Christians: please help me out with this

[Me Myself]

The ability to predict...is not the same as 'fixing' the future.

Not in itself, but when joined with omnipotent it does give you that ability.

 

[Thief]

Not in itself, but when joined with omnipotent it does give you that ability.

And now you assume all of this a fixed situation.

Display in broken texts of scripture.
No hope of self control.

Nay.

God gave Man dominion.
Your next word...is yours to make.

 

[Chadley]

The word create is better translated "transform, organize, mold, refine" - so I believe that God is cleaning up a mess that He did not make - He is giving us the chance to be transformed into a new creature if we choose to follow Him and accept the atonement.

Yes, He knows everything, knows how it will all turn out - we are the ones who have an incomplete knowledge, the test is for us, not for God. Why go through with it if the outcome is already known? Why test us to see who we are if He already knows who we are? - Justice. It is not just to label someone for something they have never done.

we proving to ourselves who we are through our actions. God already knows - we're the ones learning who we are.

OK, but in the end god created us and ultimately decides if we get into heaven. So it doesn't make sense if the test is for us since he already knows everything and we do not decide anything or sway his judgement in anyway. But could you please touch more on this notion that god did not create the universe?

 

[Chadley]

And now you assume all of this a fixed situation.

Display in broken texts of scripture.
No hope of self control.

Nay.

God gave Man dominion.
Your next word...is yours to make.

You write wonderful poems.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Not in itself, but when joined with omnipotent it does give you that ability.

True. Since God is already aware of the outcomes, and God cannot be wrong as to his knowledge of which future it is which turns out ['he knows all possible outcomes' issue debunked here], the future is fixed because God knows it.

It only appears to us that we have free will.

 

[Chadley]

Illusion of free will would be deceit. Deceit would be a lie. God can not lie.
[Titus 1v2]

'How and when you will die' is out of harmony with Scripture.
King Solomon, known for having God-given wisdom, wrote:
Ecc [7v17].... why die before your time?

Do you drive through stop signs and red lights ?
If not, then you do not trust God has a set time for you to die.

Didn't Jesus teach just wrong place wrong time at Luke [13vs4,5] ?

If God knows exactly, why does Ecc [9v11] mentions that time and chance or unforeseen occurrences befall all of us? [wrong place wrong time]

So then there are scriptures that say god knows everything and other that say he doesn't. And If I did believe in God, I wouldn't drive through red lights because gods time for me to die might be the day I decide to drive through a red light. But this notion of god not knowing anything, think of what that could mean. What doesn't he know? HOW MUCH IS GOD UNSURE ABOUT?

 

[Chadley]

True. Since God is already aware of the outcomes, and God cannot be wrong as to his knowledge of which future it is which turns out ['he knows all possible outcomes' issue debunked here], the future is fixed because God knows it.

It only appears to us that we have free will.

Absolutely

 

[Dubio]

If life is a test, then God seems arbitrary and sometimes cruel. Some people face great hardships like giving birth to a handicapped child or they inherit their parent's mental illness like schizophrenia while others have not much more of a burden than acne. What kind of test is it when some face torment and others have it much easier?

We humans don't feel comfortable with a random universe but maybe the universe is random. You don't know what you're going to get. If you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, you could be washed away in a tsunami or a flower pot can land on your head walking in Manhattan. Maybe life is all about what you make it. Maybe that's what God intended life to be. maybe that is truly free will. Life would take courage under these circumstances but the reward could be great.

 

[Chadley]

1. For example, when God gave Abraham the supreme test of sacrificing his son Isaac, He did not know until that moment whether Abraham would choose to obey. Upon perceiving his choice, He told Abraham: "Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me" (Genesis 22:12). This was one of the most crucial points in the history of faith and in the plan of God! It was a challenge so intense, and involving such faith, that God did not know the choice Abraham would make.



2. Unless you know someone else that can create humans from dirt; raise them from the dead; know how many hairs we have on our head (Mat 10:30); knows the name of 300 sextillion (that's 300 followed by 21 zeros) stars (Psa 147:4) , I don't see how not knowing someone's choice, under extreme circumstances, will undermine His divinity.



3. Not really. The context of verse 20 is found in verse 18: 1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth." God has knowledge of all truth and all of our deeds, after we perform them. Although, this does not exclude Him from knowing us so well that, under normal circumstances, He may predict our next move. Similar to a parent knowing their child well enough to predict their next action or behavior.



4. God has a plan for mankind. He knows how it started and knows how it will end. For the most part, He allows us to exercise our free will, but will and has interfered when He feels our actions may derail His plan.

So in other words, God isn't all knowing and under duress (meaning you used the terms normal and extreme circumstances that means things sometimes are easy for God and others are tough) God can make a mistake. Psalm 139, just one of many scriptures that says before a word was on my tongue you knew it. Come on man, lets meet in the middle here. It's obvious the bible speaks a whole lot about god knowing everything. So when Abraham was about to kill his son and god had no idea what was going to happen.....that seems a bit like blasphemy, there is no grey area with saying god is omniscient either he is or he isn't. Its frustrating that people want him to be both.

