Christians: How could Earth only be 6000 years old?

[sniper762]

so moses saying that the sun and the moon were placed in the firmament (atmosphere in hebrew bible) between the waters of above and the waters below sounds like hes knowledgeable of astrology?

give me a break!

 

[gzusfrk]

It doesnt make sense! We have found bows and arrows that are a million years old! OUR WRITTEN LANGUAGE WAS MADE 10,000 YEARS AGO. (Speaking of language, in the Bible it says human built a tower to reach God but he broke it and made the languages, if this is true, wouldn't that mean heaven was in the clouds; humans of that time couldn't breath in outer space.) Just want to hear your thoughts!

I dont think the earth is 6000 years old, I believe it to be much older. And the tower thing, people once thought the world was flat.

 

[james2ko]

you are creating the context of appointing the already created sun and moon and stars the same made in vs 16 is also used in vs 7. and, this word, asah עשה, also means...

to do, fashion, accomplish, make
(Qal)
to do, work, make, produce 1a
to do 1a
to work 1a
to deal (with) 1a
to act, act with effect, effect
to make 1a
to make 1a
to produce 1a
to prepare 1a
to make (an offering) 1a
to attend to, put in order 1a
to observe, celebrate 1a
to acquire (property) 1a
to appoint, ordain, institute 1a
to bring about 1a
to use 1a
to spend, pass

That's correct. The context calls for a definition other than creation from nothing. Thanks for confirming it

it would seem to indicate, when god says, ''let there be" god is creating it into existence...as is the case in vs 1 and in vs 14..."let there be lights..." notice, one guides the day and one guides the night....the lesser light...

According to your interpretation, God made the sun twice. In verse 3-4 and 14 Furthermore, verse 1 uses a different Hebrew word "bara" [create] than verse 14 "hayah". In addition, if God first created the sun on day four, it would only be a little under 6,000 years old which defies the scientific evidence!!

]but your premise is not consistent with vs 16[/b] which describes what god spoke into existence on the 4th day...god spoke into existence a greater light for the day and a lesser light for the night. furthermore, whoever wrote this account surely didn't know that the light from the moon is actually a reflection from the sun...right? therefore we now know today...there is only 1 source of light that guides both day and night... vs 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars...stars being other suns....

My premise of a pre-existing sun makes a lot more sense than God creating the sun twice-- 6,000 years ago.

]clearly he created light without the sun[/b] because on the 4th day in vs 14 he spoke into existence “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night"

Then we can conclude He also created darkness without night? Your logic just doesn't fly..

][/b]just as in vs 3...let there be light...i still do not see the purpose of night for the 1st 3 days... if god clearly created the sun the moon and stars on the 4th day...so many holes to fill...so many goal posts to move...critical thinking need not apply.

I agree. Your presentation needs some work

 

[waitasec]

That's correct. The context calls for a definition other than creation from nothing. Thanks for confirming it

and the definition of make means what exactly?

According to your interpretation, God made the sun twice. In verse 3-4 and 14

according to the bible account god said let there be light....no sun, vs 3.
then on the 4th day god created the sun...
i didn't make this up, it's right there in front of you...2 different accounts of light one without the sun and one with the the sun, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night,"...
which is clearly missing on vs 3.

Furthermore, verse 1 uses a different Hebrew word "bara" [create] than verse 14 "hayah". In addition, if God first created the sun on day four, it would only be a little under 6,000 years old which defies the scientific evidence!!

again you are misleading the context of the hebrew word..."god created the heavens and the earth..." he didn't create the sun...he created the heavens....he said let there be light....and thten he said it again...let there be lights...the sun, the moon and the stars...on the 4th day.

it's not that difficult to see we have a problem here...

My premise of a pre-existing sun makes a lot more sense than God creating the sun twice-- 6,000 years ago.

you can try all you want to make sense out of a bronze age tale. some can just accept it for what it is, a bronze age explanation, others tend to move goal posts to make sense of it, why?

