Christians, why do you hate Gays?

[Lady B]

Vewry true. Now, how many is many? 2, perhaps?

No actually a few years ago a group of us did a poll to see what the Non-christians thought about same sex marriage and their main objections. really and truly there were a significant amount of people stating it is just un natural.I would say i personnally polled aprox 200, though the group had well over a thousand. I do not know the stats of how many used the against nature reasoning, but it was significant and not to be cast out as irrelevant.

 

[Storm]

No actually a few years ago a group of us did a poll to see what the Non-christians thought about same sex marriage and their main objections. really and truly there were a significant amount of people stating it is just un natural.I would say i personnally polled aprox 200, though the group had well over a thousand. I do not know the stats of how many used the against nature reasoning, but it was significant and not to be cast out as irrelevant.

Who did you poll? I was assuming you meant irl, not online. In which case the site is crucial information.

 

[idav]

I know not all of them do and there are many other religions that are the same. I am just wondering why a minority of Christians hate gays?

Cause some christains believe same sex to be a sin but it doesn't mean they hate them. Typically the stance is to hate the sin not the sinner. I think most any type of fornication is sin unless married so I don't know why people focus on gays. There are even those that aren't anti but still believe it wrong because of the bible.

 

[Lady B]

Who did you poll? I was assuming you meant irl, not online. In which case the site is crucial information.

It was in real life and I am not using it as support for an argument,I am only trying to show there are other reasons people vote no apart from Christian doctrines. as for your last post redirecting me to my own quote, I don't understand what you mean.

 

[Storm]

It was in real life and I am not using it as support for an argument,

I'm sorry, but I don't think I believe that, either. Not after the part where you said you informally polled over 1,000 people, and got 200 yourself.

I am only trying to show there are other reasons people vote no apart from Christian doctrines.

That was never contested, at least not by me. The idea that it's not only Christians and conservatives who vote no was.

 

[Lady B]

And another thought, Why are Christians being singled out as the hate group? in all due respect, many muslim countries both past and current, the penalty is death.If the muslims go in a majority what do you see happening for gay marriage? Do you see any Christians killing gays ? Ok let me change that to genuine Christians, not including the hate crime doers who then say they are Christian and so bulked up with us. Obviously genuine Christians will not go harm anyone regardless of what they are doing against God.

 

[Storm]

And another thought, Why are Christians being singled out as the hate group? in all due respect, many muslim countries both past and current, the penalty is death.If the muslims go in a majority what do you see happening for gay marriage? Do you see any Christians killing gays ? Ok let me change that to genuine Christians, not including the hate crime doers who then say they are Christian and so bulked up with us. Obviously genuine Christians will not go harm anyone regardless of what they are doing against God.

Because Christians are the majority here. They're the ones casting the votes.

I will reiterate that I'm not actually singling anybody out here, and point you to post 2.

 

[Lady B]

I'm sorry, but I don't think I believe that, either. Not after the part where you said you informally polled over 1,000 people, and got 200 yourself.


That was never contested, at least not by me. The idea that it's not only Christians and conservatives who vote no was.

I said a group of us informally polled and my own personal poling was aprox 200 people, those that I actually talked with, and so I surely can speak for myself right? I do not know why you insinuate I am lying to you,because I misread an article now all I say must be inaccurate? For what purpose? Frankly I don't take stock in what you believe or disbelieve, but I would ask you for some respect with your arguments please.

 

[Lady B]

Because Christians are the majority here. They're the ones casting the votes.

I will reiterate that I'm not actually singling anybody out here, and point you to post 2.

I was not adressing you alone in this one, more for the op.

 

[Penumbra]

No actually a few years ago a group of us did a poll to see what the Non-christians thought about same sex marriage and their main objections. really and truly there were a significant amount of people stating it is just un natural.I would say i personnally polled aprox 200, though the group had well over a thousand. I do not know the stats of how many used the against nature reasoning, but it was significant and not to be cast out as irrelevant.

According to this poll the vast majority of non-religious people think gay marriage should be legal.

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com...roduction/Cms/POLL/376mfrydeu2byekfbjf-mg.gif

Protestants: 38% say should be legal, 59% say should not be legal
Catholics: 51% say should be legal, 47% say should not be legal
No religious identity: 88% say should be legal, 12% say should not be legal

For the most part there just aren't really good arguments that give people the right to stop adult homosexual couples from marrying. So it seems to just come down to a religious issue, even though the first amendment protects against such things.

