Christian's Birthdays and Other Holidays

[dawny0826]

Hi Christine ES. How deep would you like to go?

Justification is so easy when the heart wants to continue something it enjoys...even when someone tries to prove to us that it's wrong, we will still try to convince ourselves that we can continue to do it.

Ask anyone who is married but has had a romantic liaison at work or someone who is grossly obese who still wants to eat all the wrong foods....we will convince ourselves that we can continue on with these activities even when it is clearly not in our own best interests, or in the best interests of others, to keep doing it. (Jer 17:9, 10)

If the Bible tells us, as Christians, that any connection to pagan worship is unacceptable to God, then breaking that connection, even at the expense of giving up something we love, is a necessary sacrifice. According to Paul, unless we separate ourselves from these spiritually "unclean" practices, (sharing true worship with pagan practices) we cannot be 'taken in by God as his sons and daughters'. (2 Cor 6:14-18) No matter how innocent these things appear or how much we enjoy them, we have to acknowledge their origins and how God feels about them. If this is not our primary concern, then we are already lost. :sad:

As Pegg has brought out, there is no indication that worshippers of Jehovah have ever celebrated these things, either in ancient Israel or first century Christianity.

These festivals were adopted from pagan cultures that were originally held in honor of false gods. If God did not approve of these practices among his ancient people, and the Bible tells us that God does not change, then how can he accept them today?

The choice is ours. God will never force us to do his will.

Clearly God didn't oppose gift giving entirely He gave humanity the ultimate gift through Christ.

The bible also tells us not to judge others, by the way. That gets lost sometimes...

 

[JayJayDee]

Clearly God didn't oppose gift giving entirely He gave humanity the ultimate gift through Christ.

The bible also tells us not to judge others, by the way. That gets lost sometimes...

dawny0826, if you have read my other posts, you will see that this is the misunderstanding that most people have about our position. It isn't about giving the gifts. As you have so rightly stated, God gave us many gifts, including the priceless gift of his son.

James 1:17..."Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, coming down from the Father of the celestial lights, who does not vary or change like the shifting shadows."

God is a generous giver. It's the reason why we give that counts. As the scripture above says...God does not change.

A date on a calendar is not a reason to be forced to give presents to people who don't appreciate them, who oftentimes don't even want them, and who could care less about how much care we took in selecting the gift in the first place.

Do you know how many unwanted gifts are flogged off on eBay shortly after Christmas? What are we actually promoting?

A quick glance at how children respond on Christmas morning if the jolly old man in the red suit didn't give them what they wanted. Or perhaps children in poor or socially disadvantaged circumstances may wonder why he brought gifts to the rich kids but forgot about them? :sad4:

Christmas for many people is a meaningless commercial ritual that has become an expensive burden to them. It promotes greed and the true spirit of giving is lost for the most part.
When I tell people I don't celebrate Christmas, whilst they are running around like chickens with their heads cut off, they look at me with a curious envy. It has become one of the most stressful times of the year for so many reasons. Yet people feel they have no choice. The fact is, they do.

The happy families people once enjoyed are all but gone. People bicker over where their fractured families are going to eat the feast and the rates of domestic violence escalates markedly over the Christmas season according to police reports; incidents are often fuelled by alcohol, which often flows freely at this time.

For those who have no one who cares about them, it just reminds them of their loneliness and often rubs salt into their wounded souls.

Have you noticed what the commercial world is doing with these celebrations? We no sooner have one event over and the shelves in the stores are all stocked ready for the next 'fleecing'. Haven't we been conned into parting with copious amounts of money in order to carry out these ridiculous rituals? People have become slaves to their traditions. Even when common sense dictates that it has gone too far....the rot continues. How gullible are human beings?

"A fool and his money are soon parted"....how many 'fools' are just doing these things because the world dictates that it must be done?

How many people die on the roads over the holidays...that alone should make us want to do something about it.