Then we can conclude He also created darkness without night?

yes like light without the sun...
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Your logic just doesn't fly..

clearly i'm not the one defending this bronze age account...you are.

so there here we go again, why was there day AND night for the 1st 3 days without the sun for the earth to rotate around?

 

[Jacksnyte]

yes im aware of what scholars say

im also aware of what the bible says



and the bible doesnt say the earth and sun were not in existence.

um....:

What is the biblical Creation story?




8Share

Question: "What is the biblical Creation story?"​

Answer: The basic creation story is found in Genesis 1 and 2, with the account of the Garden of Eden in chapter 3. Genesis 1 begins before the existence of anything except God Himself. Since this is the case, there is no such thing as a “pre-historic” time. God’s revelation of Himself and His will for mankind is the beginning. In this beginning, God created everything in the universe in six literal 24-hour days. This includes all the heavenly bodies (including every star and planet), as well as everything on the earth. While the triune nature of God is not explicit in the Genesis account, God does reveal an “us” within the Godhead (Genesis 1:26). The Spirit is active in creation (Genesis 1:2) as is Christ (John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:15-17).​

In the six days of Creation, God formed the universe and the earth (day 1), the sky and the atmosphere (day 2), dry land and all plant life (day 3), the stars and heavenly bodies including the sun and moon (day 4), birds and water creatures (day 5), and all the animals and man (day 6). Mankind is special above all other creatures because he bears the image of God and has the responsibility to steward and subdue the earth. All of creation was completed in six days in all its vast array and wondrous beauty. The six literal 24-hour days have no time spans separating the days. God announced that His creation was very good. Genesis 2 sees the completion of God’s work and gives a detailed account of the creation of man.​

 

[james2ko]

it's not that difficult to see we have a problem here... .

1. Houston, we most certainly do have a problem, . You defy science once again. If there was no pre-existing sun in verse 1, as you claim, how could the spirit be hovering over the surface of the "waters" as stated in verse two? Shouldn't it be hovering over the surface of the "ice"? And how do you explain verses 7-10, Still no sun, yet the earth is still filled with "water"?

again you are misleading the context of the hebrew word..."god created the heavens and the earth..." he didn't create the sun...he created the heavens he said let there be light....and then he said it again...let there be light..the sun, the moon and the stars...on the 4th day.

2. So what existed in the "heavens" between day one and day three?

and the definition of make means what exactly?

3. Depends on the context. God can "make" something out of nothing, as He did in verse 1, or he can "make" something, already in existence, perform an action. In verse 7, He "made" a space or separation between the waters in the heavens from those of the earth. He didn't create it in fiat, He performed an action with pre-existing matter. Since the sun had to already be in orbit in order for water on the earth to exist (vs 2, 7-10), we can logically conclude the word "made", in verse 16, is used as an assignment or appointment--not a brand new creation. This appointment is clearly indicated in the context of verse 14. Make sense?

you can try all you want to make sense out of a bronze age tale. some can just accept it for what it is, a bronze age explanation, others tend to move goal posts to make sense of it, why?

4. Biblical chronology clearly outlines around 6,000 years have elapsed from the creation of Adam to today. "I didn't make this up, it's right there in front of you."

clearly i'm not the one defending this bronze age account...you are.so there here we go again, why was there day AND night for the 1st 3 days without the sun for the earth to rotate around?

5. For the same reason the earth was filled with water and not ice the first 3 days----the sun was already in orbit heating it.

according to the bible account god said let there be light....no sun, vs 3. then on the 4th day god created the sun..[b].i didn't make this up, it's right there in front of you[/b]...2 different accounts of light one without the sun and one with the the sun, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night,"...which is clearly missing on vs 3.

6. I know it's there but we need to use something you love to preach but fail to practice---critical thinking. Amiga

 

[angellous_evangellous]

You defy science once again.

This rhetorical ploy isn't fooling anyone.

 

[waitasec]

1. Houston, we most certainly do have a problem, . You defy science once again. If there was no pre-existing sun in verse 1, as you claim, how could the spirit be hovering over the surface of the "waters" as stated in verse two? Shouldn't it be hovering over the surface of the "ice"? And how do you explain verses 7-10, Still no sun, yet the earth is still filled with "water"?

you are forgetting i didn't write this account...bronze age men did...

it also says:
“Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.”
"So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.”
we know the ocean lakes and rivers are the main source for rain...
why would god need to separate it if he knew how the process of condensation worked...even if the sun were there...

2. So what existed in the "heavens" between day one and day three?

obviously nothing
because on day four he created the sun, the moon and the stars
read it again...
14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

lets just say god did create the sun stars and the moon one day 1...what happened on day four then...?
i think the big give away is the marking of time by the sun...it is not mentioned when he first created light...
in vs 17 god set the lights that he spoke into existence...as in let there be light in vs 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
no mention of the vault.. until day four because it wasn't created yet...just light which was good...so my question still remains...why was their evening and morning on the 2nd and 3rd day without the sun?

3. Depends on the context. God can "make" something out of nothing, as He did in verse 1, or he can "make" something, already in existence, perform an action.

with this logic, why can't god create light without the sun, son?
i rest my case....

 

[gnostic]

If there was no pre-existing sun in verse 1, as you claim, how could the spirit be hovering over the surface of the "waters" as stated in verse two?

Are you saying that God can't see in the dark?

I don't know why religious people think so, but they assume that God is THE light. And if he is the light, then he doesn't need the sun to see his reflection on the water, would he?

I am just brainstorming here, so yes it is speculation.

2. So what existed in the "heavens" between day one and day three?

It would seem that other source of light, other than the sun. But we know that the Earth is spinning in an (wobbly) axis, so we get our day and night because of our position on the earth surface.

Don't understand why the Genesis can have day and night without the sun.

But your own assumption is that the sun exist prior to day 4, but the sky is blanket with gases and smoke, which to me is a baseless assumption (because the Genesis mention no such thing, so I don't know where you getting this from).

Even if you assume that there are gaps of thousands or millions or billion of years instead of literal days (as given in Genesis), your ideas are flawed, because can plants or trees be grown (3rd day) with millions of years without direct sunlight (4th day)?

The only answer to the Genesis 1 is that it is only an allegory or a myth. Trying to match religious concept with science is always bound to fail. And I am afraid you're failing badly.

 

[waitasec]

Are you saying that God can't see in the dark?

:biglaugh:

 

[Looncall]

Are you folk for real? Arguing about the details of ancient myths is like squabbling about the arrangement of the furniture in Sherlock Holmes's rooms.

Genesis is obviously an ancient myth, a mere campfire tale, just one among thousands of such, not a science text. It may possibly have some merit as literature, but not as history.

 

[rusra02]

It doesnt make sense! We have found bows and arrows that are a million years old! OUR WRITTEN LANGUAGE WAS MADE 10,000 YEARS AGO. (Speaking of language, in the Bible it says human built a tower to reach God but he broke it and made the languages, if this is true, wouldn't that mean heaven was in the clouds; humans of that time couldn't breath in outer space.) Just want to hear your thoughts!

No, the Bible doesn't say the earth is just 6,000 years old. Nor does it says humans built a tower to reach God. Genesis 11:4 states "Let us build ourselves a city and also a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a celebrated name for ourselves." The Genesis account speaks of the expanse of atmosphere as the heavens. So these builders apparently were constructing an edifice for false worship, of which many such exist today. The estimation of ages for artifacts is simply guesswork, and dating methods are notoriously unreliable, but dates are apparently accepted without question, regardless of how far-fetched they are.