 

[Penumbra]

I know not all of them do and there are many other religions that are the same. I am just wondering why a minority of Christians hate gays?

I think 'hate' is a strong word for most people.

It stands that gay marriage is not currently legal on a national level in the United States and is not legal in most states. Most people in the country identify their religion as Christianity. Christians are also disproportionally against gay marriage than people who are not religious.

There are some people that are truly hateful.

There are other people that aren't exactly hateful, but they are just not very knowledgeable on the issue and are biased or not altruistic about it. Much of my extended family falls into this category. They're also kind of racist.

For example, a relative of mine who is 58 years old pretty much became acquaintances with a homosexual for the first time a year ago. She was raised in a religion that says homosexuality is wrong. This relative has lived in her current home for 35 years and worked in the same town her whole life. She has not had homosexual neighbors or workers. So a lesbian couple moves in on the street. My relative gets to know her and becomes friendly and they hit it off. Then she finds out the neighbor has a lesbian partner.

Her comments to me were like, "Hmm. She seems like a nice person anyway. I actually don't think they're doing it just to offend people. As far as I can tell they're actually attracted to each other and love each other. Who would have known?"

(Meanwhile I'm listening to her like .)

Nowadays she has remained very (genuinely) friendly with the neighbor, and likes her. She references the fact that she has a lesbian friend like it's a big deal and tries to sound accepting of it. She doesn't think gay marriage should be legal, though. She thinks it's kind of weird, but doesn't talk about it much.

I think those kinds of emotions are more along the lines of ignorance, indifference, and a complete lack of understanding the world outside of her own little bubble, rather than hate.

 

[Jainarayan]

And another thought, Why are Christians being singled out as the hate group? in all due respect, many muslim countries both past and current, the penalty is death.

Most Muslim countries are theocracies, the US is not. The US is a country of Christians, but it is not a Christian country. Christians have no right to make laws based on their religious beliefs.

 

[Lady B]

I think 'hate' is a strong word for most people.

It stands that gay marriage is not currently legal on a national level in the United States and is not legal in most states. Most people in the country identify their religion as Christianity. Christians are also disproportionally against gay marriage than people who are not religious.

There are some people that are truly hateful.

There are other people that aren't exactly hateful, but they are just not very knowledgeable on the issue and are biased or not altruistic about it. Much of my extended family falls into this category. They're also kind of racist.

For example, a relative of mine who is 58 years old pretty much became acquaintances with a homosexual for the first time a year ago. She was raised in a religion that says homosexuality is wrong. This relative has lived in her current home for 35 years and worked in the same town her whole life. She has not had homosexual neighbors or workers. So a lesbian couple moves in on the street. My relative gets to know her and becomes friendly and they hit it off. Then she finds out the neighbor has a lesbian partner.

Her comments to me were like, "Hmm. She seems like a nice person anyway. I actually don't think they're doing it just to offend people. As far as I can tell they're actually attracted to each other and love each other. Who would have known?"

(Meanwhile I'm listening to her like .)

Nowadays she has remained very (genuinely) friendly with the neighbor, and likes her. She references the fact that she has a lesbian friend like it's a big deal and tries to sound accepting of it. She doesn't think gay marriage should be legal, though. She thinks it's kind of weird, but doesn't talk about it much.

I think those kinds of emotions are more along the lines of ignorance, indifference, and a complete lack of understanding the world outside of her own little bubble, rather than hate.

she thinks it is weird.....un natural?

I really am trying to be fair and understanding, especially now that my loved one has labeled herself gay. Though she has not committed any act as of yet, she says she knows where her attractions lay. She has always been opposed to any femininity, refusing to wear girlie clothes, do her hair and her best friend growing up has been her boy cousin. Other people have suspected, but I was blind to any possibility I guess. So really I don't know how to handle this in a loving and supporting way without going against my own beliefs in the process.I had mentioned her having children and she Got kind of hostile saying if Romney has any power then that possibility is out of the question, to which I laughingly replied, Oh Lord now your a liberal too!!
Sincerely I need to learn how to accept without acquiescing, and I need to be there for her in the hardships she will inevitably face. I wish so much to protect her from any hate but I need to be sure I am not one she needs protection from.....