 

[sunshineydays]

True. Since God is already aware of the outcomes, and God cannot be wrong as to his knowledge of which future it is which turns out ['he knows all possible outcomes' issue debunked here], the future is fixed because God knows it.

It only appears to us that we have free will.

So if no one has free will, that free will is an illusion,
Then God could not really claim truthfully that he loves all
God not being a liar, but the evil force is, has thus deceived us about about truth
So to me truth, sets one free and error puts one in bondage.
So if I am in bondage or anyone else, then their is error in their or my truth
But if I am free then their is no error in my truth.
So I guess seek to be free and find truth.
Now if we do not have free will, then one can not be free.
If we do, then we can, and only each individual can decide that in themselves if they are free or not. Others try to do this for others, but no one can except themselves, and those that do have a guide that is reliable, and every one that has this relies on their guide into this freedom, that the darkside has so well convoluted, keeping us from this freedom, through we have no free will, that has been so graciuosly offered through his Son Jesus Christ, the one and only mediator between man and God
sunshineydays

 

[Chadley]

So if no one has free will, that free will is an illusion,
Then God could not really claim truthfully that he loves all
God not being a liar, but the evil force is, has thus deceived us about about truth
So to me truth, sets one free and error puts one in bondage.
So if I am in bondage or anyone else, then their is error in their or my truth
But if I am free then their is no error in my truth.
So I guess seek to be free and find truth.
Now if we do not have free will, then one can not be free.
If we do, then we can, and only each individual can decide that in themselves if they are free or not. Others try to do this for others, but no one can except themselves, and those that do have a guide that is reliable, and every one that has this relies on their guide into this freedom, that the darkside has so well convoluted, keeping us from this freedom, through we have no free will, that has been so graciuosly offered through his Son Jesus Christ, the one and only mediator between man and God
sunshineydays

You kind of wandered off topic here. Its not about an evil force clouding minds to not see the truth. Nor whether or not God can truthfully say anything. It's about the paradox that if God knows everything why would he put us on earth to prove our love to him? he already knows.

 

[BruceDLimber]

So my question is, How is life a test?

REGARDLESS of whether or not God already knew everything, life is a test for each of us, as various scriptures explicitly assert!:

"Do men think when they say 'We believe,' they will be let alone and not put to proof?"

and

"God verily will sift them and test them."

Simple as that.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Heathen Hammer]

So if no one has free will, that free will is an illusion,
Then God could not really claim truthfully that he loves all
God not being a liar, but the evil force is, has thus deceived us about about truth

Or he could be a liar, and you would never know, because he made you unable to know, and there isn't a Tree of Knowledge of God in your Garden, is there?

There never was, anywhere.

Which is strange for a God who wants you to know truth.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

if he loves you, why does he want you to not know him, from the beginning?

I wouldn't do that to someone I loved. In fact, I never have.

 

[sunshineydays]

It's about the paradox that if God knows everything why would he put us on earth to prove our love to him? he already knows.[/quote]

I do not think God put us here to proove our love to God
I think it is in order to change our minds from unbelief to belief.
sunshineydays

 

[sunshineydays]

Or he could be a liar, and you would never know, because he made you unable to know, and there isn't a Tree of Knowledge of God in your Garden, is there?

There never was, anywhere.

Which is strange for a God who wants you to know truth.

Wow, so in this scenario, we all are puppets, to bow to God.
So what would be the use in even having a life at all, what purpose would any of us serve?
the tree of knowledge was in the garden of eden and passed onto all mankind through born inheritance from Adam and Eve

 

[Chadley]

REGARDLESS of whether or not God already knew everything, life is a test for each of us, as various scriptures explicitly assert!:

"Do men think when they say 'We believe,' they will be let alone and not put to proof?"

and

"God verily will sift them and test them."

Simple as that.

Peace,

Bruce

But various scriptures also explicitly assert that god knows the end of everything. You can't just say simple as that. This is a paradox that should be investigated.

 

[Thief]

But various scriptures also explicitly assert that god knows the end of everything. You can't just say simple as that. This is a paradox that should be investigated.

Not so difficult really.

God would be the First.....in mind, spirit....life.

He would also be alone...for a long time.

Creating Man, is a means to have unique spirit.
Your linear existence insures it.

Of course, somethings are withheld.
We would all be the same, if all things were delivered.
So your sense of knowing is going to be unique.

 

[Chadley]

It's about the paradox that if God knows everything why would he put us on earth to prove our love to him? he already knows.

I do not think God put us here to proove our love to God
I think it is in order to change our minds from unbelief to belief.
sunshineydays[/QUOTE]

The entire Bible is about how we can love and honor god. Without a doubt the only reason we are on earth is to love god. It makes zero sense otherwise. Even if God put us here to change our minds from unbelief to belief, its still from not believing in HIM to believing in HIM. Even in that scenario its about loving and honoring God. Its all we were created to do.

 

[Chadley]

Not so difficult really.

God would be the First.....in mind, spirit....life.

He would also be alone...for a long time.

Creating Man, is a means to have unique spirit.
Your linear existence insures it.

Of course, somethings are withheld.
We would all be the same, if all things were delivered.
So your sense of knowing is going to be unique.

So then god created us for company? or to observe a "unique spirit"?