Christians: Why aren't you Muslim?

[Sultan Of Swing]

Here is the thing; why not for everyone to be responsible and accountable for him/herself? Doesn't the human being have the capabilities and potential e.g. intellect to reach God? To be good?
Also, the language you speak about God is as if you're talking about a deficient human being. God doesn't "have to", God is Wise and He is not like us who "couldn't stand the sin" so he came with another backup plan. God doesn't need "to sacrifice". The issue of the need of savior to enter the kingdom of God would be a mediator between us and God. But here is the thing, we don't need that mediator. God can release us from our sins by simply asking for his forgiveness. Say inside your heart or loudly "God forgive me and guide me" and He will answer your call. This is the true direct personal and intimate relationship.

It's that simple. Why do you need to complicate what's simple? At the end, this complication lead to faulty and contradictory views. Secondly, God must be reachable and without complication, in every age and place. The guarantee for reaching and knowing Him is our intellect, reasoning, sincere intention and doing good and we have been given all these qualities since Adam. We don't need the sacrifice of another being to be good, and to turn to God. God doesn't need a sacrifice to show His Love. Nor do we need to believe in such concept to enter His kingdom.

Sin cannot be simply forgiven. Of course if God wanted to, He didn't have to sacrifice anything, and could have simply declared our sins forgiven. But that would not have been just and right. Before the crucifixion, God required us to sacrifice animals in order to atone for sin. Sin was not something that could be simply wished away. Every action had a consequence, and each sin had a punishment if not correctly atoned for. God is infinitely holy and righteous, and must punish the sinner or law-breaker. His Law would not be right if it did not bear punishment in order for it to be Law. But as the world became more and more sinful, something had to be done. God foresaw this, and so He sent down His Son (God in flesh) to live a perfect life that was according to the Law and completely sinless. When this spotless life, God Himself, was sacrificed, it would atone for an infinite amount of sins. No more sacrifices would have to be made, and yet all forgiveness and repentance would still be in accordance with the Law, as the blood of Jesus would have atoned for each and every sin.

 

[no-body]

why do people say they like the color blue when it's obvious red is the only proper color?

 

[Autodidact]

Christians aren't Muslim because they were raised in Christian families and Jesus has been built into their brain from infancy. Muslims aren't Christian because they were raised in Muslim families and Muhammad has been built into their brain from infancy.
The exceptions are too few to matter.

 

[Autodidact]

Sin cannot be simply forgiven. Of course if God wanted to, He didn't have to sacrifice anything, and could have simply declared our sins forgiven. But that would not have been just and right. Before the crucifixion, God required us to sacrifice animals in order to atone for sin. Sin was not something that could be simply wished away. Every action had a consequence, and each sin had a punishment if not correctly atoned for. God is infinitely holy and righteous, and must punish the sinner or law-breaker. His Law would not be right if it did not bear punishment in order for it to be Law. But as the world became more and more sinful, something had to be done. God foresaw this, and so He sent down His Son (God in flesh) to live a perfect life that was according to the Law and completely sinless. When this spotless life, God Himself, was sacrificed, it would atone for an infinite amount of sins. No more sacrifices would have to be made, and yet all forgiveness and repentance would still be in accordance with the Law, as the blood of Jesus would have atoned for each and every sin.

This is what happens when your brain has been shaped from infancy in a certain way. Look at what this person is saying. God could have just forgiven your sins, but that would not have been just. So He impregnated a virgin and arranged to have His son killed as a sacrifice for you, and now forgiving your sins is just. I mean, it would be crazy talk, even to the poster, if he hadn't had it drummed into him since before he could talk.

 

[Sahar]

Sin cannot be simply forgiven. Of course if God wanted to, He didn't have to sacrifice anything, and could have simply declared our sins forgiven. But that would not have been just and right. Before the crucifixion, God required us to sacrifice animals in order to atone for sin. Sin was not something that could be simply wished away. Every action had a consequence, and each sin had a punishment if not correctly atoned for. God is infinitely holy and righteous, and must punish the sinner or law-breaker. His Law would not be right if it did not bear punishment in order for it to be Law. But as the world became more and more sinful, something had to be done. God foresaw this, and so He sent down His Son (God in flesh) to live a perfect life that was according to the Law and completely sinless. When this spotless life, God Himself, was sacrificed, it would atone for an infinite amount of sins. No more sacrifices would have to be made, and yet all forgiveness and repentance would still be in accordance with the Law, as the blood of Jesus would have atoned for each and every sin.

Sin can be very simply forgiven by a thought and a wish inside your mind to be forgiven. Because God is all forgiving. What can I say about a Loving and Beautiful God Who forgives us just like that?
Allah the Almighty has said: “O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great as its.”

This is how we view God in Islam. Isn't this beautiful and more intimate than what you describe?

As Islam has its deep spiritual view, it's also a practical religion. Meaning, if you committed an offense against other human beings: we have to do whatever needs to be done to rectify the offense (within reason) and asking pardon of the offended party. In addition to asking God's forgiveness.

We, human beings, have to do this and that but God doesn't have to do anything. We are the ones who have to sacrifice, to be purified from our deficiency and weakness. God is greater than this.

God is infinitely holy and righteous, and must punish the sinner or law-breaker. His Law would not be right if it did not bear punishment in order for it to be Law.

Actually He doesn't want to punish us, that is why He forgives us with a sincere intention inside our hearts or with a good deed and no matter how much our sins are. The Loving, Merciful and Forgiving God doesn't have to punish the sinner after asking for His forgiveness. And When we experience and have such a beautiful relation with a Forgiving and Merciful God like this, we ourselves will try to treat people and all the living being by these great qualities; forgiveness and mercy, although it can't be compared to those of God...

When this spotless life, God Himself, was sacrificed, it would atone for an infinite amount of sins.

By God, I don't understand how someone can possibly believe in this. God Himself was sacrificed?

No being should atone/pay for the sins of other people. This is against justice, this is against individual responsibility and accountability, this is against respecting our intellect that is capable of differentiating between good and evil and this is against the good nature in us that motivate us to do good and ask for forgiveness.
"And every soul earns not [blame] except against itself, and no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another." Holy Qur'an

 

[Biblestudent_007]

What is about Christianity that you believe makes it more plausible than Islam?

My family is Christian, therefore I'm still a Christian.

 

[Autodidact]

My family is Christian, therefore I'm still a Christian.

Exactly; I commend you for your honesty.

 

[Biblestudent_007]

Christians aren't Muslim because they were raised in Christian families and Jesus has been built into their brain from infancy. Muslims aren't Christian because they were raised in Muslim families and Muhammad has been built into their brain from infancy.
The exceptions are too few to matter.

That's called Christian D.N.A . .

 

[sojourner]

Here is the thing; why not for everyone to be responsible and accountable for him/herself? Doesn't the human being have the capabilities and potential e.g. intellect to reach God? To be good?
Also, the language you speak about God is as if you're talking about a deficient human being. God doesn't "have to", God is Wise and He is not like us who "couldn't stand the sin" so he came with another backup plan. God doesn't need "to sacrifice". The issue of the need of savior to enter the kingdom of God would be a mediator between us and God. But here is the thing, we don't need that mediator. God can release us from our sins by simply asking for his forgiveness. Say inside your heart or loudly "God forgive me and guide me" and He will answer your call. This is the true direct personal and intimate relationship.

It's that simple. Why do you need to complicate what's simple? At the end, this complication lead to faulty and contradictory views. Secondly, God must be reachable and without complication, in every age and place. The guarantee for reaching and knowing Him is our intellect, reasoning, sincere intention and doing good and we have been given all these qualities since Adam. We don't need the sacrifice of another being to be good, and to turn to God. God doesn't need a sacrifice to show His Love. Nor do we need to believe in such concept to enter His kingdom.

Because, for the Xian, we account for the community -- not just ourselves. We -- the group of people who follow Jesus, are the Body of Christ -- the community of the one God, which is manifest on earth.

The Bible presents us with the theological concept that there is a distinct line between humanity and Divinity. Eating the fruit of the tree could not make us Godlike. Neither could building a tower. In the end, it's always God who initiates and we who respond. In short, God approaches us -- not he other way round. And God (we believe) has approached us most significantly by becoming one of us and reconciling us to God's Self.

God has already released us from our sin by that great act. God doesn't need us to "ask."

 

[sojourner]

Sin cannot be simply forgiven. Of course if God wanted to, He didn't have to sacrifice anything, and could have simply declared our sins forgiven. But that would not have been just and right. Before the crucifixion, God required us to sacrifice animals in order to atone for sin. Sin was not something that could be simply wished away. Every action had a consequence, and each sin had a punishment if not correctly atoned for. God is infinitely holy and righteous, and must punish the sinner or law-breaker. His Law would not be right if it did not bear punishment in order for it to be Law. But as the world became more and more sinful, something had to be done. God foresaw this, and so He sent down His Son (God in flesh) to live a perfect life that was according to the Law and completely sinless. When this spotless life, God Himself, was sacrificed, it would atone for an infinite amount of sins. No more sacrifices would have to be made, and yet all forgiveness and repentance would still be in accordance with the Law, as the blood of Jesus would have atoned for each and every sin.

That's fine if one subscribes to substitutionary atonement. Not all of us do, though.

 

[sojourner]

why do people say they like the color blue when it's obvious red is the only proper color?

What about purple?

 

[Where Is God]

nice way of preaching to the choir, do you have any more propaganda?

Nah, I think I am done for the day, I will save the rest for later.

 

[Bismillah]

Muslims aren't Christian because they were raised in Muslim families and Muhammad has been built into their brain from infancy.

What a useless assertation when Islam quite effectively displaced Paganism, Christianity, Judaism, and Hinduism throughout the ages.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

That's fine if one subscribes to substitutionary atonement. Not all of us do, though.

But how then do you explain the crucifixion? What was the point in Jesus' death if it were not to be the ultimate sacrifice? God could have easily declared us free from sin, and not have to sacrifice his Son.

 

[Where Is God]

But how then do you explain the crucifixion? What was the point in Jesus' death if it were not to be the ultimate sacrifice? God could have easily declared us free from sin, and not have to sacrifice his Son.

OR, Jesus was just a man who was killed because he was a prophet. Crazy people sometimes claim they are then Son of God ya know..
Plus, why do Christians nearly worship the cross, for "God's Sake" it's a torture device!

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Plus, why do Christians nearly worship the cross, for "God's Sake" it's a torture device!

We don't.

 

[Yerda]

What a useless assertation when Islam quite effectively displaced Paganism, Christianity, Judaism, and Hinduism throughout the ages.

That is a fair point, well made.

 

[Autodidact]

What a useless assertation when Islam quite effectively displaced Paganism, Christianity, Judaism, and Hinduism throughout the ages.

That's interesting, how there are no more Christians, Jews or Hindus.

What religion was your birth family, Bismillah? What religion were you raised in?

 

[Bismillah]

That's interesting, how there are no more Christians, Jews or Hindus.

What is more interesting is that they all converted to Islam.

What religion was your birth family, Bismillah? What religion were you raised in?

My father did not pray except for twice a year, during the Islamic versions of Christmas.

My mother does not and did not wear the Hijab.

I couldn't read nor speak in Arabic until very recently.

I was by all-accounts a cultural Muslim. I chose to become a Muslim myself, I had no religion until I chose one for myself.

 

[Autodidact]

What is more interesting is that they all converted to Islam.

My father did not pray except for twice a year, during the Islamic versions of Christmas.

My mother does not and did not wear the Hijab.

I couldn't read nor speak in Arabic until very recently.

I was by all-accounts a cultural Muslim. I chose to become a Muslim myself, I had no religion until I chose one for myself.

So you were raised Muslim in a Muslim family?