 

[Lady B]

Most Muslim countries are theocracies, the US is not. The US is a country of Christians, but it is not a Christian country. Christians have no right to make laws based on their religious beliefs.

I actually agree with you, we should not be making laws based on our religious beliefs, however we should vote based on our religious beliefs and as a majority group this is how laws are passed.

 

[idav]

she thinks it is weird.....un natural?

I really am trying to be fair and understanding, especially now that my loved one has labeled herself gay. Though she has not committed any act as of yet, she says she knows where her attractions lay. She has always been opposed to any femininity, refusing to wear girlie clothes, do her hair and her best friend growing up has been her boy cousin. Other people have suspected, but I was blind to any possibility I guess. So really I don't know how to handle this in a loving and supporting way without going against my own beliefs in the process.I had mentioned her having children and she Got kind of hostile saying if Romney has any power then that possibility is out of the question, to which I laughingly replied, Oh Lord now your a liberal too!!
Sincerely I need to learn how to accept without acquiescing, and I need to be there for her in the hardships she will inevitably face. I wish so much to protect her from any hate but I need to be sure I am not one she needs protection from.....

The problem is the power nature has over nurture. With all the malace people can cause, what people do privately legal/consensually in the bedroom is the least of my concerns.

 

[Alceste]

why not look closely at the states that oppose gay marriage, some of these states are liberal, are you suggesting these states have a 60% christian majority? The media , the universities, are all in an uproar and consistantly rage against homophobia, yet when they go to the polls and vote their true minds, many are obviously folding and voting against this. If as you say the majority is for gay marriage, then how do you justify the majority of states opposing it in the polls?

I explained this already. If you phone a random number of Americans and ask whether they oppose gay marriage, over half will say no, and about 40% will say yes. Although it is a minority opinion, it is a very politically active and motivated minority. When it comes to ballot measures, only people who vote get to have a say, so if more people from one side than the other turn up at the polls, it is decided that way rather than by popular opinion.

Nobody who rages against homophobia is sneakily voting against gay marriage. That's wishful thinking. Little by little marriage equality is gaining acceptance, state by state, country by country. Gay marriage is already completely legal and equal to straight marriage in my country and many others. Civil unions are legal in 9 states, and full, equal marriage is legal in 6. There are many gay marriage measures on the ballot in this election, and the momentum is certainly in favour of marriage equality.

Check out this map for more info.

Same-sex marriage status in the United States

 

[Lady B]

The problem is the power nature has over nurture. With all the malace people can cause, what people do privately legal/consensually in the bedroom is the least of my concerns.

what if it is your child? I said the same things pretty much prior to my loved ones convictions. I had no animosity or even concern for anyone's sexual indeavors. It really never became my issue other then the occasional religious or political debate and polling groups. Now it is real to me, it is a concern to me and I feel quite deflated and helpless....

I know what God says, yet I struggle as a mother who loves her child and wants only her happiness. I feel her pain and feel her fear, I feel her sorrow of loss to those who will shun her. I feel her anxiety to be accepted, to be supported, to be proud....
It is just all so complicated now .

 

[Penumbra]

she thinks it is weird.....un natural?

Yes, my relative thinks its unnatural. She's also kind of racist and not very knowledgeable about things in general. I wouldn't use her as an example of knowledgeable discernment.

I really am trying to be fair and understanding, especially now that my loved one has labeled herself gay. Though she has not committed any act as of yet, she says she knows where her attractions lay. She has always been opposed to any femininity, refusing to wear girlie clothes, do her hair and her best friend growing up has been her boy cousin. Other people have suspected, but I was blind to any possibility I guess. So really I don't know how to handle this in a loving and supporting way without going against my own beliefs in the process.I had mentioned her having children and she Got kind of hostile saying if Romney has any power then that possibility is out of the question, to which I laughingly replied, Oh Lord now your a liberal too!!
Sincerely I need to learn how to accept without acquiescing, and I need to be there for her in the hardships she will inevitably face. I wish so much to protect her from any hate but I need to be sure I am not one she needs protection from.....

It's good that you want to protect her and that you're introspective enough to make sure you're treating her well.

So really I don't know how to handle this in a loving and supporting way without going against my own beliefs in the process.

I think a key thing to keep in mind is that your beliefs don't necessarily have to be unchanging if you learn new facts about a topic. A healthy belief should be subject to change if the facts lead a certain way.

