• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Christians: about Hitler…

Alien826

No religious beliefs
Yes I guess Karma would take your motives etc into account. That Karma is pretty smart and aware for a "law".

You made me think, so I looked it up. here's something from Wikipedia, which bears out my thoughts.

Karma (/ ˈ k ɑːr m ə /; Sanskrit: कर्म, IPA: (); Pali: kamma) in Sanskrit means an action, work, or deed, and its effect or consequences. In Indian religions, the term more specifically refers to a principle of cause and effect, often descriptively called the principle of karma, wherein intent and actions of an individual (cause) influence the future of that individual

It covers intent as well as actions.

The idea is that it is built in to the universe in a similar, but more subtle way, to gravity. In other words our intents and actions have results automatically, not as a decision of some divine power. It helps to remember that it goes with the belief in reincarnation, so if it seems that someone has "got away with" a lot of bad things, he hasn't really. ;)
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
That’s why Christians are accountable for personally reading and knowing the scriptures, rather than automatically following the hierarchy of a denomination or church. As you seem to be aware; hate is against Christ. Even when speaking about sin, Christians are to speak the truth in love and show concern and kindness, as Jesus did.
But it doesn't work. Christians range from liberals to extremists, and there is a lot of dispute among them. The more conservative the Christian the less Christ-like they tend to be. So there is no accountability as you claim. There is broad disagreement and no authority over the whole umbrella of Christianity. Do you answer to the pope? Catholics have their interpretation, liberal prostestants have their interpretations. Conservatives have their interpretations, and so on. It is a free-for-all, with no single correct way to read and interpret the Bible, so no accountability is to be had.

From my perspective, it’s not like God isn’t aware of the many faults of Christians, just as you seem well aware of and keep pointing out.
Christians are often violating their own ethics, like pride, greed, lying and deception, selfishness, etc. Christians work hard to impose their beliefs onto all of America politics and law, so that invites criticism. If you Christians minded your own business and let government be secular then you would invite less criticism. So you be accountable for youyr own actions as equal members in society to atheists and honor the freedom our nation stands for.

Christians get to believe whatever they want, but as soon as they cross the line and work to impose these personal beliefs onto the rest of a diverse society then all bets are off, and these Christians are now political agents that will invite opposition. This has nothing to do with any Gods, this is citizens taking their religious beliefs and using politics to impose their religion on others.


The Bible states...

For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
1 Peter 4:17
If Christians think this is real and true, and they believe it, it still ONLY applies to them, and to no one else. The Bible is irrelevant to any human who does not assign it meaning and significance. That is freedom in the USA.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Its not God that has trouble forgiving. People have trouble forgiving. Some things are just too hard to forgive.

Suppose you crap on every porch in your town, but God forgives you. How are you going to re connect with all of your neighbors? Why would they feel safe letting you live near to them?
I figure now that Hitler had a feeling, shall we say, as to what to expect if he lived. As for God's viewpoint, who knows yet? He might be resurrected. If he is not, I am assured he (Hitler) is gone. But time will tell.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
Christians get to believe whatever they want, but as soon as they cross the line and work to impose these personal beliefs onto the rest of a diverse society then all bets are off, and these Christians are now political agents that will invite opposition. This has nothing to do with any Gods, this is citizens taking their religious beliefs and using politics to impose their religion on others.
I believe in democracy..
If a nation votes for a party with secular values, then that is what they get .. and religious people should accept it.
If a nation votes for a party with religious values, then that is what they get .. and secular people should accept it.

However, it is human nature to be disappointed if "your lot" doesn't win an election. We need patience and humility.
It works both ways!
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I figure now that Hitler had a feeling, shall we say, as to what to expect if he lived. As for God's viewpoint, who knows yet? He might be resurrected. If he is not, I am assured he (Hitler) is gone. But time will tell.
The following scriptures have something to do with it. Jesus listeners are expected to forgive one another, and forgiveness is in their power. Jesus disciples are the bottleneck if they refuse to forgive -- not God.
[Mat 16:19 NIV] 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
[Mar 2:10 NIV] 10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins." So he said to the man,
[Jhn 20:23 NIV] 23 If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."
[2Co 2:10 NIV] 10 Anyone you forgive, I also forgive. And what I have forgiven--if there was anything to forgive--I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake,
[Col 3:13 NIV] 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
[Jhn 8:7-8 NIV] 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

 
Last edited:

F1fan

Veteran Member
I believe in democracy..
If a nation votes for a party with secular values, then that is what they get .. and religious people should accept it.
If a nation votes for a party with religious values, then that is what they get .. and secular people should accept it.
What would the difference be?

But still, citizens don't vote for a secular or religious government, the constitution establishes the rules for how we function as a government, and we are supposed to be secular.

I have seen religious people with disgusting values and some with excellent values. there is no singular set of religious values. We can see Iran and Afghanistan (among others) for what theocracies do to human rights. Secular government is by far the most advantageous for all, including religious people.

However, it is human nature to be disappointed if "your lot" doesn't win an election. We need patience and humility.
It works both ways!
Humans evolved to be tribal. It is the higher mind that that has awareness and knowledge and can can adjust behavior accoringly.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Hello Christian, there’s a hypothetical I wanted to pose to you today.

What if Hitler didn’t kill himself - and became a repentant Christian after the war? Would he be forgiven by God?

I recall hearing in church that God’s mercy is eternal. So eternal that He sent His son to die for the sin of all mankind. If this is true, then it would have been possible for Hitler to have been forgiven, right?
I think there are people who have simply become so evil, that it is impossible for them to repent. IOW lost causes. Hitler would be an example.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
You made me think, so I looked it up. here's something from Wikipedia, which bears out my thoughts.



It covers intent as well as actions.

The idea is that it is built in to the universe in a similar, but more subtle way, to gravity. In other words our intents and actions have results automatically, not as a decision of some divine power. It helps to remember that it goes with the belief in reincarnation, so if it seems that someone has "got away with" a lot of bad things, he hasn't really. ;)

Even plants and microbes have Karma and rebirth.
Justice is part of most religions I guess but in Christianity it does not extend to plants and microbes. Even if they do a lot of bad things in their lives they get away with it.
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
Even plants and microbes have Karma and rebirth.
Justice is part of most religions I guess but in Christianity it does not extend to plants and microbes. Even if they do a lot of bad things in their lives they get away with it.

Difficult to imagine how a plant could do a "good" or "bad" thing. They just grow and survive, or don't! :)
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Difficult to imagine how a plant could do a "good" or "bad" thing. They just grow and survive, or don't! :)

That is what I would have thought also but it seems that plants are more individual in attitude than we probably thought.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
But it doesn't work. Christians range from liberals to extremists, and there is a lot of dispute among them. The more conservative the Christian the less Christ-like they tend to be. So there is no accountability as you claim. There is broad disagreement and no authority over the whole umbrella of Christianity. Do you answer to the pope? Catholics have their interpretation, liberal prostestants have their interpretations. Conservatives have their interpretations, and so on. It is a free-for-all, with no single correct way to read and interpret the Bible, so no accountability is to be had.


Christians are often violating their own ethics, like pride, greed, lying and deception, selfishness, etc. Christians work hard to impose their beliefs onto all of America politics and law, so that invites criticism. If you Christians minded your own business and let government be secular then you would invite less criticism. So you be accountable for youyr own actions as equal members in society to atheists and honor the freedom our nation stands for.

Christians get to believe whatever they want, but as soon as they cross the line and work to impose these personal beliefs onto the rest of a diverse society then all bets are off, and these Christians are now political agents that will invite opposition. This has nothing to do with any Gods, this is citizens taking their religious beliefs and using politics to impose their religion on others.



If Christians think this is real and true, and they believe it, it still ONLY applies to them, and to no one else. The Bible is irrelevant to any human who does not assign it meaning and significance. That is freedom in the USA.
I think it does matter.
Whatever Christians believe, whatever their actions, liberal or extremist views, how they handle or mishandle the scriptures or whatever non-theists believe or don’t believe and whatever their actions, or how they respond or reject the scriptures; all are accountable to their Creator.
You, obviously don’t have to agree. Yet, that’s my perspective.

Have a good night.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
There is broad disagreement and no authority over the whole umbrella of Christianity. .
I disagree. Catholicism is united by its catechism. Sure you find Catholics that don't believe this or that, but they can't say that their beliefs are catholic unless its what the catechism teaches. Thus you have liberal and conservative Catholics all receiving communion from the same hands, and sitting next to each other on the same pews.

That's very different from Protestantism, which has no authority other than the Bible. With tens of thousands of denominations, sola scriptura obviously is not sufficient for unity.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
I disagree. Catholicism is united by its catechism. Sure you find Catholics that don't believe this or that, but they can't say that their beliefs are catholic unless its what the catechism teaches. Thus you have liberal and conservative Catholics all receiving communion from the same hands, and sitting next to each other on the same pews.

That's very different from Protestantism, which has no authority other than the Bible. With tens of thousands of denominations, sola scriptura obviously is not sufficient for unity.

Just as with Judaism there is a diversity of views on what certain parts of scripture mean but there is unity under the one Lord.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Just as with Judaism there is a diversity of views on what certain parts of scripture mean but there is unity under the one Lord.
What unity? Christians cannot even agree on what makes a person a Christian. I stand by what I said.
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
I think it does matter.
Whatever Christians believe, whatever their actions, liberal or extremist views, how they handle or mishandle the scriptures or whatever non-theists believe or don’t believe and whatever their actions, or how they respond or reject the scriptures; all are accountable to their Creator.
You, obviously don’t have to agree. Yet, that’s my perspective.

But the existence of this "creator" is supposedly supported by these very scriptures. Do you see how this is circular reasoning?
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Before sharing your presumed Christian drivel about how we Jews and our God should forgive Hitler, perhaps you might at least give us time to properly consider forgiving the significantly Christian world that paved his way and otherwise facilitated him.
@Brian2, it's been brought to my attention (by @Rachel Rugelach) that my "Christian drivel" characterization was uncalled for. Please accept my apology.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
But the existence of this "creator" is supposedly supported by these very scriptures. Do you see how this is circular reasoning?
No, because besides creation supporting the concept of a Creator, the biblical scriptures provide very reasonable historical, archeological, eyewitness, and practical evidences to their validity.
 
Top