Christians and Jews Who Sanction Homosexual Sex

[sojourner]

I believe sinners who wish to legitimize their sin will go to any lengths to get the Bible to say what they want it to say but Jesus testifies to me directly that it is a sin.

You’re not a prophet. I’m not buying “Jesus told me” under any circumstances involving the public or any community. For yourself? Ok. For me? Absolutely not!

 

[sojourner]

I believe the concept of gay people not having sex is very unlikely and the very public attempt to legitimize their activities makes it my business.

No. It doesnt. That’s imposing your beliefs onto someone else, which Jesus does not condone, nor does the Constitution.

 

[sojourner]

I believe they salve their consciences by believing it isn't a sin. I had a thief tell me it was OK to steal if one was hungry. The abortionist say it is ok to murder children because they are just lumps of flesh. It is easy to deceive oneself to cover up sin but God is not deceived.

They don’t believe it’s a sin; I don’t believe it’s a sin — and I’m not gay, nor do I have any inclination toward same sex activity. Just because YOU believe it’s a sin doesn’t make it automatically, universally sinful.

 

[columbus]

You’re not a prophet. I’m not buying “Jesus told me” under any circumstances involving the public or any community. For yourself? Ok. For me? Absolutely not!

I think that's what this thread is really about.

People like @Muffled who put forward their own personal opinions, but start their assertions with some variation on "God says...". And then go on to quote some human like Moses or Paul.
Tom

 

[sojourner]

I think that's what this thread is really about.

People like @Muffled who put forward their own personal opinions, but start their assertions with some variation on "God says...". And then go on to quote some human like Moses or Paul.
Tom

Jesus taught moral and ethical responsibility, which includes not foisting your morality and ethics upon others. If God told him something, fine! But no one has sanctioned him to speak for the rest of us.

 

[metis]

...and the very public attempt to legitimize their activities makes it my business.

So why is it your business? How are you affected by whether they're living together or even having sex together?

 

[Skwim]

I believe they salve their consciences by believing it isn't a sin. I had a thief tell me it was OK to steal if one was hungry.

Absolutely! Their efforts to disengage god's hatred of homosexual sex from reality screams desperation:

"I can't help being a practicing homosexual and I want to be a faithful Christian, but I can't if I take the Bible at its word. So, in as much as I can't change my homosexuality I'll change the Bible . . . . . no matter how ridiculous it may be. Because all I have to do is sell myself on the idea, plus, of course, any naysayers who threaten my illusion."​

But don't get me wrong, I have nothing against these people, their conflicting circumstances, or their creative solutions, it's just that they assume others, such as myself, are gullible enough to buy into them.

.

 

[1robin]

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Knowing how much god hates homosexual sex, and that it's almost a given that every homosexual couple engage in it, how can any Christian denomination or Jewish movement sanction same-sex marriages, in effect sanctioning homosexual sex?

Those religious Abrahamic religious organizations that sanction same-sex marriage.

Alliance of baptists
Conservative Judaism
Episcopal Church
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Presbyterian Church (USA)
Reform Judaism
United Church of Christ (Congregational Church)
And perhaps the United Methodist Church (We'll know in February, 2019)

.​

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Hello Skwim, It is a distant secondary concern as to what denominations believe about homosexuality. It only really matters what God thinks about it. Are you simply trying to show that sometime the doctrines of man contradict the doctrines of God. If so I agree whole heartedly but that seems like such a trivial point to make. The denomination that perfectly reflects God's revelation simply does not exist. If you want to discuss why it is that some of God's children defy God's messages let me know.

 

[1robin]

Jesus taught moral and ethical responsibility, which includes not foisting your morality and ethics upon others. If God told him something, fine! But no one has sanctioned him to speak for the rest of us.

Christ most certainly laid out what the moral values and duties others should have. Heck 50% of Christ's messages concerned the moral of mankind. However your right that Christ did not physically force his morality on others. He simply demonstrated that objective moral facts exists and lived consistently with them as an example to everyone else. He also claimed that no one would escape justice concerning those moral edicts.

 

[sojourner]

Christ most certainly laid out what the moral values and duties others should have. Heck 50% of Christ's messages concerned the moral of mankind. However your right that Christ did not physically force his morality on others. He simply demonstrated that objective moral facts exists and lived consistently with them as an example to everyone else. He also claimed that no one would escape justice concerning those moral edicts.

No, not “him” Jesus, “him” @Muffled.

 

[1robin]

No, not “him” Jesus, “him” @Muffled.

Ok, I think I understand your distinction but could you elaborate a little.

 

[sojourner]

Ok, I think I understand your distinction but could you elaborate a little.

The poster said that Jesus had spoken to him and told him that homosexuality was a sin, and that the public sanctioning of it made what others do in the privacy of their bedrooms his business. I said that he’s not a prophet, and so does not speak for the community. If it’s a sin for him, Personally, ok. But he can’t speak for the community.

 

[1robin]

The poster said that Jesus had spoken to him and told him that homosexuality was a sin, and that the public sanctioning of it made what others do in the privacy of their bedrooms his business. I said that he’s not a prophet, and so does not speak for the community. If it’s a sin for him, Personally, ok. But he can’t speak for the community.

Ok, I see now. Thanks for the clarification and I agree with you.

Unless this person was anointed to do so he should not make what happens in another's bedroom his business. I believe that homosexuality is wrong but it is not my job to condemn anyone or any act. However I believe that it can be shown to be unjustifiable even on a secular level. Do you agree?

 

[SomeRandom]

I believe the concept of gay people not having sex is very unlikely and the very public attempt to legitimize their activities makes it my business.

Umm, no it is absolutely none of your business who sleeps with whom. You are not in fact God almighty. The restrictions from the Bible only apply to those who actually follow the Bible.
Honestly you don't see me coming to your Church and telling you how to worship, do you?

 

[SomeRandom]

@Skwim Buddy. I'm all for sowing discord and stirring the pot, but why stoke the coals of anti gay sentiment? We are making large leaps and bounds in terms of reducing the persecution of gay people. So why try to embolden some of it back, as it were?
I get the intellectual curiosity, I get the whole "I'm going to point out the hypocrisy because you guys always bang on about the Bible" thing, but surely people abandoning anti LGBT sentiment is a good thing?

 

[sojourner]

Ok, I see now. Thanks for the clarification and I agree with you.

Unless this person was anointed to do so he should not make what happens in another's bedroom his business. I believe that homosexuality is wrong but it is not my job to condemn anyone or any act. However I believe that it can be shown to be unjustifiable even on a secular level. Do you agree?

Nope strongly disagree. I think it’s completely justifiable, theologically, ethically, morally, legally, socially.

 

[sojourner]

Absolutely! Their efforts to disengage god's hatred of homosexual sex from reality screams desperation:

"I can't help being a practicing homosexual and I want to be a faithful Christian, but I can't if I take the Bible at its word. So, in as much as I can't change my homosexuality I'll change the Bible . . . . . no matter how ridiculous it may be. Because all I have to do is sell myself on the idea, plus, of course, any naysayers who threaten my illusion."​

But don't get me wrong, I have nothing against these people, their conflicting circumstances, or their creative solutions, it's just that they assume others, such as myself, are gullible enough to buy into them.

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I don’t think it’s a matter of changing the Bible, so much as it is broadening the interpretational platform through the exegetical process, especially through historic and linguistic criticism.

 

[Skwim]

Hello Skwim, It is a distant secondary concern as to what denominations believe about homosexuality.It only really matters what God thinks about it.

Not to the faithful. Christians seldom if ever look into the Bible or other religious sources to try to determine what god thinks about this, that, and the other thing. Far, far more commonly they'll simply rely on what their preacher/minister tells them. And what preachers and ministers tell their flock is invariably what their denomination has decided. So, if there's any concern about belief it's what denominations believe.

If you want to discuss why it is that some of God's children defy God's messages let me know.

If they do defy God's message it's for the reason I've given above. As we've witnessed through the years Christian denominations have had no trouble changing their interpretation of scripture to concur with the prevailing moral wind. So, that they have ignored the passages I've presented or have come up with some kind of crazy apologetics to allow agreement with them comes as no surprise. In my opinion it's hardly the ethical or virtuous thing to do, but right now religious denominations are fighting for their lives, and are being pushed to conform to the society's demands regardless of the loss in integrity they may suffer.

.

 

[1robin]

Nope strongly disagree. I think it’s completely justifiable, theologically, ethically, morally, legally, socially.

Ok, do you want to try and defend your position against my argument?

Also, I thought you were a Christian. The bible clearly condemns homosexuality so why do you disagree.

 

[1robin]

Not to the faithful. Christians seldom if ever look into the Bible or other religious sources to try to determine what god thinks about this, that, and the other thing. Far, far more commonly they'll simply rely on what their preacher/minister tells them. And what preachers and ministers tell their flock is invariably what their denomination has decided. So, if there's any concern about belief it's what denominations believe.

I strongly disagree (most Christians look to the bible for moral duties and values) but I wasn't defending what Christians do. I was defending what God has to say about the issue. I agree that Christians fail to be consistent but I disagree to the degree at which they fail. Exactly what is it you want to discuss?

If they do defy God's message it's for the reason I've given above.

Is this a question or a declaration?

As we've witnessed through the years Christian denominations have had no trouble changing their interpretation of scripture to concur with the prevailing moral wind. So, that they have ignored the passages I've presented or have come up with some kind of crazy apologetics to allow agreement with them comes as no surprise. In my opinion it's hardly the ethical or virtuous thing to do, but right now religious denominations are fighting for their lives, and are being pushed to conform to the society's demands regardless of the loss in integrity they may suffer.

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Again, I disagree but was not defending what the average Christian does. You don't need to attack Christian behavior because I am not defending it. I agree with you that many times the average Christian is imperfect.

Do you want to discuss what God thinks about homosexuality?
Or
Do you want me to condemn homosexuality and you defend it?
Or
Or do you want me to defend Christian behavior?

I am not sure where this discussion is going.