Christians Only: Should we have denominations in Christianity?

[katya1965]

Human weaknesses and the machinations of the church's enemies lead to schisms and multiplication of denominations. An example is the recent history of ROCOR, or the KGB/FSB special operation of infiltrating and recruiting agents inside ROCOR with the subsequent absorption of a part of ROCOR and splitting of the part that remained unabsorbed. Until the end of XX century there was one ROCOR, then there were two, ROCOR(V) and ROCOR(L). Then they became separate denominations, headed by: Agafangel (Pashkovsky), Anastasius (Surzhik), Anthony (Orlov), Anthony (Rudey), Valentin (Rusantsov), Victor (Pivovarov), Vladimir (Tselischev), Gregory (Lurie), Damaskin (Balabanov), Lazar (Zhurbenko), Stefan (Babaev), Stefan (Sabelnik), Filaret (Rozhnov), Filaret (Semovskikh). And what would you say about a bishop who broke communion with his Metropolitan-First Hierarch, waited until he died, founded his own denomination, declared himself the sole heir of his former First Hierarch and canonized him as a saint?

 

[B-psychedelic]

Blessed be Our lord God Jesus Christ, Amen.

Now, Christianity by far is the only religion with a lot of denominations and denominations are not bad in it self because Christianity does not seek to change a persons tradition or customs but to point out how to improve them. If you are a Greek polytheist, Christianity only seeks to point you to the one true God and not about your culture. you can still speak your language, eat your food and listen to music but geared towards the one true God through Christ Jesus.​

But If the doctrine of that denomination is not aligned with the doctrine of Christ (Death, burial, resurrection and the salvation of mankind through him) and his great commission, then that is not a Christian denomination irrespective of the name of that denomination.​

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Blessed be Our lord God Jesus Christ, Amen.

Now, Christianity by far is the only religion with a lot of denominations and denominations are not bad in it self because Christianity does not seek to change a persons tradition or customs but to point out how to improve them. If you are a Greek polytheist, Christianity only seeks to point you to the one true God and not about your culture. you can still speak your language, eat your food and listen to music but geared towards the one true God through Christ Jesus.​

But If the doctrine of that denomination is not aligned with the doctrine of Christ (Death, burial, resurrection and the salvation of mankind through him) and his great commission, then that is not a Christian denomination irrespective of the name of that denomination.​

Given that Christianity is a belief based religion, it is scandalous that there is no unity about what precisely those beliefs are. And not just lack of unity: 10s of thousands of denominations. Compare this to the four movements in Judaism, or the 3 forms of Islam. Do you not see how the fracturing of the church is a major problem for Christian credibility?

Just a few examples (I'm not going to make this the long post it deserves to be):

• Christians cannot agree on what makes a person a Christian. Some denominations say baptism. Other denominations say observing Christian ethics. Still others say it is ascribing to the Nicene Creed. And still others say it is having an emotional experience where they make Jesus their personal Lord and Savior.
• Some denominations teach free will. Others teach a severe form of predestination.
• Some denominations say you are saved by faith alone, while others emphasize that there can be no faith without works.
• Some denominations have seven sacraments, some only two, and some have no sacraments at all.

And by the way, ALL Christian denominations base their beliefs on the teachings of Jesus. ALL of them claim to be Bible based. What we have are differences in interpretation.

 

[B-psychedelic]

Given that Christianity is a belief based religion, it is scandalous that there is no unity about what precisely those beliefs are. And not just lack of unity: 10s of thousands of denominations. Compare this to the four movements in Judaism, or the 3 forms of Islam. Do you not see how the fracturing of the church is a major problem for Christian credibility?

Just a few examples (I'm not going to make this the long post it deserves to be):

• Christians cannot agree on what makes a person a Christian. Some denominations say baptism. Other denominations say observing Christian ethics. Still others say it is ascribing to the Nicene Creed. And still others say it is having an emotional experience where they make Jesus their personal Lord and Savior.
• Some denominations teach free will. Others teach a severe form of predestination.
• Some denominations say you are saved by faith alone, while others emphasize that there can be no faith without works.
• Some denominations have seven sacraments, some only two, and some have no sacraments at all.

And by the way, ALL Christian denominations base their beliefs on the teachings of Jesus. ALL of them claim to be Bible based. What we have are differences in interpretation.

So I would like to make certain things clear;
1. a) Christianity Is not a religion but a relationship With God through Christ Jesus.
b) Christianity is founded on these principles; Trinity Deity of Jesus, His Crucifixion, Death, Burial, Resurrection, the Promise of His Return, And the belief of Him Being the only route to salvation.
If you reject any of these, you can't be a Christian. (Galatians 1:8)

2. I mentioned that denominations are good because it reveal the facts that "Religion" is always open to criticisms unlike other religions you made mentioned of. (Romans 14:2-23)

3. Lastly, if you don't remember what I said earlier; irrespective of your tribe, race, color, etc..., Christianity does not seek to change that aspect of your life only that it should be in line with the principles stated in (1. b) [Galatians 3:28 (There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.)]

 

[IndigoChild5559]

1. a) Christianity Is not a religion but a relationship With God through Christ Jesus.

Please go no further. There is no discussion if we cannot agree on this.

There is an old saying, "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, has feathers like a duck, it's a duck."

Christians have a God, they pray, they worship, they have a sacred text, they have a system of ethics, they have religious rituals like baptism and communion. In other words, it's a duck.

 

[B-psychedelic]

Please go no further. There is no discussion if we cannot agree on this.

There is an old saying, "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, has feathers like a duck, it's a duck."

Christians have a God, they pray, they worship, they have a sacred text, they have a system of ethics, they have religious rituals like baptism and communion. In other words, it's a duck.

1. Going with what you just said, does it mean Atheism, Scientism among others are religions?
2. Were the early church fathers called Christians before the name?
3. Are you also saying that a country is also a religion because they have their beliefs systems?
a). A country believes in something (God)
b). Every other thing you mentioned can be associated with their Constitution
Bro your perception is flawed kindly revise and come back again.
Just that people claim it is, doesn't always turn out to be true.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

1. Going with what you just said, does it mean Atheism, Scientism among others are religions?

Let's compare:
Christianity has a God, prayers, worship, a sacred text, a system of morals, and rituals like communion and baptism.
Atheism has no God, no prayers, no worship, no sacred text, no system of morals, and no rituals.

Seems pretty obvious which one is the religion, and which one isn't.

2. Were the early church fathers called Christians before the name?

Yes, the early church fathers were called Christians. I'm not sure what you mean be "before the name." Christian is not a name. It's description that means follower of the Christ.

3. Are you also saying that a country is also a religion because they have their beliefs systems?

It is more correct to say a culture can HAVE a religion, meaning those elements of the culture that are concerned with God/gods, prayers, rituals, etc. Not everything in a culture is religion. You can eat all the tacos you want without being religious. You can eat all the latkes you want and not be practicing Judaism. So it would not be accurate to say a culture IS a religion.

a). A country believes in something (God)

Countries are institutions, not people. A country has no beliefs at all. Only the people who live within it have beliefs, and in modern times it will likely vary from person to person.

b). Every other thing you mentioned can be associated with their Constitution

Really?
The US constitution does not mention any God/gods. It mentions no sacred text nor is it considered a sacred text. It contains no prayers. It does not teach any ethical system. It prescribes no religious rituals.

Bro your perception is flawed kindly revise and come back again.
Just that people claim it is, doesn't always turn out to be true.

I think you need to think this through again. You started off saying something that was false at face value, that atheism was a religion, when in fact atheism is the LACK of religion. Saying atheism is a religion is like saying bald is a hair color.

 

[learner Daniel]

There are currently over 3,000 versions of the bible in over 2000 languages. Each denomination interprets the particular bible they prefer in their own way giving rise to over 45000 denominations p, a number that is rising weekly.

And most importantly, welcome RF.

Your numbers are an exaggeration. It is based on a social studies type definition of denominations. I spoke with the authors of the encyclopedia those numbers comes from. They do not use a theological definition of denominations.

 

[ChristineM]

Your numbers are an exaggeration. It is based on a social studies type definition of denominations. I spoke with the authors of the encyclopedia those numbers comes from. They do not use a theological definition of denominations.

In my view they are not exaggerated, they are documented

And i dont really care who you spoke to, if however you can provide physical evidence to back up your statement i will check it

 

[Rival]

This thread is Christians only.

 

[B-psychedelic]

Let's compare:
Christianity has a God, prayers, worship, a sacred text, a system of morals, and rituals like communion and baptism.
Atheism has no God, no prayers, no worship, no sacred text, no system of morals, and no rituals.

Seems pretty obvious which one is the religion, and which one isn't.

Yes, the early church fathers were called Christians. I'm not sure what you mean be "before the name." Christian is not a name. It's description that means follower of the Christ.

It is more correct to say a culture can HAVE a religion, meaning those elements of the culture that are concerned with God/gods, prayers, rituals, etc. Not everything in a culture is religion. You can eat all the tacos you want without being religious. You can eat all the latkes you want and not be practicing Judaism. So it would not be accurate to say a culture IS a religion.

Countries are institutions, not people. A country has no beliefs at all. Only the people who live within it have beliefs, and in modern times it will likely vary from person to person.

Really?
The US constitution does not mention any God/gods. It mentions no sacred text nor is it considered a sacred text. It contains no prayers. It does not teach any ethical system. It prescribes no religious rituals.

I think you need to think this through again. You started off saying something that was false at face value, that atheism was a religion, when in fact atheism is the LACK of religion. Saying atheism is a religion is like saying bald is a hair color.

1. What is your concept of God or a god? To us Christians, the idea of God has to be the entity behind the creation of the universe, who set up rules or laws to guide his creation examples are moral absolutes (objective morality)

2. is the universe eternal? the answer is no. It is not, according to science, the universe has a cause, and if that's true then it was created and the question is by who and that's where science is stuck. Religion answers the question but you wouldn't accept the fact.

See, religion made claims of a Creator and the universe his/her/ creation, but people wanted to disprove that fact by turning to science. After a long time of winding, twisting, and turning came back to the simple fact that it is created and now sparks another argument that denies the entity provided by religion yet has not offered a fitting alternative.

As limited science as a tool has been proven to be, people still want to base their argument on that. If a story is hard to believe, that doesn't rule out the possibility of it being true.

we are dealing with an incomprehensible and complex being, if test tubes can be used to figure him out then he wouldn't be an incomprehensible and complex being.

i can see you're knowledgeable but in this situation, knowledge isn't enough, and that's what man needs to understand.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

1. What is your concept of God or a god? To us Christians, the idea of God has to be the entity behind the creation of the universe, who set up rules or laws to guide his creation examples are moral absolutes (objective morality)

I think that there is a big difference between God and gods, although both are religious concepts.

When we say God, we are referring to one singular entity that created the universe, meaning that he/she/it exists outside the universe, either in part or in entirety.

When we talk about the gods of paganism, we are not talking about anything outside of nature. There are things that have the power to effect our lives, and some of those things have a LOT of power, like storms, or war, or tyrants. The idea of paganism (at least in its original form) is to placate these powers so that they don't hurt you.

FWIW I do believe in God.

2. is the universe eternal? the answer is no. It is not, according to science, the universe has a cause, and if that's true then it was created and the question is by who and that's where science is stuck. Religion answers the question but you wouldn't accept the fact.

We know that the universe had a beginning, what we call the Big Bang. Since time came into existence then, some would say speaking of "before" is a bit like discussing what is south of the South Pole. However, that said, we do not know what caused the Big Bang, or whether the universe existed in some other form prior, or whether other universes also exist.

The best predictions we have of what will happen to the universe is that it will continue to exist, but not in the form we know it today. There is not enough mass to create the kind of gravity necessary to stop the expansion or have it collapse once more into a singularly. In fact, the expansion is accelerating, although we are not sure why. At any rate, eventually all the stars will burn out, leaving the universe cold, dark, and lifeless.

See, religion made claims of a Creator and the universe his/her/ creation, but people wanted to disprove that fact by turning to science.

Disproving God has NEVER been the objective of science. Since God is not part of nature, meaning that he can't be measured, he is beyond the purview of science. This is why science can neither prove nor disprove God.

After a long time of winding, twisting, and turning came back to the simple fact that it is created

Huh? Science has not proven that the universe was created. It is one of many possibilities as to why the universe exists. For example, one hypothesis is to say that the universe has always existed, albeit not in the same form we have today. And believe it or not, there is nothing unscientific in saying, "We don't know."

and now sparks another argument that denies the entity provided by religion yet has not offered a fitting alternative.

I'm not sure what you are referring to. Logic, like science, can neither prove nor disprove God.

As limited science as a tool has been proven to be,

Limited???? Science has done more to reduce suffering than all the religion in the history of humanity. It has given us modern medicine, with its antibiotics, vaccines, and needed surgeries. And it has given us tech, with its great capacity to reduce labor. Most people no longer feed themselves due to the sweat on their brow. Do you really want to go back to a world without washer machines?

people still want to base their argument on that. If a story is hard to believe, that doesn't rule out the possibility of it being true.