I think too many people think along the lines of, "Here's my conclusion, now what are the facts?" rather than "What are the facts, so I can form a tentative conclusion?"

Here are some things worth noting, in no particular order:

-Psychologists do not classify homosexuality as unnatural or a disorder. Decades ago, the American Psychiatric Association considered it to be, but over time it was found that practically no evidence supports that it is a disorder and that evidence indicates it is not. So for 40 years now, it has not been considered a disorder in professional circles. It's considered a normal variation on human sexuality. The World Health Organization also does not include it as a disorder or unnatural. So there's a divide in the general public's opinion but in professional circles there really isn't any big debate here.

-Homosexuality occurs in many species, not just humans.

-The national debate about gay marriage is about legal marriage, not religious marriage. The vast majority of people that are in support of gay marriage just want identical legal marriage for consenting adults. They don't want to tell churches or temples or other religious organizations that they have to marry gay couples, because legally, a church-wedding is just a tradition with no legal bearing.

-Personal beliefs about what kinds of sexual acts are moral or not should be considered somewhat independently from the law. We shouldn't form our opinions into law. Laws protect people, but if there is no strong argument for restricting people's rights, then their rights shouldn't be restricted. It's okay to be personally against something while being legally in favor of it. There's all sorts of things I find personally wrong that I don't want to put into law. Like I think cheating on a partner is terrible, but I don't want to make it a crime. That's for the partners to sort out.

-Religion is not a basis for developing laws in the U.S.. Based on the Constitution and the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Constitution, any law must reflect a genuine need rather than something based substantially on religious views. As I pointed out in a previous post, the vast majority of non-religious people support legal gay marriage. http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3136196-post130.html So people's religion seems to play a large role in desiring to interfere with decisions between consenting adults without a basis in secular law.

-Imagine you're exclusively attracted to women. Now if you had your existing religion still in that scenario, perhaps you'd have internal struggles about what that means and you'd have to work that out. But suppose that in a scenario, it's a religion you don't believe in that seeks to impair your ability to form a loving partnership with people you fall in love with. They seek to make it unlawful to marry who you want to marry, and cite a book like a Qu'ran or something as justification for this despite the fact that you live in a country where religion is not allowed to be a basis for laws. Or they just say they don't like it or think it's weird, and use that as a basis for law, despite the position by professionals that it is not unnatural. You'd likely be pretty bothered by such people. Or consider an alternative example where people and their holy books say that eating meat is wrong and leads to a hellish punishment, and then seeks to not allow you to eat meat because of that. You'd probably argue that this is not a basis for law.

-You say you know what God says, but do you? Are you sure? Can your position on this matter change? What basis do you have to believe that God is against homosexuality? Paul apparently said it. The author of Leviticus said it. Is that the primary basis for your belief? People in Leviticus were also against eating shellfish and wearing mixed fabrics and lived over 2,000 years ago without the research we have on topics like this. And Paul was a man who wrote letters. If the opinions of those men are your basis for believing that your god is against homosexuality, is it that solid of a belief?

 

[idav]

what if it is your child? I said the same things pretty much prior to my loved ones convictions. I had no animosity or even concern for anyone's sexual indeavors. It really never became my issue other then the occasional religious or political debate and polling groups. Now it is real to me, it is a concern to me and I feel quite deflated and helpless....

I know what God says, yet I struggle as a mother who loves her child and wants only her happiness. I feel her pain and feel her fear, I feel her sorrow of loss to those who will shun her. I feel her anxiety to be accepted, to be supported, to be proud....
It is just all so complicated now .

That may just happen with one of my kids, hard to say. The way I see it is its better to have the safest lifestyle. With that I would prefer stability and marriage even regardless of sexual orientation. Really I would like they become priests and nuns but not exactly practical.

 

[Jainarayan]

I actually agree with you, we should not be making laws based on our religious beliefs, however we should vote based on our religious beliefs and as a majority group this is how laws are passed.

There's a contradiction there. Voting based on religious beliefs is making laws based on religious beliefs. Moreover, this is not a democracy. It is a representative republic. Democracy is tyranny and rule of the majority. Our representatives' responsibilities are to ensure fairness to all citizens within the constraints of the Constitution. For example, if 90% of voting Americans are heterosexual and opposed to same-sex marriage, is it fair to the other 10% who are gay, to not be able to marry? Is that what the US is based on, majority rule? I think not. :no: