Christians: please help me out with this

[Chadley]

Wow, so in this scenario, we all are puppets, to bow to God.
So what would be the use in even having a life at all, what purpose would any of us serve?
the tree of knowledge was in the garden of eden and passed onto all mankind through born inheritance from Adam and Eve

That's exactly what I'm trying to understand!!! We aren't puppets but if god knows everything there isn't a point for him to have created us. Its the hardest thing I have ever tried to do. Really, truly looking at this paradox with an open mind is crazy. Everyone agrees god is all knowing but when you ask them about the life is a test thing, its like they forget about the omniscience of god.

 

[Thief]

So then god created us for company? or to observe a "unique spirit"?

Yeah.

Otherwise there's not much else to do.
Create more stars?.....more balls of dust?....loose rocks?

His creation responds to His touch...but it does not really 'respond'.

 

[james2ko]

So in other words, God isn't all knowing and under duress

1. God was never under duress, Abraham and Isaac were.

(meaning you used the terms normal and extreme circumstances that means things sometimes are easy for God and others are tough)

2. What's so tough about waiting for someone to make a decision before deciding a course of action?

God can make a mistake.

3. Prove it..

Psalm 139, just one of many scriptures that says before a word was on my tongue you knew it.

4. Knowing our every thought is not akin to always knowing our actions. Ever think of doing something and wind up doing something totally different or not doing it at all?

1Sa_2:3 "Talk no more so very proudly; Let no arrogance come from your mouth, For the LORD is the God of knowledge; And by Him actions [not thoughts or feelings] are weighed​

Come on man, lets meet in the middle here. It's obvious the bible speaks a whole lot about god knowing everything. So when Abraham was about to kill his son and god had no idea what was going to happen.....that seems a bit like blasphemy, there is no grey area with saying god is omniscient either he is or he isn't.

5. Think about it. If God knew what Abraham was going to do, why even bother testing Him?

Its frustrating that people want him to be both.

6. God does have that effect on skeptics

 

[Istina]

That's exactly what I'm trying to understand!!! We aren't puppets but if god knows everything there isn't a point for him to have created us. Its the hardest thing I have ever tried to do. Really, truly looking at this paradox with an open mind is crazy. Everyone agrees god is all knowing but when you ask them about the life is a test thing, its like they forget about the omniscience of god.

I not sure how you see a paradox in this.

1. God created us with free will.
Why? Because God desires a relationship with humans that is free of compulsion, and is therefore open, honest and loving. This can only be achieved by a free, autonomous act of the will to follow God.

2. Free will means some will reject God.
Rejecting or disobeying God is what brings evil into the world. The world God made is the only one in which true love is accessible; but where such love exists, so too does evil.

3. Our free will does not negate God's omniscience.
God knows our every action in advance, but that doesn't mean he determines it. The choices we make are our own. They are to some degree conditioned by our environment (e.g. our parents, our cultural upbringing etc), however we are all ultimately responsible for our own actions.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Wow, so in this scenario, we all are puppets, to bow to God.
So what would be the use in even having a life at all, what purpose would any of us serve?

Yes, indeed, what would be the use.

Scary to realize we are all puppets, eh?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

I do not think God put us here to proove our love to God
I think it is in order to change our minds from unbelief to belief.


The entire Bible is about how we can love and honor god. Without a doubt the only reason we are on earth is to love god. It makes zero sense otherwise. Even if God put us here to change our minds from unbelief to belief, its still from not believing in HIM to believing in HIM. Even in that scenario its about loving and honoring God. Its all we were created to do.

It makes zero sense in either case.

 

[Thief]

There's not much else to do.
Create more stars?.....more balls of dust?....loose rocks?

His creation responds to His touch...but it does not really 'respond'.

So I quote myself to make the point.
We are not our own handiwork.
The design has a particular function.

Then back to God we go.

 

[Pegg]

God knows everything. It created everything. It knows no time since it always was and always will be. There isn't a decision you could ever make that god didn't know you were going to make. God knew before it ever created you, whether or not you were destined for heaven. So my question is, How is life a test?

assuming God does work like that (as you described), then life could only be a test for ourselves. If God already knows what we will do and how he will judge us, then there would be no need for him to even create us in the first place

that makes no sense at all, does it.

The truth is that God does not peer into the future of each one of us, nor does he know the outcome for us individually unless he chooses to look. The indication is that he does not choose to look but rather lets us make our own choices...whatever they may be.

 

[sunshineydays]

Yes, indeed, what would be the use.

Scary to realize we are all puppets, eh?

Gladly for me I know I am not a puppet and that God loves all, no doubt in my mind soul or spirit, for I have seen, and i belief all will have had their chance to see the truth as it is, When the end does come there will be no excuse for all mankind
The beginning of wisdom is the fear of the living Creator known as Christ's Father.
Gladly, we are in the time of grace, for each of us to seek truth, which I think all are doing, yet ultimately I think we all are seeking life. I for one have found this life in belief and trust, have watched and experienced it.
So if I am a puppet, I am elated to be God's, the Father of Jesus Christ. All else I found to be futile if it is w/o God
Thank You for your straight forwardness it helps in my walk
sunshineydays

 

[rusra02]

God knows everything. It created everything. It knows no time since it always was and always will be. There isn't a decision you could ever make that god didn't know you were going to make. God knew before it ever created you, whether or not you were destined for heaven. So my question is, How is life a test?

The Bible doesn't teach that God exercises his ability to foreknow the future constantly and for every matter. A person with the ability to sing doesn't sing constantly. Genesis 18:20,21 speaks of God's "getting to know" through investigation the truthfulness of a matter, or otherwise. God's exercise of his almighty power and his ability to foreknow the future is done according to his purpose and will. Thus God's exercise of foreknowledge is selective and controlled by God.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Gladly for me I know I am not a puppet and that God loves all, no doubt in my mind soul or spirit, for I have seen, and i belief all will have had their chance to see the truth as it is, When the end does come there will be no excuse for all mankind
The beginning of wisdom is the fear of the living Creator known as Christ's Father.
Gladly, we are in the time of grace, for each of us to seek truth, which I think all are doing, yet ultimately I think we all are seeking life. I for one have found this life in belief and trust, have watched and experienced it.
So if I am a puppet, I am elated to be God's, the Father of Jesus Christ. All else I found to be futile if it is w/o God
Thank You for your straight forwardness it helps in my walk
sunshineydays

Of course you are

When presented with a dissenting but valid view, you abandon your own analysis and spout rote non sequitur praise

that's what he wants you to do. Puppets do what the strings command. And you don't "know", because as a puppet, you never would be able to know. You want to know.. but you don't.

The beginning of True Wisdom is cutting your strings

 

[Pegg]

If that is true I Truly am sorry because I am wrong. Could you please give the book and numbers I can find this scripture? I just always thought that If a person believes that god doesn't know everything, that questions his divinity. But These are some scriptures I found. If what you said about god not knowing everything is actually in scripture, it's black and white proof of biblical contradiction.

1 John 3:19-20

By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

Isaiah 46:9

I am God, and there is none like me,
declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done.

it was mentioned earlier that God foresees his own purpose from start to beginning...he knows where his own purpose is heading and how he is going to accomplish it. He knew what would be necessary to redeem mankind and he knows that it will succeed and he 'foreordained' the heavenly kingdom for that very purpose

but when it comes to individuals, he does not use his power of foreknowledge in that way. The scriptures themselves reveal that God does not do that in such verses as:

Deuteronomy 30:19 I do take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against YOU today, that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, 20 by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice and by sticking to him; for he is your life and the length of your days

Deuteronomy 11:26 “See, I am putting before YOU today blessing and malediction: 27 the blessing, provided YOU will obey the commandments of Jehovah YOUR God that I am commanding YOU today; 28 and the malediction, if YOU will not obey the commandments of Jehovah YOUR God and YOU do turn aside from the way about which I am commanding YOU today, so as to walk after other gods whom YOU have not known.

