Christians, anything wrong with the following?

[Shadow Wolf]

Perhaps your mother did not encounter the evil one as often and violently as our Lord does?

Wouldn't that make God pretty weak? He's supposed to be god, but encounters with the "evil one" puts him in a fowl mood and not quite so loving and benevolent?

God wants us to endure trials and difficulties for the sake of becoming a being more grateful for goodness and more noble having taken up the cross.

Odd. I became a much better person and far more thankful and grateful for what I have after I evicted the Holy Ghost from my heart, gave Jesus the boot, and reclaimed possession of myself from Jehovah.

Without doubt the devil influences the hearts and minds of men, but only to some degree of temptation.

Or it could just be we are humans, nothing more than regular people, nothing special, and there is no "devil" influencing us but only our own limited perspectives, knowledge, and the faults that come inherent with being human (such as our memory that does not work as well as we like the think and pretend).

To those furthest removed from piety and love God those temptations become much easier to indulge in.

What temptations are we referring to? Drunkenness I no longer partake in. I don't steal from others. And unless necessary to be otherwise, am honest with people. Personally, I find it much easier to shrug of "temptation" now that I'm not worried about a devil or salvation.

To those close to God, they carry much greater guilt having acquiesced --- and the more often they pray for forgiveness with a truly contrite heart, the more graces they receive and the ability to resist temptations in the future becomes easier.

I doubt they really carry any greater guilt. Nor do I accept you have to pray for forgiveness in order to "resist temptation." Nor do I accept that being a Christian makes you any better at it just for being Christian.

 

[Skwim]

Here is why I find your reasoning or meme to be bogus.

Who is Jesus talking to in those words? He is talking to those who been exposed to the teachings in various ways but currently have no use for Him or involvement with His teachings.

What's your evidence?

Obviously, if you are in some primitive tribe in Africa or a destitute Hindu in Delhi you may never hear Jesus Christ “knocking” in some clear or profound way. So the knock is for you, not them. But you want to make this out to be as though it is one or two moments in one’s life where one has ample reason to consider the message or the evidence and says “no way.” No. It is a message or evidence that has been presented in many ways on many occasions with true reason that the selfish man or the lazy man says “no” to. So your excuses wear thin.

While interesting, your over-analysis here is screwy. The fact remains that

Let me in.

Why?

So I can save you.

From what.

From what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in.
​

is exactly the premise of Operation Christian Salvation.

Secondly, you want to make it sound like some person was better off never having heard of Jesus Christ and being totally blameless. First of all, no one is totally blameless once they reach an age of accountability. Also, only an atheist could make such a remark.

Then I must actually be an atheist and not an agnostic as I say. Another strange analysis.

If there is a God above then there is deep purpose for our time here on earth faced with struggles, fears and choices.

Nice to see you hedging your belief.

Jesus did not come down from heaven suffer and die for no intended purpose.

So the story goes.

You see, what you and most of the world does not understand is that there is a purgatory, not just a heaven and a hell.

Ah yes, the old Catholic way-station whereby those not destined for hell can purify themselves before being admitted to the joys of heaven.

.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

You didn't lose it. You never had it. When Adam and Eve had children, both were sinful and in the process of dying. They could not produce sinless children.

Strange, Mary was a presumably sinful woman and yet she gave birth to Jesus who was sinless. So apparently it is possible for a sinful parent to produce sinless offspring. Some strands of Christianity even propose that Mary herself was sinless, despite being born of sinful parents. So even then it seems there can be exceptions where it is convenient.

If not for Jehovah's undeserved mercy, none of us would have any hope, IMO.

If not for our undeserved punishment we wouldn't need this 'undeserved mercy' in the first place.

I believe because Jehovah provided what was needed to save us from sin, and give us what Adam squandered, we can have hope. (Romans 6:23)

Did Jehovah provide us all unconditional forgiveness? No. According to Christian theology he has deliberately kept us in a sinful state in order to blackmail us into accepting an arrangement where we have to admit the failings he conditioned us with are our own fault. If God is all-powerful & all-knowing then he deserves all the blame for our current state - having created us knowing we would end up as such and doing nothing to rectify this.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Some people are murderers, others are rapists, child molesters, thieves, you name it. Is it your postion such ones should not be punished for being what they are? "Everlasting destruction", not torment, is the punishment for willful sin. (2 Thessalonians 1:6-9)

If I were a god, punishment would not be in my arsenal. I wouldn't need it.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I don't know what bellying up means in this context.

