Christians: Why aren't you Muslim?

[Sum1sGruj]

Islam is quite vain to the Christian concept. I'm not trying to insult the religion, but asking a Christian why they are not Muslim is quite foolish. Jesus' teachings are very contrary to that of Muslims, and by extension very contrary to God's will.
I do understand how Muslims hold Jesus as a prophet.

 

[smoothcriminal12]

Yeshua. The Muslim religion, for me, makes you further from God rather than closer, and I feel the Christianity is the only religion out of the three Abrahamic faiths that allow you to have a close relationship with Him.

 

[Bismillah]

Disfellowshipping isn't something that bars you from God's graces. It is meant to keep people from rowing in circles with others who will disrupt them. It also isn't social damnation. When one changes their ways, one can rejoin. After all, we are all sinners and if wrong doing is that exact, then let us all spread to the corners of the world.

No, you are actively turning someone away from a house of God....

Muslims would see to punishing others regardless of their belief on accord of God, which is something I have always had a problem with.

Clearly you don't understand that which you have a problem with.

 

[Bismillah]

Likewise I think it a great perversion of rational thought to divide the supremacy and totality of the creator.

 

[Sum1sGruj]

No, you are actively turning someone away from a house of God....

God is a personal god. Nobody can turn anybody from Him. Instead of lashing others, we are supposed to dismiss them until they change their ways. Our sins were absolved by Jesus, and loping with troublemakers and people who speak against him is very costly.

 

[Pegg]

No, you are actively turning someone away from a house of God....

it is more important to keep the house of God clean from defilement, then to allow wrongdoers the opportunity to continue to practice their wrongdoing. You see, its not the quantity of adherents God is interested in...its the quality of them.

Nor is God interested in forcing someone to obey him. He wants people to follow him because their heart motivates them to do so.

 

[sojourner]

Likewise I think it a great perversion of rational thought to divide the supremacy and totality of the creator.

WE haven't done that. But you have done so by insisting that we have done so. Why would you do such a thing?

To the contrary, the Trinity is the greatest statement of God-in-community. God is not completely transcendent. God is also immanent.

 

[Bismillah]

God is a personal god. Nobody can turn anybody from Him.

No...there are some actions that people can do that facilitate the turning away from God, such as chasing him away from a place of worship...

Instead of lashing others,

No...we are not supposed to implement huduud unless the offender clearly brings it upon himself. Even if they testify to a wrong they are asked to repeat four times and repeat the crime they have committed and a person is easily absolved of their sins if they show a figure of repentance...Historically huduud were rarely implemented and used instead as a policy of deterrence to prevent the decay of morality in public and it has worked.

we are supposed to dismiss them until they change their ways.

If you dismiss them while they are sinning then you shun them in their greatest time of need. Religion becomes quite useless if that is the course taken.

Our sins were absolved by Jesus, and loping with troublemakers and people who speak against him is very costly.

There is no such thing as "loping with troublemakers" that would imply consenting to illicit activity or encouraging it. Instead we are told

The Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said, “Whoever among you sees an evil action, then let him change it with his hand [by taking action]; if he cannot, then with his tongue [by speaking out]; and if he cannot, then with his heart – and that is the weakest of faith.”

Let him change not shun the action, by disfellowshipping you are not helping you are abandoning those who are in need of help.

Furthermore I find the idea of Jesus (PBUH) "dying" for my sins to be inherently wrong because according to you if I die right now I will be "punished" so apparently he did not. The idea that I am inherently bad or born with a sin I did not commit is repulsive in itself and a perversion of the sense of justice. A man is judged according to his piety not the piety of his father.

 

[Bismillah]

WE haven't done that. But you have done so by insisting that we have done so. Why would you do such a thing?

That is doublespeak and illogical.

To the contrary, the Trinity is the greatest statement of God-in-community. God is not completely transcendent. God is also immanent.

No I am sorry you are separating God as if he needs to as if he is not pervasive on every plane of existence and by placing limits on God and saying that he is not "completely transcendent" you are defiling his name. Furthermore it is his totality that leads his immanence.

 

[Muffled]

Nothing. I like Islam, and I have been tempted to convert.

But I don't see any advantage.

I can't imagine why you wouldn't consider converting to Christianity since it offers a superior solution to sin.

 

[Pegg]

No...there are some actions that people can do that facilitate the turning away from God, such as chasing him away from a place of worship...

if a person is willfully committing sin, they have already turned away from God. The reason to remove him from the congregation is to keep the congregation clean. To keep the place of worship holy, you must keep out those who make it unholy by their badness.

it is the only way to uphold Gods righteousness.

 

[Muffled]

[youtube]m9SG6EA_5_E[/youtube]
YouTube - muslim Calls in a Christian Show By bohamadq8 - -

I came across this video and I think it is extremely hilarious.

Reaching God and knowing Him must be simple and logical with no theological complications that lead to contradiction and confusion.

Anyone can be wrong. Jesus is God in the flesh. The Father is God. The Paraclete is God. There is one God who is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Mulsimis are wrong all the time about this.

 

[Muffled]

God in islam can forgive sins without killing innocent on cross,

we have tolerance , no ugly killing on cross at all.

Too bad Islam came so long after the Romans. I am sure the Romans would have been more than happy to nail a few Muslims to the cross as well.

The cross has gone away but somehow beheadings are still with us. The innocent will always suffer at the hands of the wicked. It is a reality that will only go away when the wicked are no longer with us.

 

[sojourner]

back in the first century, it was the holy spirit that directed the apostles. Remember the account about the choosing of the 12th apostle? The 11 apostles did not cast a vote to choose a 12th apostle...the holy spirit chose Mattias by 'lots'

it shows the early church was certainly being led by holy spirit...not by men.

Who threw the lots?

 

[sojourner]

That is doublespeak and illogical.

If you think it's doublespeak, then you don't understand it well enough to comment on it.

No I am sorry you are separating God as if he needs to as if he is not pervasive on every plane of existence and by placing limits on God and saying that he is not "completely transcendent" you are defiling his name. Furthermore it is his totality that leads his immanence.

I didn't say God wasn't completely transcendent. But God is also completely immanent. There is no separation there. To say that God has become Incarnate is to place God in a squarely immanent and pervasive position within humanity.
Once again: If you don't understand it, you don't have any business commenting on it.

 

[Bismillah]

if a person is willfully committing sin, they have already turned away from God. The reason to remove him from the congregation is to keep the congregation clean. To keep the place of worship holy, you must keep out those who make it unholy by their badness.

No...a person is inherently flawed they are expected to sin. That does not give license to abandoning them, if a man is abandoned in the time of his spiritual need then religion is profoundly useless.

 

[Bismillah]

If you think it's doublespeak, then you don't understand it well enough to comment on it.

Perhaps you should explain then. Denouncing beliefs as an insult to Allah's transcendence and supremacy does not make one simultaneous commit the crime himself.

I didn't say God wasn't completely transcendent.

God is not completely transcendent.

But God is also completely immanent. There is no separation there. To say that God has become Incarnate is to place God in a squarely immanent and pervasive position within humanity.

That is false, Allah cannot be separated into any time and place as that by nature limits his transcendence. Therefore one cannot logically state that he is not intimately within the very fabric of humanity because of his totality

“…When I have fashioned him…and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him.” 15:29

“And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than [his] jugular vein” 50:16

Once again: If you don't understand it, you don't have any business commenting on it.

No, I understand it. The trinity is to divide Allah unto parts and seek to define the nature of that which cannot be subjetified nor quantified. You condense the overarching presence of Allah down into a humanistic form and anthropomorphize his being to replace the divine by the mundane and tarnish its purity by seeking reflections among humanity.

Say: He is Allah the One and Only;
Allah the Eternal Absolute;
He begetteth not nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him.

 

[Forever-C-King]

To sum it up in a few words, I can not accept Jesus Christ as anything short of my Saviour, the Son of God and the reason for which I am able to achieve great feats such as forgiveness and love unfeigned.

The major point of theology in Islam that I can't comprehend is why Allah would cease to call more prophets and close off the means by which AUTHORISED scripture could be written. I think we change too much as humans to rest on solely what once was, but that if God is, he would make himself known through a prophet today.

 

[sojourner]

That is false, Allah cannot be separated into any time and place as that by nature limits his transcendence.

The act of God becoming incarnate does not "separate" God from anything.

Therefore one cannot logically state that he is not intimately within the very fabric of humanity because of his totality

I never claimed that God was not immanent.

“…When I have fashioned him…and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him.” 15:29

So?

“And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than [his] jugular vein” 50:16

Again: So?

No, I understand it.

No, you don't. To wit:

The trinity is to divide Allah unto parts and seek to define the nature of that which cannot be subjetified nor quantified.

The Trinity doesn't divide God. It unifies God and reconciles humanity to God. God is perfectly subjective within each individual, yet perfectly transcendent above all. I can't help it if you can't "get it."

You condense the overarching presence of Allah down into a humanistic form

No, we don't. God becomes fully human of God's volition.

and anthropomorphize his being

No we don't. God is fully human in the person of Jesus. One cannot anthropomorphize what is already human.

to replace the divine by the mundane

No, God became one of us to lift the mundane to reconcile it to the Divine.

and tarnish its purity by seeking reflections among humanity.

It is that act that saves humanity, by reconciling humanity who cannot reconcile themselves.

You just keep banging your head on the same wall by proving over and over again that you DO NOT understand the Trinity with this sort of nonsense.

Which is the very reason why I am not Muslim. It doesn't make any theological sense for God to not be fully immanent and fully transcendent.

 

[Pegg]

No...a person is inherently flawed they are expected to sin. That does not give license to abandoning them, if a man is abandoned in the time of his spiritual need then religion is profoundly useless.

you realise im talking about 'unrepentant' wrongdoers, dont you?

in the bible, forgiveness is only given to those who repent and turn around from their wrongdoing. If they do not repent, then they are not forgiven and God wants them removed from his house.

If they do repent and stop the wrongdoing, then they are forgiven and shown mercy and it doesnt have to involve any corporal punishement.