Deut 30:15 “See, I do put before you today life and good, and death and bad. 16 [If you will listen to the commandments of Jehovah your God,] which I am commanding you today, so as to love Jehovah your God, to walk in his ways and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judicial decisions, then you will be bound to keep alive and to multiply, and Jehovah your God must bless you in the land to which you are going to take possession of it

Proverbs 19:16 He that is keeping the commandment is keeping his soul; he that is despising his ways will be put to death

Deuteronomy 32:47 For it is no valueless word for YOU, but it means YOUR life, and by this word YOU may lengthen YOUR days

Proverbs 3:1 My son, my law do not forget, and my commandments may your heart observe, 2 because length of days and years of life and peace will be added to you. 3 May loving-kindness and trueness themselves not leave you.


the power is in our own hand as to how our future turns out. We can choose life, or we can disobey God and see death....its out choice. God has not chosen a path for us, nor does he know which path we will take, if he did already know that, then there would be no need for him to give us a choice at another option.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

the power is in our own hand as to how our future turns out. We can choose life, or we can disobey God and see death....its out choice. God has not chosen a path for us, nor does he know which path we will take, if he did already know that, then there would be no need for him to give us a choice at another option.

Small correction: you'll see death no matter what you choose.

 

[Pegg]

Small correction: you'll see death no matter what you choose.

that may be true, however i believe God is faithful to his word, so it all rests on me as to what my outcome will be

 

[Thief]

Small correction: you'll see death no matter what you choose.

And afterwards.....what will you see?

 

[sunshineydays]

that's what he wants you to do. Puppets do what the strings command. And you don't "know", because as a puppet, you never would be able to know. You want to know.. but you don't.

The beginning of True Wisdom is cutting your strings[/quote]


So if you have cut your strings, how can one do this? If you have done this, then have you have come to know their is a God, and have made your choice about God, thus cutting the strings, and becoming your own God, no longer a puppet?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

that's what he wants you to do. Puppets do what the strings command. And you don't "know", because as a puppet, you never would be able to know. You want to know.. but you don't.

The beginning of True Wisdom is cutting your strings

So if you have cut your strings, how can one do this? If you have done this, then have you have come to know their is a God, and have made your choice about God, thus cutting the strings, and becoming your own God, no longer a puppet?

I have come to know there are many Gods, and that the one I escaped from, was the worst of them. There are Gods out there who don't want you to be their puppet. They are the best, but, they usually don't accept just anyone.

Go out in the world with no Gods whatsoever, that's how you cut the strings. Think the forbidden thoughts. Read forbidden subjects. Learn actual science. Then look back and see all the deceit that was heaped upon you in the name of God. And which is still heaped, in great juicy helpings, on others today.

Then, once you have settled, being walking again. And you might get a calling.

Becoming a God myself? I wish. I'd do a damn-sight better job than many at it.
Or are you making the mistake in thinking I'm an atheist?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

And afterwards.....what will you see?

I will see the vistas of Valhol; or, if I live very long and die without another's blood on me, perhaps a nap in Hel's realm.

your mileage may vary

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

God knows everything. It created everything. It knows no time since it always was and always will be. There isn't a decision you could ever make that god didn't know you were going to make. God knew before it ever created you, whether or not you were destined for heaven. So my question is, How is life a test?

I do not agree with your premise nor your conclusion. They are Calvinistic in reasoning,
They leave out Gods gift of Choice and free will.

God enabled us to evolve on a living world. We have the ability to advance and improve it, or destroy the very thing that supports us. This choice is both personal and collective. It can only be made by ourselves, though Free will.

God knows both paths and how they conclude, he has left the choice to us.

It is no test... it is final.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

God knows the both paths and how they conclude,

he has left the choice to us.

These two are mutually exclusive, mate :help: