Christians, why do you hate Gays?

[oldbadger]

Jesus could well have been gay for all we know, didn't he have a specific male disciple whom he loved?

I think he loved Mary M. Books that were kept out of the bible reported that she was his very closest adherent and personal friend, and they they used to kiss upon the mouth.

Hundreds of years later the Vatican (Pope?) declared that Mary M had been a prostitute. A few decades ago the Vatican (Pope?) declared that this was untrue and apologised.

I think Jesus was heterosexual, and may even have been married and widowed in the 18 years of his obscurity, before he began his ministry.

On another point, Paul was not married, claimed to be a Roman.......it was fashionable for Romans to have homosexual affairs, etc? (Caesar certainly did!) And since Paul did make a fuss about homosexuality 'from time to time', I wonder if he might have been throwing camourflage over his own interests?

 

[Desert Snake]

Sort of ironic that the thread is targeting Christians yet the Biblical sources being quoted are from the OT.
Many Christians don't even read the OT, or are highly critical of it.

 

[NIX]

Sort of ironic that the thread is targeting Christians yet the Biblical sources being quoted are from the OT.
Many Christians don't even read the OT, or are highly critical of it.

Except when it comes to homosexuality oddly.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why do people not talk about the obvious side effect of inserting a penis into an anus and then maybe into a mouth or a vagina?

Even a penis that hasn't been insterted into an anus can still cause infection in a mouth or vagina. It's called personal hygiene. A woman can even give yeast, fungal, or other infections to a partner, especially if she is not clean. But as long as you are clean, and clean inbetween certain acts, trying to argue infections is moot.

 

[RJ50]

Why do some people have a problem with homosexuality? It is as normal as being heterosexual.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why do some people have a problem with homosexuality? It is as normal as being heterosexual.

I don't remember what class, but I pointed out to one of my teachers that the academic and scientific focus has revolved around what makes a person homosexual, but you really don't hear of people looking for something that makes people heterosexual or bisexual, even though the answers should follow a similar trail.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I don't remember what class, but I pointed out to one of my teachers that the academic and scientific focus has revolved around what makes a person homosexual, but you really don't hear of people looking for something that makes people heterosexual or bisexual, even though the answers should follow a similar trail.

Good point. Could be that the bias is that heterosexuality is "normal" and assumed, homosexuality is "deviant" and must be studied for more information, and bisexuality doesn't really exist as an orientation (and therefore unable to offer any useful data).

I could be wrong, though.

 

[Straw Dog]

Even a penis that hasn't been insterted into an anus can still cause infection in a mouth or vagina. It's called personal hygiene. A woman can even give yeast, fungal, or other infections to a partner, especially if she is not clean. But as long as you are clean, and clean inbetween certain acts, trying to argue infections is moot.

We just have to accept that sex in general is a vile, dirty, bizarre act... but it feels right.

I find it strange that some people keep trying to control homosexuality from happening. When I find someone claiming that they're ex-gay, I purposely seduce them out of their delusion.

 

[Ingledsva]

I think he loved Mary M. Books that were kept out of the bible reported that she was his very closest adherent and personal friend, and they they used to kiss upon the mouth.

Hundreds of years later the Vatican (Pope?) declared that Mary M had been a prostitute. A few decades ago the Vatican (Pope?) declared that this was untrue and apologised.

I think Jesus was heterosexual, and may even have been married and widowed in the 18 years of his obscurity, before he began his ministry.

On another point, Paul was not married, claimed to be a Roman.......it was fashionable for Romans to have homosexual affairs, etc? (Caesar certainly did!) And since Paul did make a fuss about homosexuality 'from time to time', I wonder if he might have been throwing camourflage over his own interests?

Actually they make no fuss in the NT about homosexuality. They make a fuss about Sacred Sex (which includes male-male ritual sex) as it was IDOLATRY.

There is nothing against actual homosexuality.

I actually think Iesous mentions homosexual men in his eunuch speech about married men putting away their wives.

 

[Ingledsva]

Do you mean male temple prostitute? Wouldn't that necessarily make them homosexual?

