Christianity vs Baha'i

[CG Didymus]

I already posted that to you a couple of days ago. Here is the pertinent part of that post:

Jews believe that the Messiah is coming just for them, that He will be the redeemer of the Jewish people, just as the Christians believe that the Messiah is Jesus who will come to redeem the Christians.

The Messiah in Judaism (Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ‎, romanized: māšîaḥ (Mashiach)) is a savior and liberator figure in Jewish eschatology, who is believed to be the future redeemer of the Jewish people. The concept of messianism originated in Judaism,[1][2] and in the Hebrew Bible a messiah is a king or High Priest traditionally anointed with holy anointing oil.[3] However, messiahs were not exclusively Jewish, as the Hebrew Bible refers to Cyrus the Great, king of Persia, as a messiah[4] for his decree to rebuild the Jerusalem Temple.

In Jewish eschatology, the Messiah is a future Jewish king from the Davidic line, who is expected to be anointed with holy anointing oil and rule the Jewish people during the Messianic Age and world to come.[1][2][5] The Messiah is often referred to as "King Messiah" (Hebrew: מלך משיח‎, romanized: melekh mashiach) or malka meshiḥa in Aramaic.[6]

Messiah in Judaism - Wikipedia

The salient problem is that the scriptures of all the great religions speak of a world redeemer, a Messiah , and the beliefs of the Jews and Christians -- according to their interpretation of prophecies -- do not describe the Messiah those other religious people are waiting for according to their own prophecies.

Prophecy Fulfilled Webpage

Prophecies from World Religion and other sources

Of course, the difference between the Baha’is and the Jews and Christians is that we believe that the Messiah came to redeem the entire world.

#217 Trailblazer

But the Messiah restores Jerusalem, the Temple and sits on the throne of David and is not a "savior" or, I think they would include, not a manifestation. So how did we get to where the Messiah was a manifestation? That's a Baha'i concept. Hinduism has incarnations. Christians make Jesus part of a Godhead. What do Moslems say about Muhammad? I wouldn't think they make him a divine manifestation, probably only like a prophet.

 

[Trailblazer]

Baha'u'llah is in the spiritual world (heaven) with Jesus and God and all the other Messengers of God.

Why then does Daniel 7:13,14 talk about the ascension of 'one like the Son of man' going to his Father [the Ancient of days] 'with the clouds of heaven'.

'And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.'

Baha'is believe those verses refer to Baha'u'llah, who was one like the Son of man.

If 'all people' are to serve the Son of man, there isn't much room for serving other mediators.

That's right, there is no need for any other mediator except Baha'u'llah, not until God sends another mediator.

The question of great importance to the truth, is determining when the kingdom was established. This scripture shows that the kingdom was established the moment that Jesus Christ ascended to heaven and came to the 'Ancient of days'.

What kingdom was established?
Show me any scripture that you believe says that.

 

[Trailblazer]

But the Messiah restores Jerusalem, the Temple and sits on the throne of David and is not a "savior" or, I think they would include, not a manifestation.

That is just a Jewish concept, according to their interpretation of scripture. Baha'u'llah did sit on the throne of David, just not the way Jews believe he will sit.

“THE Most Great Law is come, and the Ancient Beauty ruleth upon the throne of David. Thus hath My Pen spoken that which the histories of bygone ages have related. At this time, however, David crieth aloud and saith: ‘O my loving Lord! Do Thou number me with such as have stood steadfast in Thy Cause, O Thou through Whom the faces have been illumined, and the footsteps have slipped!’” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 89-90

 

[CG Didymus]

No, that is not what it implies,

Well, all I can say is read Revelation and all the verses that mention the Lamb. If you still think it doesn't imply Jesus then fine. But in another thread I posted all the Lamb references to you and I thought that you agreed that they did refer to Jesus.

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus was the Savior of all people, that was part of His Mission.

Baha'u'llah's Mission was regeneration of the whole world and the establishment of the unity of its peoples.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Jesus is God and died for the whole world.

 

[CG Didymus]

Jesus did not write the Book of Revelation. Those verses do not refer to Jesus. Jesus said He was not coming back to this world.

“I, Jesus" is not Jesus?

Why does everyone fail to respond when I post these verses over and over and over again?

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

I've responded to this and I've read Christian responses to this. No matter what you think it says and means, the continuing story in all of the gospels has Jesus returning and meeting with them after he's been killed. I'm absolutely fine with all of it being BS. And actually I'd hate it if the fundamental Christian interpretation was the one that was true. But you, as a Baha'i, why would you take these verses from John and make them literally true but then not the verses that come later?

 

[Skywalker]

Yes, in Bahai view, Elijah returned already during Tribulation. The Bab was return of Elijah this time.

Do you think he was the reincarnation of Elijah? I dont believe in reincarnation, because of Hebrews 9 27 in the Bible. Was John the Baptist really Elijah reincarnated? | GotQuestions.org

Was John the Baptist really Elijah reincarnated?

Question: "Was John the Baptist really Elijah reincarnated?"

Answer: Matthew 11:7–14 declares, “Jesus began to speak to the crowd about John: ‘What did you go out into the desert to see? A reed swayed by the wind? If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear fine clothes are in kings’ palaces. Then what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. This is the one about whom it is written: “I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.” I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.’” Here Jesus quotes from Malachi 3:1, where the messenger appears to be a prophetic figure who is going to appear. According to Malachi 4:5, this messenger is “the prophet Elijah,” whom Jesus identifies as John the Baptist. Does this mean that John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnated? Not at all.

First, Jesus’ original hearers (and Matthew’s original readers) would never have assumed Jesus’ words to refer to reincarnation. Besides, Elijah did not die; he was taken to heaven in a whirlwind as he rode in a chariot of fire (2 Kings 2:11). Arguing for a reincarnation (or a resurrection) of Elijah misses that point. If anything, the prophecy of the Elijah “to come” would have been viewed as Elijah’s physical return to earth from heaven.

Second, the Bible is quite clear that John the Baptist is called “Elijah” because he came in the “spirit and power of Elijah” (Luke 1:17), not because he was Elijah in a literal sense. John the Baptist is the New Testament forerunner who points the way to the arrival of the Lord, just as Elijah filled that role in the Old Testament (and might again in the future—see Revelation 11).

Third, Elijah himself appears with Moses at Jesus’ transfiguration after John the Baptist’s death. This would not have happened if Elijah had changed his identity into that of John (Matthew 17:11–12).

Fourth, Mark 6:14–16 and 8:28 show that both the people and Herod distinguished between John the Baptist and Elijah.

Finally, proof that this John the Baptist was not Elijah reincarnated comes from John himself. In the first chapter of John the Apostle’s gospel, John the Baptist identifies himself as the messenger of Isaiah 40:3, not as the Elijah of Malachi 3:1. John the Baptist even goes so far as to specifically deny that he was Elijah (John 1:19–23).

John did for Jesus what Elijah was to have done for the coming of the Lord, but he was not Elijah reincarnated. Jesus identified John the Baptist as Elijah, while John the Baptist rejected that identification. How do we reconcile these two teachings? There is a key phrase in Jesus’ identification of John the Baptist that must not be overlooked. He says, “If you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah.” In other words, John the Baptist’s identification as Elijah was not predicated upon his being the actual Elijah, but upon people’s response to his role. To those who were willing to believe in Jesus, John the Baptist functioned as Elijah, for they believed in Jesus as Lord. To the religious leaders who rejected Jesus, John the Baptist did not perform this function.

 

[CG Didymus]

That is just a Jewish concept, according to their interpretation of scripture. Baha'u'llah did sit on the throne of David, just not the way Jews believe he will sit.

“THE Most Great Law is come, and the Ancient Beauty ruleth upon the throne of David. Thus hath My Pen spoken that which the histories of bygone ages have related. At this time, however, David crieth aloud and saith: ‘O my loving Lord! Do Thou number me with such as have stood steadfast in Thy Cause, O Thou through Whom the faces have been illumined, and the footsteps have slipped!’” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 89-90

Yes, a Jewish concept. Did the Jews make up the idea of a conquering Messiah? A hero that would restore the kingdom and rebuild the Temple?

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus was Christ the Son.

God gave Jesus that Title and Station and Annointed Jesus of the Holy Spirit.

They all had their time and Message given by God, who are we to say who is better or worse?

Regards Tony

The Son of God is a reference to the Sonship of God. JESUS THE "SON" OF GOD

JESUS THE "SON" OF GOD

by Silas

NOTE: Many of the themes in this article were taken from John Gilchrist's "The Christian Witness to the Muslim".

INTRODUCTION

Jesus called Himself the "Son of God" throughout the Gospels, (John 3:16-18), and the disciples also identified Him as the Son of God in their writings, (Rom 1:3).

Further, Jesus identified Himself as God revealed in the flesh, (John 8:58), and His disciples identified Him as God, (John 1:1, Phil 2:5-11). How could Jesus be The Son of God, and God at the same time? What does this term - "Son of God" mean? And if Jesus is the Son, in what way is Jesus God's Son? Did God have physical relations with Mary and get her pregnant?


Many Muslims do not understand what this term, according to Christian theology, actually means. They have asked me these or similar questions. This paper focuses on what the term "Son of God" signifies in Christian theology with respect to Muslim understanding.

MUSLIMS AND THE SON OF GOD

Muhammad, the founder of Islam, misunderstood what the term "Son of God" meant with respect to Christianity. He thought of it only in terms of sexual reproduction, i.e. that God fathered a child through sexual intercourse with Mary. Therefore he spoke out against it.

Christians also reject that God had physical intercourse with Mary, but we understand Christ being God's Son as an analogical term. We believe that the eternal Son of God, one with the Father from all eternity, united to Him in one Spirit, "became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:14), and took "the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men" (Philippians 2:7). We believe in the incarnation of the Son of God.

Muhammad did hear the Christians proclaim Jesus the Messiah as God's Son, but understanding or not, he specifically denied that Jesus was the Son of God. He said in the Quran,


Sura 2:116 - "They say: "God has begotten a son". Glory be to Him. No, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him."


and,

Sura 9:30 - "The Christians say the Messiah is the Son of God, that is a saying from their mouths."



Muhammad was unable to distinguish between the Christian belief in Jesus as the Son of God and the Arab Pagan belief in idols as offspring of God, i.e., Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat, (these were idols worshipped around Mecca as daughters of the supreme God - or Allah). Muhammad misunderstood that Christians in no way consider Jesus - the Son of God, in the same way the Arab Pagans understood their idols.

Muhammad's misconception of the Sonship of Christ is another proof that the Quran was not revealed to him by God, but rather it was built upon Muhammad's own concepts and ideology.

Because of Muhammad's misunderstanding, Islam places limits on God's power. In view of this, a Christian writer commented that "to assert that God has no Son because He has no wife is like saying that God is not living because He does not draw breath." Daniel, "Islam and the West, p.182.

WHAT THE TERM "SON OF GOD" SIGNIFIES

The expression "Son of God", is an analogical term. It indicates origin, a close association, or identification. In Christian theology it describes the relationship of two persons of the triune God. It expresses an intimate relationship between two persons: God the Father, and God the Son - Jesus the Messiah.

Here are several scriptures illustrating this facet of their relationship:

John 17:5 - "And now Father, glorify me in Your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began."

Here Jesus stated that He was with the Father before the world began.

Colossians 1:13-20 "For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead so that in everything He might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him and through him to reconcile to himself all things whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross."

Here, we see the term "Son of God", brought to light: "the image of the invisible God".

Hebrews 1:1-3 "In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son whom He appointed heir of all things and through whom He made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of His being, sustaining all things by His powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven."


Again, we see the relationship between the Father and the Son disclosed, "the exact representation of His being".

John 1:1-3, 10, 14, 18 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made; without Him, nothing was made that has been made......(10) He was in the world and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him....(14) The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father full of grace and truth......(18) No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side has made Him known."

John 14:8, 10 "Don't you know me Phillip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, "Show us the Father"? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?"


Jesus plainly told Phillip, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father".


From these verses we see that in Christ, the invisible God is revealed. Jesus was with the Father before the world began. Christ, as God the Son, is the Creator of all things. God in all His fullness, dwelt in Christ, reconciling the world. We see that Christ, as the Son of God - God's representation, is God manifest and revealed to the world. Angels, prophets, and things can reveal to us something about God. But God alone can reveal God. It takes God to reveal Himself to mankind. What better way for the eternal revealer to be revealed to mankind on earth than by clothing His self-expresion in human form?


JESUS AS THE WORD OF GOD

Muslims believe that the Quran - their Word of God - is eternal. The Quran also calls Jesus the Word of God. Since Muslims believe that the Quran is eternal, yet is able to enter into the limitations of time and space, and become available in book form, could not Jesus as the Word of God, be made manifest in human form? If on earth, Muslims believe that the uncreated Word of God - i.e., the Quran - is found as a book making it both uncreated and created, then cannot the uncreated Word of God be revealed as a human, if God willed it? That God has willed this is revealed in the testimony of the Gospels - God's eternal self-expression, His Word, His Son, has entered human form as Jesus the Messiah.

God the Father and God the Son are both God, but they are different persons. They are equal in essence, indeed of one essence, yet one is subject to the other's authority. The human analogy goes no further than this - an earthly father and his son are both human to the full, yet the second must bow to the authority of the first. Jesus is subject to the Father's authority. When He came to earth He came as the Father's ambassador to redeem men from sin and, being found in human form, took His subjection to the Father's authority to the point of a son to a father's relationship.

As the Son of God, Christ, the second person of the Trinity, possesses the same essence as the Father, yet is subject to the Father as an earthly son is subject to his father. Jesus is not the Son of God because of His mighty works and miracles, but He did those works because He is the Son of God.



The prime duty of a son is to honor and obey his father, to serve him freely and fully. The ideas of being a servant and a son are found throughout the Bible. Jesus as God the Son, served God the Father not out of compulsion but because of His unity with the Father, served out of love.

 

[Skywalker]

I am not here to change your choices.

I see they are foretold and can offer how and where in the Bible they have been.

Regards Tony

The Bible doesn't mention Mohammad, because Mohammad denied that Jesus is a Creator and a Savior. Muhammad in the Bible?

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, all I can say is read Revelation and all the verses that mention the Lamb. If you still think it doesn't imply Jesus then fine. But in another thread I posted all the Lamb references to you and I thought that you agreed that they did refer to Jesus.

If they talk about a second coming they do not refer to Jesus since Jesus said He was not coming back ti earth.

 

[Skywalker]

Yes, a Jewish concept. Did the Jews make up the idea of a conquering Messiah? A hero that would restore the kingdom and rebuild the Temple?

Jews today who reject Christ are similar to the Old Testament Jews in that they misunderstand His purpose. Jesus came for spiritual, not social, liberation. Jesus will conquer when He returns, and He will restore the kingdom and rebuild the Temple.

All Israel Shall Be Saved! The End Times Salvation of Israel

ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED! THE END TIMES SALVATION OF ISRAEL

October 15, 2017 By Beginning and End


The light of the Gospel will shine on Israel in the end times.

All through Scripture, the Bible prophesies that in the end times, a remnant of Jewish believers will come to a full acknowledgment of Jesus Christ as the prophesied Messiah and Savior of the Old Testament. The plan of salvation of God involved the Jews initially rejecting their Messiah and coming to a full saving faith as a nation during the final years before the Second Coming of The Lord. This article will explain the reconciliation of the remnant and their supernatural fate in the kingdom of the Antichrist.

THE REJECTION OF JESUS CHRIST LED TO SPIRITUAL BLINDNESS

Today, many devout Jewish people do not worship according to Scripture.

“Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.” – Matthew 23:34-39.

In this powerful passage The Lord Jesus Christ rebuked the nation of Israel for their rejection of Him and all of the prophets and men of God who pointed to the coming of the Savior throughout the Old Testament. This was the moment when The Christ should have been received by the twelve tribes. But because of their spiritual rebellion and false religion (promoted by the Pharisees and Sadducees) they “would not” receive the Savior. And not only did they reject The Lord, they demanded He put to death which was carried out by Pontius Pilate.

As a result, the Israelites would be cut off and punished (chiefly by the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem itself which took place in 70AD by the Roman Empire as prophesied by Jesus Christ). In the intervening centuries much of Jewish thought became guided by non-Biblical texts like the Talmud and Zohar. But note that in the very last verse of Matthew 23, Jesus told His Jewish audience that they would not “see” Him again until they said “Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.” In the midst of the rebuke and judgment was a glimmer of hope – one day Israel would indeed “see” Jesus Christ for who He truly Is: The Son of God and prophesied Messiah of The Old Testament.

THE SPIRITUAL BLINDNESS OF ISRAEL – START OF THE CHURCH AGE

The punishment of Israel led to the Lord giving the Gospel to the Gentile Church.

“What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?” – Romans 11:7-12.

The “slumber” and “blindness” of Israel is their collective, national rejection and opposition to the Gospel of Jesus Christ [B&E: Of course individual Jewish believers can and do come to saving faith in Jesus Christ on a regular basis]. However as the Apostle Paul explains, this opened the door for the Church Age – in which God will bring salvation to the Gentile nations. This is the present era we live in.

But in verse 12, Paul also acknowledges that Israel will eventually come to “fulness” – meaning a full understanding of God’s Word and saving faith in the true Messiah. Paul acknowledged this that was all a mystery in ancient times:

“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes.” – Romans 11:25-28.

The mystery – now revealed in the Church Age was that Israel (as a nation) would remain in Spiritual blindness until the Church Age was complete. The completion of the Church Age occurs at the Rapture. When God will remove the Church from the Earth and once again turn His Face back to Israel.

ISRAEL IN THE END TIMES

Contrary to popular thought, the Bible teaches that Israel – not the Church, is the focus of the end times.

The last fifteen chapters of the book of Ezekiel detail the spiritual awakening and reconciliation of Israel to God during the Great Tribulation and Millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ. Here are a sample verses that explain the reconciliation of Israel to God in the end times:

GOD WILL BRING ISRAEL BACK INTO THE PROMISED LAND AND APPOINT THE MESSIAH TO RULE OVER THEM
“And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it. And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.

“And I will make them and the places round about my hill a blessing; and I will cause the shower to come down in his season; there shall be showers of blessing…and shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke, and delivered them out of the hand of those that served themselves of them. And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make them afraid.

“…Thus shall they know that I the Lord their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord God. And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, are men, and I am your God, saith the Lord God.” – Ezekiel 34:23-31.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus is God and died for the whole world.

Jesus died for the whole world but Jesus is not God. Jesus is a Manifestation of God.

1 Timothy 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus as Christ is One with all Messengers. All praise of any Messenger reverts to praise of all the Messengers as they are the same Holy Spirit.

Regards Tony

Why do you believe Jesus is a messenger?

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus died for the whole world but Jesus is not God. Jesus is a Manifestation of God.

1 Timothy 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

That verse means that Jesus is God. Hypostatic union - Wikipedia

Hypostatic union
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hypostatic union (from the Greek: ὑπόστασις hypóstasis, "sediment, foundation, substance, subsistence") is a technical term in Christiantheology employed in mainstream Christology to describe the union of Christ's humanity and divinity in one hypostasis, or individual existence.[3]

The most basic explanation for the hypostatic union is Jesus Christ being both God and man. He is both perfectly divine and perfectly human.

The Athanasian Creed recognized this doctrine and affirmed its importance, stating that "He is God from the essence of the Father, begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity. Although he is God and human, yet Christ is not two, but one. He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself. He is one, certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person. For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human."

 

[Trailblazer]

“I, Jesus" is not Jesus?

No, "I" is not the same man Jesus. "I" is the Spirit of Christ returned in Baha'u'llah.

Rev 22:12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

I've responded to this and I've read Christian responses to this. No matter what you think it says and means, the continuing story in all of the gospels has Jesus returning and meeting with them after he's been killed. I'm absolutely fine with all of it being BS. And actually I'd hate it if the fundamental Christian interpretation was the one that was true. But you, as a Baha'i, why would you take these verses from John and make them literally true but then not the verses that come later?

No, no verses have Jesus returning to earth after He ascended to heaven.

What verses come later, the resurrection storybook verses?
Jesus says He is leaving in John. He never says He is coming back, but Christians tried to bring His body back to life by writing stories.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, a Jewish concept. Did the Jews make up the idea of a conquering Messiah? A hero that would restore the kingdom and rebuild the Temple?

Yes, Jews made the messiah in their own image, just like the Christians..

 

[Trailblazer]

That verse means that Jesus is God. Hypostatic union - Wikipedia

The verse cited does not say Jesus is God... It says God was manifest in the flesh.

1 Timothy 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Only God is God and God is spirit. God does not become a man because then God would not be God.

“Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.” He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 49

“The Christian equivalent to the Bahá'í concept of Manifestation is the concept of incarnation. The word to incarnate means 'to embody in flesh or 'to assume, or exist in, a bodily (esp. a human) form (Oxford English Dictionary). From a Bahá'í point of view, the important question regarding the subject of incarnation is, what does Jesus incarnate? Bahá'ís can certainly say that Jesus incarnated Gods attributes, in the sense that in Jesus, Gods attributes were perfectly reflected and expressed.[4] The Bahá'í scriptures, however, reject the belief that the ineffable essence of the Divinity was ever perfectly and completely contained in a single human body, because the Bahá'í scriptures emphasize the omnipresence and transcendence of the essence of God…..

Jesus Christ in the Bahá'í Writings

 

[Skywalker]

The verse cited does not say Jesus is God... It says God was manifest in the flesh.

1 Timothy 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Only God is God and God is spirit. God does not become a man because then God would not be God.

“Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.” He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 49

“The Christian equivalent to the Bahá'í concept of Manifestation is the concept of incarnation. The word to incarnate means 'to embody in flesh or 'to assume, or exist in, a bodily (esp. a human) form (Oxford English Dictionary). From a Bahá'í point of view, the important question regarding the subject of incarnation is, what does Jesus incarnate? Bahá'ís can certainly say that Jesus incarnated Gods attributes, in the sense that in Jesus, Gods attributes were perfectly reflected and expressed.[4] The Bahá'í scriptures, however, reject the belief that the ineffable essence of the Divinity was ever perfectly and completely contained in a single human body, because the Bahá'í scriptures emphasize the omnipresence and transcendence of the essence of God…..

Jesus Christ in the Bahá'í Writings

There are Bible verses that talk about Jesus being God. Jesus Is Almighty God!

Statement Verse
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1:23
And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people. Luke 7:16
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John 1:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. John 5:18
I and my Father are one. John 10:30
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. John 10:33
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. John 13:13
Jesus said to him, "...He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, `Show us the Father?'" John 14:9
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5
And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], My Lord and my God. John 20:28
...lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Corinthians 4:4
...Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Philippians 2:5,6
...after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9
God was manifest in the flesh... 1 Timothy 3:16
...our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 1st Timothy 6:14,15
God...Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son... Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person... Hebrews 1:1-3
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever... Hebrews 1:8
...the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2:13
Simon Peter... through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2nd Peter 1:1
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Revelation 1:8
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:16

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.” —John 1:1

 

[Trailblazer]

There are Bible verses that talk about Jesus being God. Jesus Is Almighty God!

There are Bible verses that talk about Jesus not being God.

REASONS WHY JESUS IS NOT GOD

Jesus claimed to reveal God, Whom He called Father, but Jesus differentiated Himself from God:

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself, even so gave he to the Son also to have life in himself:

John 8:40 But now ye seek to slay me, a man that have spoken to you [the] truth, that I heard of God; Abraham did not this thing.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God,believe also in me.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Jesus said that God was greater than He was:

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

How could Jesus pray to and go to the Father if Jesus WAS the God the Father?

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Moreover, Jesus said that no man has ever seen God:

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Jesus said He was from God and that God sent Him, again differentiating Himself from God:

John 17:3 And eternal life means to know you, the only true God, and to know Jesus Christ, whom you sent.

John 7:28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. 29 But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me.

Jesus even stated specifically that the Father had knowledge which was not possessed by the Son.

Matthew 24:36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Jesus referred to Himself as a Prophet, and was so regarded. Jesus never referred to Himself as God.

Matthew 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Matthew 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

Luke 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

MORE REASONS WHY JESUS IS NOT GOD:

2 Corinthians 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

2 Corinthians 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Hosea 11:9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?