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Christians what makes you not accept Islam?

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Now, if God wants a change, changes his mind about something; how would he inform humans about it? He did that as indicated in Holy Quran (Abrogated verses). Why should he send his Son again when the matters can be taken care by able humans? He has already indicated that the Son would come back one more time - before the Judgment day. What is wrong if he conveys his message to a righteous human (just as Mohammad was). Why just stop with Jesus? It appears God has sent prophets even after Mohammad times. God calls, but people do not listen.
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Why would a Christian not believe that Prophet Mohammed is not the last and final messenger?
I just want to clear the concept as to what is meant by "Muhammad - last and final messenger". Muhammad is the last and final law bearing prophet ie Quran the Word Revealed on Muhammad by G-d :
    • is comprehensive of all the teachings required for ethical, moral and spiritual progress of man.
    • Any reformer coming after him would only follow Quran and Sunnah of Muhammad.
    • No other person would receive revelation from G-d unless he follows Quran and Sunnah of Muhammad.
So last and final is in status.
Regards
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
The 40,000 or the more said, "The 30,000 Protestant denominations” argument fails on several points. First, there are not 30,000 Protestant denominations. Even under the most liberal definition of what constitutes a denomination, there are nowhere close to 30,000 Protestant denominations. The only way to get even remotely close to the 30,000 figure is to count every minor separation as an entirely different denomination. Further, the vast majority of Protestant Christians belong to just a handful of the most common Protestant denominations; i.e., Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, etc. Yes, it is undeniably sad that there are so many denominations, but the 30,000 Protestant denominations argument is an extreme exaggeration of the reality of the divisions within Protestantism. Second, even if there genuinely were 30,000 Protestant denominations, one thing all Protestant denominations agree on is that Jesus is God, God is a Trinity, Jesus was crucified for out sins, and was raised bodily from the dead. And only through Him can we make it to Heaven. And Paul warned that ANY person, prophet, or angel, if they tell you a different gospel then the one he preached with Christ guiding him then, let that person, that prophet, that angel be accursed. For he is not from God. So we can know which people are not if God by comparing what they say to what the Bible says. And if they don't match up, then it's a false gospel that Jesus warned us about.
I couldn't care less whether you call them Protestants or not, and I'm not going to quibble about the number. If there are 2, that's one too many. Furthermore, I agree with Paul. I just disagree with you as to which denomination is true and which ones are false. You think I believe in "a different gospel" and I think you do. So we're back to Square One. And on top of that, we're arguing about an entirely different topic than the OP wanted to discuss.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
True, there is a vast difference between Savior and a prophet. It is difficult for me to understand why anyone would seek a prophet when the Savior and direct access to the throne of God is available to believers. Christ is sufficient for me. As the scriptures say...“God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;” Hebrews 1:1-2
Suit yourself. I'll go with Christ and with His Church.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
"Muhammad - last and final messenger"
Who knows, God changed his mind, an afterthought. Can't God do that? What can you do if God so desires? Do we know what God thinks? May be he chose Joseph Smith for new instructions. Or even Koresh. Did we not get him killed like the Jews got Jesus killed?
 

JFish123

Active Member
Who knows, God changed his mind, an afterthought. Can't God do that? What can you do if God so desires? Do we know what God thinks? May be he chose Joseph Smith for new instructions. Or even Koresh. Did we not get him killed like the Jews got Jesus killed?
David Koresh slept with other mans wives. Hardly a moral man of God. Jesus warned that false Christ's and false prophets will come after Him, even saying there Jesus but don't believe them. David Koresh claimed he was Jesus, and his tree bore bad fruit showing who he was following and it wasn't God. Anyone who proclaims a different gospel then that of Christ Jesus, is a false Gospel. Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Bualluah etc... All preached contradicting gospels and therefor are false, as God cannot contradict Himself, for He is Truth. And Jesus showed and demonstrated He was Truth and the one gospel by Raising himself from the dead.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
David Koresh slept with other mans wives. Hardly a moral man of God. Jesus warned that false Christ's and false prophets will come after Him, even saying there Jesus but don't believe them. David Koresh claimed he was Jesus, and his tree bore bad fruit showing who he was following and it wasn't God. Anyone who proclaims a different gospel then that of Christ Jesus, is a false Gospel. Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Bualluah etc... All preached contradicting gospels and therefor are false, as God cannot contradict Himself, for He is Truth. And Jesus showed and demonstrated He was Truth and the one gospel by Raising himself from the dead.

Did Jesus write or dictate any gospel to anybody?
The ones the Christians have only has glimpses of what Jesus believed and did.
Regards
 

savethedreams

Active Member
I haven't found any outstanding difference between Islam and Jesus himself. I think sometimes, the disagreeing factor comes with Paul and Islam. What the apostle Paul said/stated about Jesus and Islam.
 

savethedreams

Active Member
Some Differences in Jesus and Muhammad
1) Their Sin:
Firstly, Jesus, according to the Biblical record, was sinless whilst Mohammad, according to the Koranic record, was sinful. In Mecca Muhammad received a command about his sin: Then have patience (O Muhammad). Lo! the promise of Allah is true. And ask forgiveness of thy sin and hymn the praise of thy Lord at fall of night and in the early hours.”(Surah 40:55)

2) Their dealing with sexual sins:
In Surah 24:2 Mohammad says:
“The fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment. [This punishment is for unmarried persons guilty of the above crime (illegal sex), but if married persons commit it (illegal sex), the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allah’s law.”
Muhammad as portrayed within the Koran and within the Hadiths paints a rather brutal scene, yet we see a vast difference with Jesus. Firstly, Jesus explains why there are vices such as adultery. In the Sermon on the Mount, regarding the sins of adultery and lust, he says:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” (Matt. 5:27-28)

3) Their Violence:
Jesus sets a very high standard for his followers to emulate if they are to “take up his cross and follow” him (Matthew 16:24). When Jesus was interrogated by the authorities he says:
“My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” (John 18:36)
Muhammad paints for us an altogether different picture as, which the Koran attests to, he committed assassinations, as well as threatened to murder over ten people. These threats stemmed from the fact these people offended him in some way, some, for example, wrote satirical poems about him. In Surah 33:60-61 Muhammad says:
“If the hypocrites, the sick of heart, and those who spread lies in the city [Medina] do not desist, We shall arouse you [Prophet] against them, and then they will only be your neighbors in this city for a short while. They will be rejected wherever they are found, and then seized and killed.”

4) Their religious freedom:
Jesus says: “If anyone comes after [follows] me” . . . (Matthew 17:24). Jesus let people decide for themselves, if they refuse to follow him then so bet it. The word “if” implies freedom in choosing to either accept the way of Jesus or to reject it. Unlike Muhammad there was no army or power that tried to force people to believe.
Whereas Muhammad forcefully imposes his will, we read in Surah 9:5:
“Then, when the months made unlawful for fighting expire, kill the mushriks [polytheists] wherever you find them, and seize them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, establish Salat [prayer five times a day] and pay the Zakat dues [charity tax], then let them go their way.” (Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur’an, vol. 2, p. 175; insertions mine).

5) Jesus condemned stealing: “Thou shall not steal” (Matthew 19:18), whereasMuhammad permitted stealing from unbelievers: “The people felt hungry and captured some camels and sheep (as booty)” (Bukhari 44:668).

6) Muhammad permits lying (Sahih Muslim 6303, Bukhari 49:857) whilst Jesus does not: “Thou shalt not bear false witness” (Matthew 19:18).

7) Jesus never owned slavers, or traded them, whereas Muhammad did: “Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Sell him to me” (Sahih Muslim 3901).

8) Whereas Jesus preached forgiveness (Matthew 18:21-22, 5:38), Muhammad did not. We saw above that he assassinated those who mocked or ridiculed him.

9) Muhammad taught revenge: “If then anyone transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him” (Koran 2:194), whereas Jesus did not: “If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also” (Matthew 5:39).

10) Their personal and private relationships differed greatly. Jesus was celibate, whereas Muhammad Married 13 wives and kept sex slaves (Bukhari 5:268, Koran 33:50).

I do believe your misunderstanding me. Mohammed is NOT ISLAM as Jesus is Christianity. Islam is Koran and other surahs are debated as holy, but not look upon in the same light as the Koran. Muslims do not worship Mohammed or 'follow' Mohammed as a Christian would follow Jesus. So, the question was NOT comparing and contrasting Jesus and Mohammed. It was more asking Jesus and Koran itself.
 

savethedreams

Active Member
David Koresh slept with other mans wives. Hardly a moral man of God. Jesus warned that false Christ's and false prophets will come after Him, even saying there Jesus but don't believe them. David Koresh claimed he was Jesus, and his tree bore bad fruit showing who he was following and it wasn't God. Anyone who proclaims a different gospel then that of Christ Jesus, is a false Gospel. Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Bualluah etc... All preached contradicting gospels and therefor are false, as God cannot contradict Himself, for He is Truth. And Jesus showed and demonstrated He was Truth and the one gospel by Raising himself from the dead.

That question where the trust comes from. Jesus didn't write the gospel, so is going against the gospel truly against Jesus or the person who wrote the gospel??
 

JFish123

Active Member
That question where the trust comes from. Jesus didn't write the gospel, so is going against the gospel truly against Jesus or the person who wrote the gospel??
The gospel was written by men by the spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit. So It's going against what actually happened-what Jesus said, did, was, and is
 

savethedreams

Active Member
The gospel was written by men by the spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit. So It's going against what actually happened-what Jesus said, did, was, and is

I have an issue MAJOR issue with Christianity I don't understand. It reminds me of a slick way a salesman talk to get you to buy a product. Why isn't the mention when Christian speak of Jesus. Instead of saying 'Jesus said", why not say 'according to the gospel of Matthew he quotes jesus saying'. In that way we know if there was a mediator or not.


I know we are getting off topic but 'WAS the gospel written by men the spirit of truth, holy spirit?" a simple yes isn't sufficient enough. Is THIS the ONLY string that Christians hold on to to keep their faith? Granted, I love religious/spiritual conversation, I don't want to challenge, convert or offend. I'm simply trying to get it.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
If gospels are written by men by the spirit of Truth, then how come the various Synods selected some and rejected others?
 

JFish123

Active Member
I have an issue MAJOR issue with Christianity I don't understand. It reminds me of a slick way a salesman talk to get you to buy a product. Why isn't the mention when Christian speak of Jesus. Instead of saying 'Jesus said", why not say 'according to the gospel of Matthew he quotes jesus saying'. In that way we know if there was a mediator or not.


I know we are getting off topic but 'WAS the gospel written by men the spirit of truth, holy spirit?" a simple yes isn't sufficient enough. Is THIS the ONLY string that Christians hold on to to keep their faith? Granted, I love religious/spiritual conversation, I don't want to challenge, convert or offend. I'm simply trying to get it.
It's because the gospels are reliable to what Jesus actually said. So there's no need to say "from the gospel of so and so Jesus said..." As He did say it. So since that's the case, it's easier and just as accurate to say "Jesus said..."
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Anyone who proclaims a different gospel then that of Christ Jesus, is a false Gospel. Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Bualluah etc... All preached contradicting gospels and therefor are false, as God cannot contradict Himself, for He is Truth. And Jesus showed and demonstrated He was Truth and the one gospel by Raising himself from the dead.
Joseph Smith preached exactly the same gospel as Jesus Christ did, the gospel that gradually changed over the centuries until it got to the point where, in many regards, it hardly even resembled the original gospel. He testified that Jesus is the Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God and the only means by which we can be reconciled to God. There's nothing contradictory about that.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Now, if God wants a change, changes his mind about something; how would he inform humans about it? He did that as indicated in Holy Quran (Abrogated verses). Why should he send his Son again when the matters can be taken care by able humans? He has already indicated that the Son would come back one more time - before the Judgment day. What is wrong if he conveys his message to a righteous human (just as Mohammad was). Why just stop with Jesus? It appears God has sent prophets even after Mohammad times. God calls, but people do not listen.
I'm really confused. This post makes a lot of sense to me, except for one thing: As an atheist, you evidently don't believe a word you've just written, do you?
 

savethedreams

Active Member
It's because the gospels are reliable to what Jesus actually said. So there's no need to say "from the gospel of so and so Jesus said..." As He did say it. So since that's the case, it's easier and just as accurate to say "Jesus said..."

Isn't that an assumption, that would be misleading to someone asking question about the Christian faith? One would have to accept and assume the gospels are reliable to what jesus said, before one can say "jesus said". Which would have to be proved or explained to someone who is not a christian. am i wrong?
 
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