​

 

[james2ko]

you are forgetting i didn't write this account...bronze age men did...it also says:“Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.”"So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” we know the ocean lakes and rivers are the main source for rain...why would god need to separate it if he knew how the process of condensation worked...even if the sun were there...

And you are forgetting fifth grade science tells us water, in its liquid form, along with its processes would not even exist without the sun...Critical thinking, remember.

obviously nothing because on day four he created the sun, the moon and the stars read it again...14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

Nothing? My bible says He created the heavens and earth--and as much as you want to deny it in order to uphold your belief, you and I both know water cycles cannot exist without the heat from the sun.

lets just say god did create the sun stars and the moon one day 1...what happened on day four then...?

The Hebrew term "let there be" is "hayah" which can also mean "become" or "appear". On day four, God cleared enough of the clouds and atmospheric debris for the sun and moon to "become" visible or "appear" to an observer on the surface of the earth in order to establish the keeping of time.

i think the big give away is the marking of time by the sun...it is not mentioned when he first created light..

That's because the sun and moon were in orbit but not yet visible for the marking of time to occur until day four!. The same word "hayah" (let there be) used in conjunction with the word "light" on the first day is also used with the word "light" on the fourth day. This consistency coupled with science and contextual analysis proves the pre-existing nature of these bodies.

.in vs 17 god set the lights that he spoke into existence...as in let there be light in vs 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.no mention of the vault.. until day four because it wasn't created yet...just light which was good...so my question still remains...why was their evening and morning on the 2nd and 3rd day without the sun?

By the end of day one, the earth was already spinning on its axis. The light from the sun was translucent (ability to distinguish light from darkness) but not yet transparent until day four. Even today on a cloudy day, we can distinguish day from night but we cannot tell where the sun is positioned in the sky. On day four, enough cloud cover was cleared away so the atmosphere "hayah" [became] (vs 14) transparent enough to pinpoint the sun and moon's position in the sky, hence the ability for an observer standing on the surface of the earth to establish "signs, seasons, days, and years". It's not that hard to understand.

with this logic, why can't god create light without the sun, son?

"O me of little faith" . Your faith seems to be greater than mine...lol... I find it perplexing that you believe God can create a mysterious light source to heat the earth enough for liquid water to exist before day four, but cannot fathom Him creating Adam 6,000 years ago. I'm beginning to think you are as confused about your faith as you are about the creation account

 

[Looncall]

No, the Bible doesn't say the earth is just 6,000 years old. Nor does it says humans built a tower to reach God. Genesis 11:4 states "Let us build ourselves a city and also a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a celebrated name for ourselves." The Genesis account speaks of the expanse of atmosphere as the heavens. So these builders apparently were constructing an edifice for false worship, of which many such exist today. The estimation of ages for artifacts is simply guesswork, and dating methods are notoriously unreliable, but dates are apparently accepted without question, regardless of how far-fetched they are.

​

I thought you religious types were not supposed to tell lies. That instruction seems to have remarkably little effect on your behaviour.

 

[waitasec]

And you are forgetting fifth grade science tells us water, in its liquid form, along with its processes would not even exist without the sun...Critical thinking, remember.

but you didn't answer the question, if the sun was there, why would god need to separate the water? there is no water in the sky, unless condensation occurs...
chapter 2 mentions something very interesting
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground...
here is a very clear indication of superstition...that god sends the rain.

Nothing? My bible says He created the heavens and earth--and as much as you want to deny it in order to uphold your belief, you and I both know water cycles cannot exist without the heat from the sun.

no. your question was

2. So what existed in the "heavens" between day one and day three?

it seems you lost focus here...
so yes, nothing according to genesis...not according to me but according to what your bible says... until god created the sun moon and stars...

and you never got back to me about the "lesser light" dilemma. the moon is not a source of light...you know that, right

The Hebrew term "let there be" is "hayah" which can also mean "become" or "appear". On day four, God cleared enough of the clouds and atmospheric debris for the sun and moon to "become" visible or "appear" to an observer on the surface of the earth in order to establish the keeping of time.

and plant life was able to sustain with all this debris...for how long...?

