Christians: The Nicene Creed?

[Saint Frankenstein]

Not sure about that. I consider myself a Christian because I believe in Jesus. But I find several things in the creed that I have a problem believing. So, no, the creed does not tie all Christians together.

Yes, and they used to be called heretics, having some correct beliefs but mixed with error. It's important to have unity of belief on key doctrines as in the creed, or it's very hard to say we even share the same faith. I can't relate to non-Trinitarian Christians, for example. It's basically a different religion, with a different concept of God.

 

[Truth in love]

Yes, and they used to be called heretics, having some correct beliefs but mixed with error. It's important to have unity of belief on key doctrines as in the creed, or it's very hard to say we even share the same faith. I can't relate to non-Trinitarian Christians, for example. It's basically a different religion, with a different concept of God.

What makes the creed superior to the scriptures?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What makes the creed superior to the scriptures?

They're two different things. The creed is a statement of faith and a summary of Christian belief that was agreed upon by the Church centuries ago. I don't understand how you're comparing it to the Bible.

 

[Truth in love]

They're two different things. The creed is a statement of faith and a summary of Christian belief that was agreed upon by the Church centuries ago. I don't understand how you're comparing it to the Bible.

To summarize your past statement; Those who don’t believe the ceeeds are not Christians.


So when I read the creeds and the Bible and accept the Bible as being correct how does that make me less then Christian?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

To summarize your past statement; Those who don’t believe the ceeeds are not Christians.


So when I read the creeds and the Bible and accept the Bible as being correct how does that make me less then Christian?

It means your beliefs are unorthodox, or - less charitably - heretical, not that you don't believe in Jesus. Listen, there has to be some standard of belief otherwise there is chaos and disunity, when Christ prayed that we may all be one, as He and the Father are one (John 17:21).

Can't be one if we don't even believe the same things about God and His nature. Just because someone believes in Jesus doesn't make them a Christian, either. New Agers, Muslims, Baha'is, etc. will all claim to love and follow Jesus, but you wouldn't say they are Christian, and the Jesus they believe is extremely different from the one in the Gospels. So what it means to follow Jesus or believe in Him obviously needs some clarification.

 

[Truth in love]

It means your beliefs are unorthodox, or - less charitably - heretical, not that you don't believe in Jesus. Listen, there has to be some standard of belief otherwise there is chaos and disunity, when Christ prayed that we may all be one, as He and the Father are one (John 17:21).

Can't be one if we don't even believe the same things about God and His nature. Just because someone believes in Jesus doesn't make them a Christian, either. New Agers, Muslims, Baha'is, etc. will all claim to love and follow Jesus, but you wouldn't say they are Christian, and the Jesus they believe is extremely different from the one in the Gospels. So what it means to follow Jesus or believe in Him obviously needs some clarification.

I fully agree on the need for unity, but as one who believes strongly in the Bible I cannot accept the creeds (not all bad, but some teachings do run very contrary to the clear teachings of the Bible).

Many like much of what Christ taught but deny His divinity.

this get us to the core issue. To believe the creeds as written I would have to reject Christ as preached in the Gospel of John.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

It means your beliefs are unorthodox, or - less charitably - heretical, not that you don't believe in Jesus. Listen, there has to be some standard of belief otherwise there is chaos and disunity, when Christ prayed that we may all be one, as He and the Father are one (John 17:21).

Can't be one if we don't even believe the same things about God and His nature. Just because someone believes in Jesus doesn't make them a Christian, either. New Agers, Muslims, Baha'is, etc. will all claim to love and follow Jesus, but you wouldn't say they are Christian, and the Jesus they believe is extremely different from the one in the Gospels. So what it means to follow Jesus or believe in Him obviously needs some clarification.

Did you ever think the people who wrote the creed did not understand the Jesus of the gospels? The creed was written by a group of men using theie own understanding. The gospels were written with the inspiration of God.

 

[Venni_Vetti_Vecci]

Here is the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

I approve the Nicene Creed. Not because they said it, but because the creed is in line with Biblical teachings.

Question: Do you either wholly accept it, partially accept it, or reject it all together?

And how important is it to you?

Very important.

But I used to have a very slight issue where it says Jesus Christ is "the only Son of God"

Because I believe that God directly created other deities too, apart from Jesus Christ

Well, the creed only states, you know, what John 3:16 says.

It says that Jesus is God's only begotten Son, doesn't it?

It does.

But I now realise that by "son" it means "human male" - I believe that only one human male was ever "begotten" by God and that that person was Jesus Christ. But I believe God created other divine offspring such as The Holy Spirit

For instance, the Holy Spirit was created by God The Father, but is not a "son" of God as it is not a "human male" so cannot be called a "son" of anyone! And I don't believe the other deities who are not parts of the Godhead are human either although they may be humanoid.