Who do we worship? God or the world? None of these things are based on anything God requires of his worshippers. There is no Biblical command to do any of it. :no:

Can you not see the folly of it? Step back and really see what its all about.

 

[dawny0826]

dawny0826, if you have read my other posts, you will see that this is the misunderstanding that most people have about our position. It isn't about giving the gifts. As you have so rightly stated, God gave us many gifts, including the priceless gift of his son.

James 1:17..."Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, coming down from the Father of the celestial lights, who does not vary or change like the shifting shadows."

God is a generous giver. It's the reason why we give that counts. As the scripture above says...God does not change.

A date on a calendar is not a reason to be forced to give presents to people who don't appreciate them, who oftentimes don't even want them, and who could care less about how much care we took in selecting the gift in the first place.

Do you know how many unwanted gifts are flogged off on eBay shortly after Christmas? What are we actually promoting?

A quick glance at how children respond on Christmas morning if the jolly old man in the red suit didn't give them what they wanted. Or perhaps children in poor or socially disadvantaged circumstances may wonder why he brought gifts to the rich kids but forgot about them? :sad4:

Christmas for many people is a meaningless commercial ritual that has become an expensive burden to them. It promotes greed and the true spirit of giving is lost for the most part.
When I tell people I don't celebrate Christmas, whilst they are running around like chickens with their heads cut off, they look at me with a curious envy. It has become one of the most stressful times of the year for so many reasons. Yet people feel they have no choice. The fact is, they do.

The happy families people once enjoyed are all but gone. People bicker over where their fractured families are going to eat the feast and the rates of domestic violence escalates markedly over the Christmas season according to police reports; incidents are often fuelled by alcohol, which often flows freely at this time.

For those who have no one who cares about them, it just reminds them of their loneliness and often rubs salt into their wounded souls.

Have you noticed what the commercial world is doing with these celebrations? We no sooner have one event over and the shelves in the stores are all stocked ready for the next 'fleecing'. Haven't we been conned into parting with copious amounts of money in order to carry out these ridiculous rituals? People have become slaves to their traditions. Even when common sense dictates that it has gone too far....the rot continues. How gullible are human beings?

"A fool and his money are soon parted"....how many 'fools' are just doing these things because the world dictates that it must be done?

How many people die on the roads over the holidays...that alone should make us want to do something about it.

Who do we worship? God or the world? None of these things are based on anything God requires of his worshippers. There is no Biblical command to do any of it. :no:

Can you not see the folly of it? Step back and really see what its all about.

I could care less about holidays and birthdays. I get what you're saying about the folly of commercial and holiday trappings. Got it.

But, there's a significant difference between falliing into these traps and giving from the heart. There's a difference between materialism and joyful giving. There's a difference between selfishness and rejoicefulness.

I don't have to feel remorse for giving to anyone out of love and kindness at anytime of the year, holidays or otherwise, because Christ instructed me to do so. He instructed me to love my neighbor as I love myself. If feel moved by the Holy Spirit to give to anyone at anytime, I will do so.

If I choose to celebrate God's gifts to mankind on Christmas, I'll do so. That's between He and I.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Jeremy, aside from the points made by kjw47, another issue is that Christians commit themselves to being his followers and living in harmony with his teachings and way of life.

Aside from some the points made by kjw47, I agree.

Are birthdays, easter, christmas or any other types of holidays things that Jesus actively participated in or promoted?

He attended the ones that were relevant to his time.

birthdays were a common practice back then, the bible even mentions two birthday celebrations.

Good! I'm glad you said that.

But never do we read of any accounts of Israelites or Jesus or his disciples celebrating such events.

I guess, other than birthdays, right? Christmas, Easter were celebrations that happen in contemporary Christian ways.

He went to weddings and funerals and the festivals of his people the Jews...but these other celebrations were not a part of his custom.

Yes, he did attend funerals and festivals of his people, but the other customs are just other celebrations of his life and those who chose to follow him.

Even if we ignore the pagan origins of such celebrations, the fact is that Jesus did not instruct his disciples to follow such customs...so we dont.

Yes, but children's folklore and pagan practices are far remote. If you feel they are not, I would suggest avoiding consciously reproachable situations.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

All through your answers--- I--its not what I thinks--its what God thinks--God saw the pagan additives--they are real to him.

Especially the ones that involved human/child sacrifices.

Gift giving is not a bad thing--partaking of the table of demons being disguised as good things is bad.

I know you understand that gift-giving isn't bad.

The only name one can find unscrambling santa =he steals 98% of the Christmas celebration away from Jesus. If God expects ones whole heart,soul, mind and strength--then so does Jesus--2% does not cut it--totally unacceptable. satan

http://steelturman.typepad.com/phot...03/30/church_lady_david_spade_snl_joe_dir.png

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Here is a prime example of celebrations that look good---Valentines day--a holiday of showing love and sharing--the world added a real life false god named cupid, worshipped by human beings for centuries( table of demons)

FYI
Saint Valentine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Where is your demon Cupid.

Oh, here he is.
Devils And Demons Demon Cupid Tattoo - Free Download Tattoo #12651 Devils And Demons Demon Cupid Tattoo With Resolution 740x781 Pixel | WakTattoos.com

Do you see why Jesus taught to be no part of this world( pagan practices in celebrations, corrupt govts= no voting, running for office, no part in wars of hatred,etc) Jesus taught--satan is the ruler of this world-- and he is.

I agree that government is truly Satanic.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

“Originally the idea [of birthday greetings and wishes for happiness] was rooted in magic. The working of spells for good and evil is the chief usage of witchcraft. One is especially susceptible to such spells on his birthday, as one’s personal spirits are about at that time. Dreams dreamed on the birthday eve should be remembered, for they are predictions of the future brought by the guardian spirits which hover over one’s bed on the birthday eve. Birthday greetings have power for good or ill because one is closer to the spirit world on this day. Good wishes bring good fortune, but the reverse is also true, so one should avoid enemies on one’s birthday and be surrounded only by well-wishers. ‘Happy birthday’ and ‘Many happy returns of the day’ are the traditional greetings” (The Lore of Birthdays, Linton, p. 20)...

The giving of birthday gifts is a custom associated with the offering of sacrifices to pagan gods on their birthdays. Certainly the custom was linked with the same superstitions that formed the background for birthday greetings. “The exchange of presents… is associated with the importance of ingratiating good and evil fairies… on their or our birthdays” (ibid.).​

One can justify the celebratory customs are not intended for evil purposes today, instead are used for the edification of Godly values so God will undoubtedly approve, right? If God was not pleased with Israel's syncretization and substitution of pagan customs, I think it is safe to assume He would not be very happy about it today.

James, thanks. I respect where you are coming from. I just feel at God understands the difference between law and intent.

1 Corinthians 8:1-8

8 Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that “We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. 2 Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. 3 But whoever loves God is known by God.[a]4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.” 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

7 But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

Luke 6:3-4 (NIV)

6 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. 2 Some of the Pharisees asked, “Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”3 Jesus answered them, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.”

John 7:21-24 (NIV)

21 Jesus said to them, “I did one miracle, and you are all amazed. 22 Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision (though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a boy on the Sabbath. 23 Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath? 24 Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.”

Intent seems to be the theme.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

And how will you judge correctly when satan transforms into an angel of light? 99% have failed for over 6000 years--how will you do it?
Solomon fell to worshipping false gods in the end--he was very wise. Are you wiser than Solomon?

Gee kjw47, I'm glad your the 1%.

 

[roger1440]

I’ll play the devil's advocate. Frank Sinatra’s song Witchcraft obviously promotes Pagan beliefs. Its irrelevant most people listen to it only because it’s a catchy tune and ole blue eyes has captivating melodious voice.