Science and logic (meaning arguments without fallacies) are the two greatest tools we have for determining the truth about the natural world. While I think religion is a very good thing that increases our wellbeing, it has not shown itself to be very accurate or helpful in the sorts of things that science is. Do you really want to go back to the time when Israelites believed in a flat earth, with sheol underneath, and a sphere of water surrounding it?

 

[Jimmy]

There are so many different denominations of Christianity and more and more keep coming. I have always believed that this was regular, until I read where God said that we are all one in Christ. Why is this and should we have all of these?

Eh, there’s only six main groups

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Your numbers are an exaggeration. It is based on a social studies type definition of denominations. I spoke with the authors of the encyclopedia those numbers comes from. They do not use a theological definition of denominations.

According to the World Christian Encyclopedia (3rd edition, 2019), there are over 45,000 Christian denominations globally.

The Center for the Study of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary is another respected source. Their research, reflected in the "Status of Global Christianity" report, also supports the high number of Christian denominations, estimating approximately 45,000 distinct denominations.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Eh, there’s only six main groups

The six "main groups" are not denominations. Each group is further divided bases on doctrinal disputes and practices.

For example, one cannot dump all baptists into the same category. Let's compare two Baptist denominations. Free baptists tend towards an Arminian view of free will, meaning that people cooperate in their salvation. North American Baptists tend to prefer Calvinism.

BTW, not that this is all that important... The major Christian groups that I see are Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Protestant, those very few denominations still around that pre-existed the Protestant reformation (Anabaptists such as the Amish and Mennonites), and the Restorationists (like the LDS). Is that the same list of six that you have?

 

[Jimmy]

The six "main groups" are not denominations. Each group is further divided bases on doctrinal disputes and practices.

For example, one cannot dump all baptists into the same category. Let's compare two Baptist denominations. Free baptists tend towards an Arminian view of free will, meaning that people cooperate in their salvation. North American Baptists tend to prefer Calvinism.

BTW, not that this is all that important... The major Christian groups that I see are Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Protestant, those very few denominations still around that pre-existed the Protestant reformation (Anabaptists such as the Amish and Mennonites), and the Restorationists (like the LDS). Is that the same list of six that you have?

Insignificant differences for the most part

 

[learner Daniel]

This thread is Christians only.

I am a christian

 

[learner Daniel]

According to the World Christian Encyclopedia (3rd edition, 2019), there are over 45,000 Christian denominations globally.

The Center for the Study of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary is another respected source. Their research, reflected in the "Status of Global Christianity" report, also supports the high number of Christian denominations, estimating approximately 45,000 distinct denominations.

It is the authors of that I spoke with.

"

HOW DO YOU DEFINE A "DENOMINATION"?​

The most detailed level of our taxonomy of global Christianity is Christian denominations, defined as an organized Christian church, tradition, religious group, community of people, aggregate of worship centre, usually within a specific country, whose component congregations and members are called by the same name in different areas, regarding themselves as an autonomous Christian church distinct from other churches and traditions. Denominations are defined and measured at the country level, creating a large number of separate denominations within Christian families and Christian traditions. For example, the presence of the Catholic Church in the world’s 234 countries results in 234 Catholic “denominations”, though these can be further subdivided by rite (e.g., Byzantine or Latin). The typical way for Christians to count themselves is at the local congregational level and then aggregate these totals at the city, province, state, regional and finally, national levels.

Individual congregations are not counted as “denominations.” We do make note of the fact that many independent congregations are not a part of any denomination. If those churches were to form an independent network with a name, we would consider them a denomination. Using this method, we report 45,000 Christian denominations in the world in 2019."

Quick Facts About Global Christianity - Center for the Study of Global Christianity

www.gordonconwell.edu

As you know there is only one Catholic Church, denomination, not 234!

 

[learner Daniel]

The six "main groups" are not denominations. Each group is further divided bases on doctrinal disputes and practices.

For example, one cannot dump all baptists into the same category. Let's compare two Baptist denominations. Free baptists tend towards an Arminian view of free will, meaning that people cooperate in their salvation. North American Baptists tend to prefer Calvinism.

BTW, not that this is all that important... The major Christian groups that I see are Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Protestant, those very few denominations still around that pre-existed the Protestant reformation (Anabaptists such as the Amish and Mennonites), and the Restorationists (like the LDS). Is that the same list of six that you have?

You are using a theological definition, they are not.

 

[learner Daniel]

I am still trying to figure out the rules about where I am allowed to post and where I can read to learn. Any links please.