So at the end of the day this is not an issue and I accept The Nicene Creed in its entirety

The Holy Spirit wasn't created by God, amigo.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Here is the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

Question: Do you either wholly accept it, partially accept it, or reject it all together?

And how important is it to you?

It's important to me as it's a snappy and concise summary of my Christian faith and I like that I share it with a great many other people

I think I entirely accept it

But I used to have a very slight issue where it says Jesus Christ is "the only Son of God"

Because I believe that God directly created other deities too, apart from Jesus Christ

But I now realise that by "son" it means "human male" - I believe that only one human male was ever "begotten" by God and that that person was Jesus Christ. But I believe God created other divine offspring such as The Holy Spirit

For instance, the Holy Spirit was created by God The Father, but is not a "son" of God as it is not a "human male" so cannot be called a "son" of anyone! And I don't believe the other deities who are not parts of the Godhead are human either although they may be humanoid.

So at the end of the day this is not an issue and I accept The Nicene Creed in its entirety

I agree with all of it.. and it definitely says Jesus was not created, but that he is God.

 

[metis]

In order to better understand the Trinitarian concept as originally designed, one needs to remember the Church's use of "essence". IOW, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are of the "essence" of God.

 

[wellwisher]

Here is the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

Question: Do you either wholly accept it, partially accept it, or reject it all together?

And how important is it to you?

It's important to me as it's a snappy and concise summary of my Christian faith and I like that I share it with a great many other people

I think I entirely accept it

But I used to have a very slight issue where it says Jesus Christ is "the only Son of God"

Because I believe that God directly created other deities too, apart from Jesus Christ

But I now realise that by "son" it means "human male" - I believe that only one human male was ever "begotten" by God and that that person was Jesus Christ. But I believe God created other divine offspring such as The Holy Spirit

For instance, the Holy Spirit was created by God The Father, but is not a "son" of God as it is not a "human male" so cannot be called a "son" of anyone! And I don't believe the other deities who are not parts of the Godhead are human either although they may be humanoid.

So at the end of the day this is not an issue and I accept The Nicene Creed in its entirety

The concept of the trinity is connected to spiritual inclusiveness. God the Father is the God of the Old Testament; Jews. As time changed, Christ as the son of God came; Christians. This is written about in New Testament. Combined, these two comprise the Judeo-Christian way. The Holy Spirit will be written about in a Third Testament; Future Testament, which has yet to be compiled.

The trinity is about the worshiping by one big family. However, like any family, all the brothers and sisters are not all clones, They have separate personalities and propensities, but remain connected as one family. God the Father is about law, God the Son is about love and forgiveness of sin, and God the spirit is about faith. The family members all do a little of each, but each sibling may stress one of the three more than the others.

The Future Testament will be about the movement of the Spirit, which had an impact on the last 2000 years of history. It was connected to people of faith who had an impact on change; Joan of Arc and St Patrick and other people like that. But it also would include Marian Luther of the Protestant movement and other spin off spirits from the Catholic Church. The spirit can move one in strange ways.

The Future Testament would be a tribute to the faithful and their many accomplishments. It is the testament of the proof about the Spirit, and Son and Father. The Catholic Church has over 10,000 Saints from all over the world, many of which the records no longer exist. This is just the Catholic Church, and does not include all the Jewish and other Christians denominations, who were moved by the Spirit on behalf of everyone; DiVinci

The problem for compilation is how to make the Future Testament the same size as the Old and New, while representing the entire range of the Spirit, with stories of faith and change. It was not just a few prophets like the days of old, but thousands of prophets and shapers. How to do this justice in 500 pages?

This task is not part of my movement of the Spirit. I hope I can trigger the Spirit in others to take on this epic task. This will consolidate the era of the Spirit and created a vector for the future.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I agree with all of it.. and it definitely says Jesus was not created, but that he is God.

But the creed says that the Father is the ONE GOD. So how does that make Jesus God? So where does it says Jesus is also God if the Father is the ONE GOD?

 

[Wildswanderer]

But the creed says that the Father is the ONE GOD. So how does that make Jesus God? So where does it says Jesus is also God if the Father is the ONE GOD?

Right here:
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Right here:
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;

Jesus is the SON of God. If a man has a son then they are not the same person. They may share DNA and other characteristics but they are not the same. If Jesus is the Son of God then he is not the same person as God. A man's son is a man from man. A God's son is a God from a God but he is still not the same man or the same God.

 

[metis]

Jesus is the SON of God. If a man has a son then they are not the same person. They may share DNA and other characteristics but they are not the same. If Jesus is the Son of God then he is not the same person as God. A man's son is a man from man. A God's son is a God from a God but he is still not the same man or the same God.

And there are times when Jesus separated himself from being considered God as he said that he did not know when the end of times would be and that only God knew for sure when that would be.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

And there are times when Jesus separated himself from being considered God as he said that he did not know when the end of times would be and that only God knew for sure when that would be.

And Jesus said the Father was greater than himself so clearly they are not the same person.