[youtube]ipMeVKd6eEw[/youtube]
Frank Sinatra - "Witchcraft" - YouTube

 

[JayJayDee]

I could care less about holidays and birthdays. I get what you're saying about the folly of commercial and holiday trappings. Got it.

But, there's a significant difference between falliing into these traps and giving from the heart. There's a difference between materialism and joyful giving. There's a difference between selfishness and rejoicefulness.

I don't have to feel remorse for giving to anyone out of love and kindness at anytime of the year, holidays or otherwise, because Christ instructed me to do so. He instructed me to love my neighbor as I love myself. If feel moved by the Holy Spirit to give to anyone at anytime, I will do so.

I think that is exactly what my post was about dawny 0862. It's OK to give at any time, but for a lot of people, there has to be a reason....it's programmed into them. Certain dates or events = gifts. Some occasions are quite fine, like weddings, engagements or the birth of a new baby, but apart from those things, it has to be something that everyone else does in order to be 'acceptable'. It has suited the commercial system very well to promote these occasions and turn them into major shopping events.

I remember when my children were in 5th or 6th grade and they would take some gift that I had bought them to school to show their friends and the first thing the other children would say was "what did you get that for"? My children were rather confused because our family never gave gifts for any particular reason. The children's response was part of their 'programming'. I am sure that their parents are not even aware of it.

We give like God gives...out of love and out of a need to bring happiness and joy to someone. The date on a calendar should not dictate when that happens. I give gifts to my kids and grandkids all the time. It makes me happy, it makes them happy and no offense is caused to God because we followed some pagan tradition that everyone else blindly follows.

I would love a dollar for every time I have heard someone (usually a woman) say...you can get me 'this' or 'that' for my birthday or for Christmas, or for Mother's Day.

If I choose to celebrate God's gifts to mankind on Christmas, I'll do so. That's between He and I.

Of course that is entirely up to you. I cannot impose my conscience or my beliefs onto anyone. But an untrained or misled conscience is no good to anyone who wants to please God. If we don't have his view, then our own flawed human perceptions and reasoning cannot be counted on to lead us in the right direction.

Pointing out the elephant in the room is sometimes unwelcome when the elephant has been living there ignored a long time.

 

[ChristineES]

Hi Christine ES. How deep would you like to go?

Justification is so easy when the heart wants to continue something it enjoys...even when someone tries to prove to us that it's wrong, we will still try to convince ourselves that we can continue to do it.

Ask anyone who is married but has had a romantic liaison at work or someone who is grossly obese who still wants to eat all the wrong foods....we will convince ourselves that we can continue on with these activities even when it is clearly not in our own best interests, or in the best interests of others, to keep doing it. (Jer 17:9, 10)

If the Bible tells us, as Christians, that any connection to pagan worship is unacceptable to God, then breaking that connection, even at the expense of giving up something we love, is a necessary sacrifice. According to Paul, unless we separate ourselves from these spiritually "unclean" practices, (sharing true worship with pagan practices) we cannot be 'taken in by God as his sons and daughters'. (2 Cor 6:14-18) No matter how innocent these things appear or how much we enjoy them, we have to acknowledge their origins and how God feels about them. If this is not our primary concern, then we are already lost. :sad:

As Pegg has brought out, there is no indication that worshippers of Jehovah have ever celebrated these things, either in ancient Israel or first century Christianity.

These festivals were adopted from pagan cultures that were originally held in honor of false gods. If God did not approve of these practices among his ancient people, and the Bible tells us that God does not change, then how can he accept them today?

The choice is ours. God will never force us to do his will.

But I don't feel as though I am following any pagan custom if I celebrate people's birthdays. I am not doing it because I am following some ritual. I just don't see anything wrong with it. Just because some pagans in the past had a ritual of some kind about births, that doesn't have anything to do with the celebrating of birthdays nowadays. Try thinking of it this way: If, sometime in the past, a non-Jewish and non-Christian religion used to music to worship, does that mean we have to do away with singing in various Christian Churches? (I know of at least one Christian denomination that doesn't use music in their services for that reason). Of course not, we sing in Church. I have been to Kingdom Hall in the past, so I know they sing during the services, as well.

 

[InChrist]

But I don't feel as though I am following any pagan custom if I celebrate people's birthdays. I am not doing it because I am following some ritual. I just don't see anything wrong with it. Just because some pagans in the past had a ritual of some kind about births, that doesn't have anything to do with the celebrating of birthdays nowadays. Try thinking of it this way: If, sometime in the past, a non-Jewish and non-Christian religion used to music to worship, does that mean we have to do away with singing in various Christian Churches? (I know of at least one Christian denomination that doesn't use music in their services for that reason). Of course not, we sing in Church. I have been to Kingdom Hall in the past, so I know they sing during the services, as well.

I think you have brought up an important point. Many things have pagan roots or associations from the past but that does not necessarily make the item or activity pagan or evil in and of itself. For example, wedding rings originally had pagan roots yet many Christians and others now wear weddings rings as a token of love and commitment with no connection to paganism. I know that JW's also wear wedding rings. All the names of the days of the week have associations to false gods, but that is irrelevant today and even those in the Watchtower and other such groups use those names. U.S. paper money has occult symbols printed on it, yet those who oppose birthdays and Christmas still use this money regularly. If one is opposed to something because of pagan connections then I think being consistent would be necessary if one's stance is to have any meaning and validity.

 

[james2ko]

James, thanks. I respect where you are coming from.I just feel at God understands the difference between law and intent. Intent seems to be the theme.

God understands, but us humans sometimes get the two confused. Aaron's and the Israelites intentions to break God's law were very good:

Exo 32:4-6 And he received the gold from their hand, and he fashioned it with an engraving tool, and made a molded calf. Then they said, "This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!" 5 So when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, "Tomorrow is a feast to the LORD." 6 Then they rose early on the next day, offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.​

He and the Israelites probably reasoned, "As long as we direct, focus, and dedicate our worship of this beautiful and expensive image toward God, I'm sure He will not mind, I mean after all, God understands the difference between law and intent, right?"

 

[james2ko]

I think you have brought up an important point. Many things have pagan roots or associations from the past but that does not necessarily make the item or activity pagan or evil in and of itself. For example, wedding rings originally had pagan roots yet many Christians and others now wear weddings rings as a token of love and commitment with no connection to paganism. I know that JW's also wear wedding rings. All the names of the days of the week have associations to false gods, but that is irrelevant today and even those in the Watchtower and other such groups use those names. U.S. paper money has occult symbols printed on it, yet those who oppose birthdays and Christmas still use this money regularly. If one is opposed to something because of pagan connections then I think being consistent would be necessary if one's stance is to have any meaning and validity.

I agree. Just because the pagans practiced a custom doesn't make it inherently evil. God instituted baptism as a custom of worship for His people even though it was also practiced by the pagans. But the question becomes where does God draw the line? I believe the examples of scripture indicate the line is drawn when these customs are used in His name and honor without His authorization, which Christians tend to do with birthdays and other holidays.

There is a reason scripture does not mention anyone's precise day of birth--not even the Messiah's-- and portrays birthdays in a negative light. There's a reason why Solomon said the day of one's death is better than their birth (Ecc 7:1).There's a reason why the early church stated only sinners celebrate one's day of birth. There is a reason why the highest and most important holiday of the year in the satanic religion is not Halloween, but the day of one's birth (satanic bible, pg 53 pdf version). Given this evidence and the example of the Israelites, If you can, with a good conscience, think God will not be offended by celebrating one's day of birth, then by all means. But as for me and my family, we will much rather err on the side of caution.

 

[kjw47]

Gee kjw47, I'm glad your the 1%.

God gave everyone the key--- This is my son the beloved whom I have approved, LISTEN TO HIM.---Not pick and choose but all of it--learned and applied in ones everyday life.