Giving up.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

It does not matter what I or any other Christian says, it matters what God revealed.

Not to me. What you like people say and do is what matters, not words

[QUOTE="1robin, post: 5145808, member: 36676]But you seem to have no interest in what the bible actually says. You never ask for scriptures to back up my claims, and when I provide them on my own initiative you seemingly ignore them, and change the topic.[/QUOTE]

I don't consider the Bible authoritative, so its words only have limited applicability to me. Was there a passage that you wanted to discuss that I didn't comment about?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

If there is a God above then there is deep purpose for our time here on earth faced with struggles, fears and choices.

But not my purpose. I'm not too interested in who needs to be worshiped.

 

[Muffled]

Here, take a bite of this **** sandwich. What? You don't want to? Why do you hate humanity so much?

I believe it means that you favor rape, murder, incest beastiality, torture and a whole bunch of other bad things for humanity because you won't swallow the sandwich.

 

[Muffled]

So rational people? How could those that have advanced humanity be its enemy?

I believe I am very rational and believe your reasons are flawed.

I believe you do not advance humanity if you do not believe in punishing the wicked.

 

[Muffled]

But not my purpose. I'm not too interested in who needs to be worshiped.

I believe the intent was to say that God has a purpose for you not that it is your purpose.

I believe it is in your best interest whether you desires go that way or not.

 

[Father Heathen]

I believe you do not advance humanity if you do not believe in punishing the wicked.

Depends on what you consider "wicked" and why, and if the punishment is actually proportionate to the offense.

 

[Father Heathen]

I believe it means that you favor rape, murder, incest beastiality, torture and a whole bunch of other bad things for humanity because you won't swallow the sandwich.

The fact that the analogy flew over your head only adds to the irony.

 

[rusra02]

Strange, Mary was a presumably sinful woman and yet she gave birth to Jesus who was sinless. So apparently it is possible for a sinful parent to produce sinless offspring. Some strands of Christianity even propose that Mary herself was sinless, despite being born of sinful parents. So even then it seems there can be exceptions where it is convenient.
.

Jesus conception was miraculous, of course. The angel sent to Mary explained; "Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy, God’s Son." I believe God's holy spirit shielded Jesus from Mary's imperfections. (Luke 1:35)
Jehovah can choose not to foreknow, just as he can choose to foreknow. The Bible reveals God does not choose to foreknow every event that will ever occur, IMO.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I believe you do not advance humanity if you do not believe in punishing the wicked.

I believe the opposite.

The idea of a god that punishes, especially one that punishes gratuitously and disproportionately, is a terrible idea, and one of the worst traits of this deity to imitate.

I realize how ruffled people get when a mere human presumes to usurp the role of God, but nevertheless, as a god, I would not punish. I can't see why I would when I could just rehabilitate, something I should have done before the offense if such things mattered to me.

Retributive justice is barbaric. The purpose of corrective intervention is to serve as a disincentive to those considering similar inappropriate behavior int eh future, to remove societal dangers from the streets, and to rehabilitate if possible. None of these has the purpose of causing suffering.

The idea of keeping souls conscious after death just to torture them to the benefit of nobody but sadists is, as I suggested, barbaric, and is a poor example for man to imitate.

 

[MJFlores]

This is an image (created in 2013 I believe) that first appeared on the Betty Bowers ("America's Best Christian") web site, which has since found itself popping up across the internet---it was recently posted in a thread here on RF. It's a parody of the For Dummies instructional/reference books.

I realize some Christians might take exception to it, perhaps as an abuse of a well known theme of Jesus knocking on the door, but aside from that, as a succinct summery of Christian salvation I believe it's spot on.

Any disagreements?

.

That is the problem with the Trinity and the Triune god.

Even Pope A Dope agrees with the picture.

Can't see anything Theologically incorrect there

 

[Kenny]

While interesting, your over-analysis here is screwy. The fact remains that

Let me in.

Why?

So I can save you.

From what.

From what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in.
​

is exactly the premise of Operation Christian Salvation.
.

Let me see...

Judge finds man who is about to rob a bank...

Judge says "Please don't do it, I'll help you find a job, I'll you find another way, I'll even forgive you for whatever other things you are violating if you will just listen. If you go in this direction, you will find yourself in jail". Man knocks him to the ground and robs bank.

As thief is exiting, policemen capture the guy and send him to jail.

Man stand in from of judge for robbing a bank.... judge is the one knocked to the ground who was trying to help.

Skwim accuses judge of "YOU DID IT TO ME" when it was the thief who did it to himself.

Salvation and the Gospel according to Skwim.

 

[Skwim]

Let me see...

Judge finds man who is about to rob a bank...

Judge says "Please don't do it, I'll help you find a job, I'll you find another way, I'll even forgive you for whatever other things you are violating if you will just listen. If you go in this direction, you will find yourself in jail". Man knocks him to the ground and robs bank.

As thief is exiting, policemen capture the guy and send him to jail.

Man stand in from of judge for robbing a bank.... judge is the one knocked to the ground who was trying to help.

Skwim accuses judge of "YOU DID IT TO ME" when it was the thief who did it to himself.

Salvation and the Gospel according to Skwim.

While interesting, you've neglected the setup.

For reference.
The original exchange in Salvation For Dummies.

"Let me in."
"Why?"
"So I can save you."
"From what?"
"From what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in!"
​

A far better analogy:

The setup: A judge straps dynamite to a guy, which he can trigger remotely, and then forces him to rob banks.

The exchange:

The judge then tells the guy, "It's imperative that I talk to you." ("Let me in")

The guy asks, "Why should I care if you want to talk to me?" ("Why?")

The judge says, "So I can save you." ("So I can save you.")

The guy asks, "From what?" ("From what?")

The judge says, "From sending you to jail because you robbed banks." ("From what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in!")

.​

 

[Searching1981]

This is an image (created in 2013 I believe) that first appeared on the Betty Bowers ("America's Best Christian") web site, which has since found itself popping up across the internet---it was recently posted in a thread here on RF. It's a parody of the For Dummies instructional/reference books.

I realize some Christians might take exception to it, perhaps as an abuse of a well known theme of Jesus knocking on the door, but aside from that, as a succinct summery of Christian salvation I believe it's spot on.

Any disagreements?

.

I can't relate to this on any level 1) I don't know who Betty Bowers is 2) I suppose if I did I wouldn't see her as a reflection of my Christianity.

Let's break out of the loop. The overall lesson from this is Atheists and Christian Fundamentalist are one in the same always attacking each other because they are the opposite side of the same coin. I think the general formula for creating an Atheist is to start off with a Fundamentalist upbringing, then go on to disillusionment, then go onto the reality the disillusionment asserts, "If my Fundamentalism isn't true, nothing is true." So, in the end Atheists are just fighting their personal habits of beings Fundies...for the rest of their life.

 

[Skwim]

I can't relate to this on any level 1) I don't know who Betty Bowers is 2) I suppose if I did I wouldn't see her as a reflection of my Christianity.

Let me help you out. Just click on the Betty Bowers logo below.

Let's break out of the loop. The overall lesson from this is Atheists and Christian Fundamentalist are one in the same always attacking each other because they are the opposite side of the same coin.

Really???? What coin is this?

I think the general formula for creating an Atheist is to start off with a Fundamentalist upbringing, then go on to disillusionment, then go onto the reality the disillusionment asserts, "If my Fundamentalism isn't true, nothing is true."

Wow! that's quite an imagination you have.

So, in the end Atheists are just fighting their personal habits of beings Fundies...for the rest of their life.

Hey all you atheists out there, is that it? You're just fighting your personal habits [?] of being a fundie?

.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It does not matter what I or any other Christian says, it matters what God revealed.

Yes, but the thousands of different Christian denominations alone are testament to the fact not everyone gets the same interpretation from the same book.