That's because the sun and moon were in orbit but not yet visible for the marking of time to occur until day four!. The same word "hayah" (let there be) used in conjunction with the word "light" on the first day is also used with the word "light" on the fourth day. This consistency coupled with science and contextual analysis proves the pre-existing nature of these bodies.

"This inconsistency coupled with science and contextual analysis proves the pre-existing nature of these bodies are irreconcilable..."
yes yes, that's better...
14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky... created on day 2
god made the vaults in the sky for the water the day before...no mention of any vaults on day 1...

By the end of day one, the earth was already spinning on its axis. The light from the sun was translucent (ability to distinguish light from darkness) but not yet transparent until day four. Even today on a cloudy day, we can distinguish day from night but we cannot tell where the sun is positioned in the sky. On day four, enough cloud cover was cleared away so the atmosphere "hayah" [became] (vs 14) transparent enough to pinpoint the sun and moon's position in the sky, hence the ability for an observer standing on the surface of the earth to establish "signs, seasons, days, and years". It's not that hard to understand.

and it's all about the observers point of view right... heard of tunnel vision?
if god hadn't created the vaults how can you conjure up this notion
lets read what happened on day 1 again shall we...
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

it was day 2 god made the vaults in order for the water to separate...
day 3 plants and day 4 sun moon and stars...
it doesn't make sense!!! it is so obvious...

"O me of little faith" . Your faith seems to be greater than mine...lol... I find it perplexing that you believe God can create a mysterious light source to heat the earth enough for liquid water to exist before day four, but cannot fathom Him creating Adam 6,000 years ago. I'm beginning to think you are as confused about your faith as you are about the creation account

are you serious?
you said it not me...

God can "make" something out of nothing, as He did in verse 1

moses thought it was possible...

so i still do not understand why there was the cycle of day and night if the sun hadn't been made until day 4....
it's no problem for me, i presented the argument against this myth... extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence to support it and thus far it's been very entertaining ...

 

[Witch9]

If there was no pre-existing sun . . . how could the spirit be hovering over the surface of the "waters" . . . ? Shouldn't it be hovering over the surface of the "ice"?

Nah, no ice. You see, temperature didn't exist until the spirit invented thermometers, and that didn't happen until the third week.

But it took another week to invent thermostats, so the instant we had temperature the Earth was plunged into the first ice age.

But it took awhile for the spirit to figure out out to use the thermostat. So all the ice melted and we had the great flood.

Btw, have you noticed this global warming stuff? I think the thermostat's broken.

:biglaugh:

 

[newhope101]

Creationists have their own models based on assumptions and can just as easily come up with 6,000 years as billions, just like evos.

Six Thousand-Year-Old Earth - God Said Man Said

 

[rusra02]

I thought you religious types were not supposed to tell lies. That instruction seems to have remarkably little effect on your behaviour.

What lies?

 

[PolyHedral]

Creationists have their own models based on assumptions and can just as easily come up with 6,000 years as billions, just like evos.

Six Thousand-Year-Old Earth - God Said Man Said

Because the evolutionists have no recorded history of man prior to the 6,000 plus years declared in God's Word...

That exact fact has been cited multiple times in this thread alone. Settlements have been found dating back over 5000 years before Genesis.

 

[outhouse]

Are you folk for real? Arguing about the details of ancient myths is like squabbling about the arrangement of the furniture in Sherlock Holmes's rooms.

Genesis is obviously an ancient myth, a mere campfire tale, just one among thousands of such, not a science text. It may possibly have some merit as literature, but not as history.

I agree with your statement %100

There is still over %60 in the usa that follow the genesis creation myth and some that still fight to bring myths into the classroom again.

in my opinion, its not to be taken lightly less you want our children having their educations ruined