 

[JayJayDee]

But I don't feel as though I am following any pagan custom if I celebrate people's birthdays. I am not doing it because I am following some ritual. I just don't see anything wrong with it.

That is hardly surprising. These things have been around so long, that most people never even ask where they came from and how God feels about them....they are too busy concentrating how 'they' feel about them. (Isa 55:8, 9)

Giving is natural....but when it is dictated by a date, you have to wonder why? God is certainly not restricted by a date, nor is he motivated to hold something good back from his human creation because it can only come on a certain date. (Matt 5:45)

Just because some pagans in the past had a ritual of some kind about births, that doesn't have anything to do with the celebrating of birthdays nowadays.

Since God's worshippers never celebrated their birthdays but it was common among pagans, (it was against God's law to imitate them. Deut 18:9-12) there can be no doubt that the practice did not infiltrate Judaism or Christianity until they had both apostatised. Jesus rejected the Jewish nation for this very reason. He said that the traditions of men had invalidated the word of God. (Matt 15:3, 6-9)
It was foretold by Jesus that "weeds" (seeds of false Christianity) would be sown by the devil in the world.

The celebration of birthdays was associated with spiritism and its customs with false worship....it still is. People just carry on the traditions without a single thought as to what they are doing or where it comes from.

The devil gets his kicks by getting sincere people to offend their God by making disobedience to God, appealing and even beneficial.....isn't that how he seduced Eve? "Is it really so?" is how he planted the seed of doubt.....the rest went to plan. He knows what works because he's had thousands of years to perfect his craft. (2 Cor 2:11)

Try thinking of it this way: If, sometime in the past, a non-Jewish and non-Christian religion used to music to worship, does that mean we have to do away with singing in various Christian Churches?

This is the flaw in the argument. It is not the giving of gifts, but the whole concept of birthday celebrations and the customs that are carried on to this day.

Why for example are there candles on a birthday cake? Why is there even a birthday cake? Why is blowing out the candles done by making a wish? Why the song, always the same one, sung to young and old, conveying the wish for a "happy birthday" regardless of whether the person has anything in their life that would make them happy?

No birth dates are recorded in scripture....not even Jesus' date of birth. That means that the date chosen to celebrate his birthday was chosen for a specific reason....it was the very date on which the sun worshipping Romans celebrated the birthday of their sun god. All the traditions....the merry making, feasting and exchanging of gifts featured in the original celebration just as they do today. Swapping the name of the "god" doesn't 'Christianize' the celebration, it paganizes Christianity.

(I know of at least one Christian denomination that doesn't use music in their services for that reason). Of course not, we sing in Church. I have been to Kingdom Hall in the past, so I know they sing during the services, as well.

Singing has always featured in God's worship. Just because the pagans also do it doesn't mean we can't. The angels were singing in heaven long before man came into existence.

The point is, it is not the singing but the origin of the songs that we have to be concerned about. Are they extolling truths about Jehovah and his son or are they promoting the paganise form of Christianity planted by God's enemy in the hope of deceiving God fearing people into performing rituals mindlessly, that are designed to lead them to unwittingly disobey their God?

Its a fine line, but Jehovah is a God who does not tolerate any deviation from his clearly stated laws. The devil is good at blurring the line between what is acceptable and what is not. Faulty perception is no excuse.

Justification is dangerous. If we cannot be faithful in the small things, there is no point in being faithful only in the big things. (Luke 16:10)

 

[Katzpur]

But I don't feel as though I am following any pagan custom if I celebrate people's birthdays. I am not doing it because I am following some ritual. I just don't see anything wrong with it. Just because some pagans in the past had a ritual of some kind about births, that doesn't have anything to do with the celebrating of birthdays nowadays. Try thinking of it this way: If, sometime in the past, a non-Jewish and non-Christian religion used to music to worship, does that mean we have to do away with singing in various Christian Churches? (I know of at least one Christian denomination that doesn't use music in their services for that reason). Of course not, we sing in Church. I have been to Kingdom Hall in the past, so I know they sing during the services, as well.

