That's because the atonement took place on the cross not in the garden. No one is denying that Jesus wasn't under tremendous stress (enough to cause his sweat to be mixed with blood) but the actual sacrifice was done on the cross. Obviously, he shed his blood from the beatings and whippings up to the point he was hung on the cross and finally "gave up the ghost."
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Christians: I intend to watch Passion of the Christ tonight for the first time
- Thread starter Watchmen
- Start date
Actually the atonement begain in Gethsamane and concluded on the cross. At both places he suffered for our sins.
RND
Seventh-day Adventist
Shedding drops of blood seems to signify that death was immanent and He was taking on the sin of the world to me too.
Again the Son of God was seized with superhuman agony. Fainting and exhausted, He staggered back, and prayed as He had prayed before:
"O My Father,if this cup may not pass away from Me, except I drink it, Thy will be done." Matthew 26:42.
The agony of this prayer forced drops of blood from His pores. Again He sought the disciples for sympathy, and again He found them sleeping. His presence aroused them. They looked upon His face with fear, for it was stained with blood. They could not understand the anguish of mind which His face expressed. The third time He sought the place of prayer. A horror of great darkness overcame Him. He had lost the presence of His Father. Without this, He feared that in His human nature He could not endure the test.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I guess our Jesus just suffered more than your Jesus.
Not according to the New Testament. But, I realize you don't base your beliefs on the New Testament but on "modern revelation".
LOL. I guess so.I guess our Jesus just suffered more than your Jesus.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
We base them on both, actually. But where in the New Testament does it actually state that "the atonement took place on the cross"? If you can find that verse, please tell me, because I'm not aware of it.
Completely and utterly false! "[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (NASB) Mark 15:34
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]The Greek word for "forsaksen" is EGKATALEIPO which means to "leave, abandon, or leave behind." So why and how could God the Father leave Christ?[/FONT] First of all, I believe Jesus is God (the 2nd person of the holy Trinity). It would be impossible for God to leave or abandon God. However, Jesus was also a Man. Clearly, Jesus, as a Man, felt as though God the Father had turned His back on His only begotten Son. For remember, God (in His infinite holiness) cannot look upon sin. Jesus had become sin for us, according to 2 Cor. 5:21.
Isaiah 53:6 states: "All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; but the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him." This happened on the cross NOT in the garden of Gethsemane.
John 1:29 "The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"
1 Peter 3:18 "For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust".
1 John 3:5 "And you know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin."
Jesus did not become a sinner, He simply took the sins of the world and bore our punishment.
"[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Jesus was a sinless man. As a result, He was able to take the sin of the world onto Himself just before He died. As a result, a sinless man died. A man who did not deserve to die because God the Father placed the sins of the world on Him. He did not deserve to die, but He did. When He died, He experienced the pain and death that every man and woman had deserved. But He did not deserve it. In this way God has shown His love to us. Jesus willingly died in our place because He loved us. What a horrible experience that must have been for a holy being to experience!"[/FONT]
Did Jesus become sin?
I would recommend the following website for a more detailed explanation of how Jesus is our Savior. Introduction to Solid Roots
Throughout the New Testament it is the death of Christ that is stressed. Consider the following passages which refer to the reconciliation of Christ:
Romans 5:8- "But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
Romans 5:10- For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."
Hebrews 9:22 states that without the shedding (not sweating) of blood, there is no remission of sins.
Never is the Garden of Gethsemane mentioned as playing a role in the atonement. Instead, it is the cross that is emphasized.
Galatians 6:14- "But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world."
Philippians 2:8- "And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."
I Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1475294#_ftn1
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1475294#_ftnref1
Not to be argumentative, but can you please show me where the bible states that Jesus shed blood at Gethsemane?
Thanks and I wish you and all who read here a meaningful and joyous Resurrection Sunday. :shout
Edward
zomg
I aim to misbehave!
41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stones cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
Luke 22
42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
Luke 22
Thank you for sharing that passage of scripture. I thought that was the passage being referred to in the previous message. I, too, believe those words. However, it does NOT say that Jesus sweat drops of blood. The phrase "as it were" basically, "if it were so" or "so to speak." Some translations use the word "like." Nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus sweat blood.
I trust that you are having a meaningful resurrection Sunday.
Edward
Can you tell me who had the revelation and when it was ratified in conference?
Thanks.
Edward
Joseph Smith. I'll find a more specific reference later.
zomg
I aim to misbehave!
From one of my favorite passages of scripture. This is Christ speaking through Joseph Smith to a man named Martin Harris.
15 Therefore I command you to repentrepent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sorehow sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.
16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spiritand would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink
19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.
-Doctrine and Covenants 19:15-19
Thanks for sharing, FotC. This clarifies some things for me. One, that this sweating blood concept is unique to the LDS faith, two, it is part of your doctrine and three, it is not based on Biblical teachings.
Have a nice week.
Edward
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
It's based on a logical interpretation of biblical teachings. How, specifically do you interpret "...his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground."Even if you think the description is just a simile and that His sweat was was "like" drops of blood, you have to have some idea in mind what that means. In what way was His sweat like blood? In color? In consistency? What would it have been if it were like blood and not like ordinary sweat?
And more importantly, why does it bug traditional Christians so much to think that Christ's suffering began in Gethsemane? It was in Gethsemane where He required the presence of an angel to ease His suffering, not on the cross. We LDS are definitely not trying to minimize His actual death by crucifixion, but just to stress that it was not on the cross where the transfer of guilt took place.