Yes the Sacred Temple Prostitutes - and no that doesn't make they homosexual. They were trained to provide these services.

People today don't seem to be able to differentiate between ritual sex and actual sexual orientation.

We are talking ritual sex - not homosexuals.

 

[Desert Snake]

Yes the Sacred Temple Prostitutes - and no that doesn't make they homosexual. They were trained to provide these services.

People today don't seem to be able to differentiate between ritual sex and actual sexual orientation.

We are talking ritual sex - not homosexuals.

I'll take your word for it. I wasn't aware that the temple had ritual sex.

 

[Ingledsva]

Nope. Sorry. Maimonides is much later - Middle ages I don't remember exactly 11 something to 12 something. LOL

Talmud says there are 613, however it doesn't give a list. His list is his opinion, and there are pages of dissent and difficulties from other Talmudic scholars

Perhaps I should explain my reasoning, as you seem confused by it.

The chances of sodomy or homosexuality being "o.k." in that society is pretty unlikely. They had moralistic rules about various subjects, do you really think they would have just left out sexual morality?
Secondly, yes, obviously there is "dissent", as you put it, to Maimonides putting it in the 613 commandments, in fact using the oral Torah itself as a reference is probably not fool-proof, however considering all the other evidence, even the fact that the term "sodomite" is used in texts such as the KJV, use your reasoning skills and tell me you don't think that was included in the Bible.

I'm not confused in the slightest.

They didn't leave out sexual morality - obviously - they covered many areas including Sacred Sex (Idolatry.) but left out homosexuality. Interesting. Perhaps they weren't as backward as some people today when it comes to actual sexual orientation?

Again - sodomite at the time of the writings meant a SACRED PROSTITUTE!
A simple check in your Strong's will show this. Later it was used for homosexuals. We are talking Bible here.

Look at the verses where "sodomite" is the translation - use a Strong's to look up the actual Hebrew word - you will find QADESH. The Strong's definition for QADESH is a Sacred Prostitute. So they KNOW THIS - yet push a LIE and a anti-Homosexual agenda today!

 

[Ingledsva]

I agree with you that he didn't change them. However there are mistaken laws such as the tattoo ban, Homosexuality ban (in my opinion,) and others that will never be used again in civil society. Such as - Killing people that work on the Sabath. Killing adulterers, etc.

Really? What's your reasoning behind this opinion?

Same as it is behind all my opinions - I read them in their original languages - and I study the subject.

For instance some ancient Hebrew Priests were ritually set aside, - so that no people would approach, or touch them, they had blue tattoos on their foreheads. I am guessing this "mark" is probably the mark of Cain which the Bible mentions.

Tattooing isn't cutting, or branding, and has nothing to do with Pagan practices for the dead. Think about this - Flu shot needles and tattoo needles both pierce the skin and inject fluid. And they aren't for the dead. They - in mourning - cut gashes into themselves, pulled out hair, branded themselves with hot sticks from the ritual fires, and then covered themselves in the ash - rubbing it into the wounds.


Lev 19:28 Cuts - (for) dead - don't - make - skin - brands - gashes - don't - make - I –Yehovah

​

 

[Ingledsva]

Also note: Paul of Tarsus and his special thing with Timothy. Most likely gay.

ESPECIALLY thanks to the insistent supervised circumcision part.

Yes, plus this and the gay Iesous comments brought to mind the missing Mark text.

“Then they came to Jericho. As he was leaving Jericho with his disciples…” (Mark 10:46).

Where is what happened in Jerico?

There is an ancient letter from the Bishop of Alexandria (c. 125 C.E.) describing a deleted passage of Mark's Gospel. It includes a passage about Iesous/Jesus naked with a young man.

"...he stretched forth his hand and raised him, seizing his hand. But the youth, looking upon him, loved him and began to beseech him that he might be with him. And going out of the tomb they came into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days Jesus told him what to do and in the evening the youth came to him, wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God. And thence, arising, he returned to the other side of the Jordan..."

http://skeptically.org/newtestament/id5.html

 

[Ingledsva]

Why do people not talk about the obvious side effect of inserting a penis into an anus and then maybe into a mouth or a vagina?

Males and females have been having anal sex for thousands of years. We have illustrations of such on the walls of Pompeii.

 

[Desert Snake]

I'm not confused in the slightest.

They didn't leave out sexual morality - obviously - they covered many areas including Sacred Sex (Idolatry.) but left out homosexuality. Interesting. Perhaps they weren't as backward as some people today when it comes to actual sexual orientation?

Again - sodomite at the time of the writings meant a SACRED PROSTITUTE!
A simple check in your Strong's will show this. Later it was used for homosexuals. We are talking Bible here.

Look at the verses where "sodomite" is the translation - use a Strong's to look up the actual Hebrew word - you will find QADESH. The Strong's definition for QADESH is a Sacred Prostitute. So they KNOW THIS - yet push a LIE and a anti-Homosexual agenda today!

Look, if you're sure about the translation, then I'm not going to argue.
Concerning the tattoo issue I've read similar explanations, just wanted to get your take on it. BTW I'm not against tattoos and I don't obsess about homosexuals, in case you were wondering.

 

[Ingledsva]

I'll take your word for it. I wasn't aware that the temple had ritual sex.

They did. There are quite a few verses about them taking the objects of other Gods, and Sacred Prostitutes out of the Temples. HAPPENED OVER AND OVER. rEAD 1 & 2 kINGS.

2Ki 23:4 And the king commanded Hilkiah the high priest, and the priests of the second order, and the keepers of the door, to bring forth out of the temple of the LORD all the vessels that were made for Baal, and for the grove, and for all the host of heaven: and he burned them without Jerusalem in the fields of Kidron, and carried the ashes of them unto Bethel.
2Ki 23:5 And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in the places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven.
2Ki 23:6 And he brought out the Asherah from the house of the LORD, without Jerusalem, unto the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook Kidron, and stamped it small to powder, and cast the powder thereof upon the graves of the children of the people.
2Ki 23:7 And he brake down the houses of the sodomites (QADESH - H6945,) that were in the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for Asherah.

1Sa 2:22 Now Eli was very old, and heard all that his sons did unto all Israel; and how they had sex with the women that assembled/(PERFORM) at the entrance of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Some historians think this was actually originally part of the worship of the Hebrew - as the Bible tells us the people kept turning back to their original Goddess and God.

 

[Ingledsva]

For q connor

I decided to drop this one to the bottom so it could be found.

I'll take your word for it. I wasn't aware that the temple had ritual sex.

They did. There are quite a few verses about them taking the objects of other Gods, and Sacred Prostitutes out of the Temples. HAPPENED OVER AND OVER. rEAD 1 & 2 kINGS.

2Ki 23:4 And the king commanded Hilkiah the high priest, and the priests of the second order, and the keepers of the door, to bring forth out of the temple of the LORD all the vessels that were made for Baal, and for Asherah, and for all the host of heaven: and he burned them without Jerusalem in the fields of Kidron, and carried the ashes of them unto Bethel.
2Ki 23:5 And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in the places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven.
2Ki 23:6 And he brought out the Asherah from the house of the LORD, without Jerusalem, unto the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook Kidron, and stamped it small to powder, and cast the powder thereof upon the graves of the children of the people.
2Ki 23:7 And he brake down the houses of the sodomites (QADESH - H6945,) that were in the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for Asherah.

1Sa 2:22 Now Eli was very old, and heard all that his sons did unto all Israel; and how they had sex with the women that assembled/(PERFORM) at the entrance of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Some historians think this was actually originally part of the worship of the Hebrew - as the Bible tells us the people kept turning back to their original Goddess and God.

 

[Desert Snake]

For q connor

I decided to drop this one to the bottom so it could be found.

No need, thanks anyway.

 

[tumbleweed41]

So what are you saying the "sodomite" reference in Deut. 23:17 is actually referring to?

Deut.23:17
"There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel". -King james Version

According to chabad.org

There shall not be a prostitute of the daughters of Israel, and there shall not be a male prostitute of the sons of Israel.