If you can't trust your own conscience, Christine, what's it good for? The self-righteous attitude of certain people on this forum is enough to make me sick.

 

[InChrist]

I believe it is extremely inappropriate to use an example of the Israelites making a golden calf to worship in an attempt to tie it to Christians who celebrate birthdays. For one thing, the Israelites were directly worshiping an idol made by their hands. Secondly, God was dealing with the nation of Israel differently than He does with those of the church age. The apostle Paul directly addressed issues such as this (Romans 14) instructing believers that even eating meat sacrificed to idols was not wrong because everything in the earth belongs to the Lord and an idol is nothing. If one’s conscience was clear and their motivation was faith then it was not sin to eat whatever they were served or esteem any day.The only time to avoid eating meat which was sacrificed to an idol was if the one serving it said it was an offering for an idol...then it was appropriate to refrain because it would be seen as agreeing or participating in idol worship.


As others have pointed out it is one's intent or motive that makes the difference. If a person is celebrating an event with gratefulness to God or to show love to another then it is not wrong, but if one is purposely doing something as part of a pagan ritual or to worship a false god then it becomes sin. I don't know any Christians who when they give gifts to people on their birthdays or celebrate the birth of Jesus are in anyway whatsoever participating in or even thinking about long ago pagan rituals or worshiping idols. To be honest, I don't even know any non-Christians who give birthday gifts or celebrate Christmas who, although they may not acknowledge God, are purposely trying to practice pagan rituals or worship idols.

 

[JayJayDee]

If you can't trust your own conscience, Christine, what's it good for? The self-righteous attitude of certain people on this forum is enough to make me sick.

"Certain people"...LOL. I wonder who you could possibly mean Katzpur? Looks like the people who disagree with you are being judged as "self righteous" and nauseating. O well.....

No one said you can't do whatever you wish....just know that we will all be held accountable for our decisions. When they are practiced in ignorance...that is one thing, but knowledge dispels ignorance and the act becomes one practiced in full awareness, and in disobedience....big difference. Shooting the messenger doesn't make the message go away.

The Jews were told not to adopt these practices because God was driving the inhabitants of Canaan out of the land on account of these very things. What makes you believe that he approves of something he has already expressed abhorrence for? (Deut 18:9-12) What does the word "detestable" mean in this scripture?

Is candy coated poison any less life threatening?

Does telling the truth make one "self righteous" or just concerned that some are being conned by the god who rules this world? No one has anything to fear from even an uncomfortable truth. (John 4:24)

If choices must be made, isn't it better to have all the facts? Or is ignorance bliss? :ignore:

"However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron." (1 Tim 4:1, 2)

What use is a conscience if it is seared with falsehood? If it has become insensitive because lies were passed off as truth, then it is hardly a reliable guide.

If the truth makes people uncomfortable then perhaps it's time to humbly weigh up the evidence instead of proudly trying to justify something that is clearly unacceptable to God? It makes no difference to me what people do....but I am under obligation to tell the truth. (Ezek 3:17-21)

 

[Katzpur]

"Certain people"...LOL. I wonder who you could possibly mean Katzpur?

Yeah, well I'm sure nobody had to think very hard about it. There are so few contenders.

If the truth makes people uncomfortable then perhaps it's time to humbly weigh up the evidence instead of proudly trying to justify something that is clearly unacceptable to God? It makes no difference to me what people do....but I am under obligation to tell the truth. (Ezek 3:17-21)

Whatever. As if you know any better than the next person what's acceptable to God and what's not. Personally, I am absolutely convinced that being prideful and judgmental is far more offensive to God than throwing a birthday party for a four-year-old. What a stick in the mud your God must be.

Seriously, this thread is such a joke. With all of the genuine evil there is in the world today, it's unfathomable to me how anyone can get so flippin' worked up over the celebration of birthdays. I guess it just takes all kinds.