It's about looking deep inside.

As well, it's not about "affirming" anything.

It's more about just looking in honestly, and observing.
Then you just start putting stuff down a thing at a time.
Then you start raising things up... inside.
(the dieing and the rising)

Then those things you lay down and raise up inside...
BE/COME... reflected in your life on the outside.
Then one day you look in the mirror...
and you SEE that you are not only "Okay"...
but that you are a work of art.
A Wondrous Becoming of Self.


~Vi~

 

[Heneni]

Thank you all for your input thus far. What i have been able to gather is that for atheists/non believers their perception is that this life is all there is to it. Christians dont live like this is the only life. For us this life on earth is perhaps the tip of the beginning and atheists would believe this isnt the tip, this is it, so they feel like they have to grow up and face the 'reality' where as christians understand that unless you become like a child you will never enter the kingdom. A Christian has to face the reality that they have to BECOME like children again. Children rely on their father for many things. As a baby - all things. And that is how christianity differs from what the world would think is the 'grown up' thing to do. The world wants the children of god to act like grown ups while god wants us to become like children.

Now there is the notion that as a child you dont have to take responsibility for your actions. That is not true we know that children have to take repsonsibility for their actions. So becoming like a child does not mean we are trying to sidestep responsibility, it means we let go of stuff we dont have to worry about because god says he will take care of it. Like a father would do.

Christian maturity does not equal becoming a grown up in god. Christian maturity means that you come to understand god better, and as you do you become more like a child in the way you trust and let go and let god.

Heneni

 

[Phasmid]

There's a psychological term for when a person blames their problems on an outside source... what's it called again?

I figured you'd know.

In this case it's true. Religion was the cause of my problems back in the day. As I said, it works for some people. If you find Christianity is a good thing for you, then great, but the same can't be true of me.

It's only when I gave up religion that my problems became apparent. For me, allowing myself to believe in the irrational claims of the bible, was like openning a flood gate for all manner of other nonsense. Upon giving it up I began to see things the way they really are.

 

[Phasmid]

Thank you all for your input thus far. What i have been able to gather is that for atheists/non believers their perception is that this life is all there is to it. Christians dont live like this is the only life. For us this life on earth is perhaps the tip of the beginning and atheists would believe this isnt the tip, this is it, so they feel like they have to grow up and face the 'reality' where as christians understand that unless you become like a child you will never enter the kingdom. A Christian has to face the reality that they have to BECOME like children again. Children rely on their father for many things. As a baby - all things. And that is how christianity differs from what the world would think is the 'grown up' thing to do. The world wants the children of god to act like grown ups while god wants us to become like children.

Now there is the notion that as a child you dont have to take responsibility for your actions. That is not true we know that children have to take repsonsibility for their actions. So becoming like a child does not mean we are trying to sidestep responsibility, it means we let go of stuff we dont have to worry about because god says he will take care of it. Like a father would do.

Christian maturity does not equal becoming a grown up in god. Christian maturity means that you come to understand god better, and as you do you become more like a child in the way you trust and let go and let god.

Heneni

You don't need to believe in diety to, "let go". Atheists don't believe in god... that's it. You can't claim all members of a certain group think the same way. When you realise there is no afterlife and that you have but one life to live, you start to make the most of it. That doesn't mean there's loads of pressure to go out and do stuff every single day and being an atheist doesn't necessarily mean one is mature at all...

If you want to live with your head in the clouds beleiving you're going to live for eternity then be my guest. But when you, "let go" of this childish notion you'll find that you quite naturally develope the attributes you seem to think atheists work so hard at.

 

[Heneni]

In this case it's true. Religion was the cause of my problems back in the day. As I said, it works for some people. If you find Christianity is a good thing for you, then great, but the same can't be true of me.

It's only when I gave up religion that my problems became apparent. For me, allowing myself to believe in the irrational claims of the bible, was like openning a flood gate for all manner of other nonsense. Upon giving it up I began to see things the way they really are.

How do you know that you have now been able to see things for the way they really are, and have not fallen into another deception or perhaps the only deception? Just trying to understand.

I have spoken to countless people who have 'tried' christianity and it did not work for them. I mean there are SO many people like this. But with furthur investigation you will find that when they were following the faith, christ was not the most treasured possession of their soul. And unless christ is the most treasured possession of the soul, nothing in this religion called chirstianity will 'work'.

Im not saying this to discourage anybody but rather to encourage in the sense that, what you feel was hog wash in the end, was perhaps! There is more to it that you experienced or you understood. I have never in my lifetime come across any man or women who treasured christ as the most precious posession of their soul to turn around and say it was all balony.

Naturally a wishy washy chirsitianity will result in torn hearts and souls in no time. But the kind of religion im talking about is a complete captivation of the soul by the greatness of god. And would sell all they have to keep it if they had to. That is real christianity. Nobody would willingly give up their most precious possession if they knew the value of it. They would rather sell all they have to buy it in the first place!

I feel terrible for so many people who have resigned their quest for god, simply because they havent found him yet.

There is a saying: There are none so deluded as those who take comfort in a god they simply dont possesses. And its these people who make our faith look terrible. The atheists give it their best shot as well.

Heneni

 

[Phasmid]

How do you know that you have now been able to see things for the way they really are, and have not fallen into another deception or perhaps the only deception? Just trying to understand.

I have spoken to countless people who have 'tried' christianity and it did not work for them. I mean there are SO many people like this. But with furthur investigation you will find that when they were following the faith, christ was not the most treasured possession of their soul. And unless christ is the most treasured possession of the soul, nothing in this religion called chirstianity will 'work'.

Im not saying this to discourage anybody but rather to encourage in the sense that, what you feel was hog wash in the end, was perhaps! There is more to it that you experienced or you understood. I have never in my lifetime come across any man or women who treasured christ as the most precious posession of their soul to turn around and say it was all balony.

Naturally a wishy washy chirsitianity will result in torn hearts and souls in no time. But the kind of religion im talking about is a complete captivation of the soul by the greatness of god. And would sell all they have to keep it if they had to. That is real christianity. Nobody would willingly give up their most precious possession if they knew the value of it. They would rather sell all they have to buy it in the first place!

I feel terrible for so many people who have resigned their quest for god, simply because they havent found him yet.

There is a saying: There are none so deluded as those who take comfort in a god they simply dont possesses. And its these people who make our faith look terrible. The atheists give it their best shot as well.

Heneni

Sigh... I've had many religious experiences. I can assure you I believed. But doubts start to creep in and I began to question things. This wasn't an over night thing. It took years for me to have the guts to really question things. I didn't want to give up religion, despite what it did to me, since I was affraid of hell and I didn't want to lose that source of comfort. It's like looking at the floor and finding there's nothing holding you up, you think you're going to fall, but then you start to use your reason, "There has to be a floor or I'd be falling" and the floor appears.

How do I know this isn't another deception? I suppose I don't 100%. But if this is a deception and god allows such deceptions then how the hell are any of us meant to know the truth. This is why I simply don't care whether there's a god or not.

He either doesn't exist or doesn't care whether or not I believe in him... works for me.

 

[Smoke]

Come to me, all ye that are burdened and heavy laden and I will give you rest. Its good to know that god does not lay burdens on us, but helps us carry it. Infact he removes our burdens.

Why do so many christians and non christians see a relationship with god as being burdensome when they really have all their burdens taken care of if they will only let go and let god.

Maybe they read their Bibles.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.​