Christians, why do you hate Gays?

[Lady B]

Here is the problem as I see it anyway. I agree with Storm and others who say that it is a minority that actually hate gays, and I would even emphasize this by saying that it is very tiny minority that actually hates. But the problem is that it is a much larger percentage of Christians, approaching half I would say, that acts in a way that is hateful. I am talking about discrimination and the denial of basic human rights. Their motivation is not hate, they act out of confusion and ignorance. But regardless of motivation, the results are the same.

What basic human rights are being denied them by christians?

 

[no-body]

It is technically true that those Christians who outright hate gays are in the minority. Much worse is the "love the sinner hate the sin" ones that are the majority because a lot of them want LGTB people to live loveless empty celibate lives with no rights. To me this is much worse than outright hate, at least the fundies are honest.

 

[Storm]

What basic human rights are being denied them by christians?

Equal treatment under the law is the biggest issue.

 

[Storm]

It is technically true that those Christians who outright hate gays are in the minority. Much worse is the "love the sinner hate the sin" ones that are the majority because a lot of them want LGTB people to live loveless empty celibate lives with no rights. To me this is much worse than outright hate, at least the fundies are honest.

Very true, thank you.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And here is the problem as I see it: you don't fight flawed and bigoted attitudes by promulgating outlandishly flawed and bigoted attitudes.

Do you really think that is what I am doing?

Of course not. I was referring to the thoroughly obnoxious OP.

 

[Me Myself]

First I will say that I disagree with the mainstream Christian view on the subject, but then I´ll clarify:

The dogma is against homosexual acts, but it is not against homosexuals. Yes, I agree that it is unnecessary for an homosexual to try to refrain it´s natural sexual urges when s/he has a consenting partner and they can have sex in a safe and responsible way. Now, the church does feel it is necessary and while it is wrong with that, it has reasons from it´s dogma for it.

It has nothing to do with hate. Sure, some Christians may just be using the dogma to spill their homophobia, but that does not mean that they are homophobes because they are Christian. Then yes, there are some people that are against Homosexual sex and marriage because they are Christian, but they do not gain hate towards gay people because of that.

So, that´s for fairness sake. The dogma is to disagree with homosexual sex, not to hate homosexuals. The dogma specifically tells Christians to love others.

 

[Lady B]

Equal treatment under the law is the biggest issue.

regarding? marriage? It is my understanding that same sex marriages are being performed, just not by The church, Is this not a right of The church to deny this practice? If it is a sin in the bible, cannot a church prohibit it ? why not? really, If I want to do something I know is against my religion, should I be angry my pastor won't condone it from the pulpit?

 

[Storm]

regarding? marriage? It is my understanding that same sex marriages are being performed, just not by The church, Is this not a right of The church to deny this practice? If it is a sin in the bible, cannot a church prohibit it ? why not? really, If I want to do something I know is against my religion, should I be angry my pastor won't condone it from the pulpit?

Then your understanding is quite flawed. Yes, many churches honor their congregants by performing commitment ceremonies, but said ceremonies carry no legal weight.

Some individual states allow same sex marriage contracts, but they are in the minority, and still prevented from allowing full legal equality by the federal government.

 

[Me Myself]

Don't know about Christians hating gays, but . . .

"A new survey conducted by LifeWay Research finds that 44 percent of Americans [not only Christians] believe homosexuality is a sin. Meanwhile, 43 percent believe it is not, and 13 percent are not sure.

Among evangelical, fundamentalist or born again Christians, 82 percent say homosexuality is a sin while only 14 percent say it is not a sin. This is compared to the 29 percent of those from other religions who say homosexuality is sinful.

"While we find 44 percent believe homosexuality is a 'sin,' Gallup reports 56 percent of Americans consider gay and lesbian relations morally acceptable," McConnell said."
source
​

This translates into 69% of Christian Americans (not simply Americans in general) believe homosexuality is a 'sin,'

Yes, and they are wrong, but that doesn´t mean they "hate" gays. They are against homosexuality, that is without question.

It´s like me saying you hate your friends if I find out you disagree with them on something. It is a non sequitor.

 

[Skwim]

These sort of reports (survey results) fail to word it as it should be: "A new survey conducted by LifeWay Research finds that 44 percent of Americans surveyed [in geographic and demographic areas] believe homosexuality is a sin." All 300 million Americans cannot have been polled to give their opinions. This is why I dismiss survey results.

Then I suggest you read up a bit on polling methodology. Here's a good place to start.

 

[Skwim]

Yes, and they are wrong, but that doesn´t mean they "hate" gays.

And that's why I prefaced my post by saying

"Don't know about Christians hating gays, but . . ."​

 

[Lady B]

Then your understanding is quite flawed. Yes, many churches honor their congregants by performing commitment ceremonies, but said ceremonies carry no legal weight.

Some individual states allow same sex marriage contracts, but they are in the minority, and still prevented from allowing full legal equality by the federal government.

I would say it is a goverment issue then right?

 

[Storm]

I would say it is a goverment issue then right?

That would be why I said "equal treatment under the law." I don't know why you brought pulpits into it, unless you mean to imply that denial of these rights is not religiously motivated. In that case, I'd ask you to support your claim.

 

[Me Myself]

And that's why I prefaced my post by saying

"Don't know about Christians hating gays, but . . ."​

Oh yes I saw that, I was not debating you, just commenting on what you said

 

[Lady B]

That would be why I said "equal treatment under the law." I don't know why you brought pulpits into it, unless you mean to imply that denial of these rights is not religiously motivated. In that case, I'd ask you to support your claim.

I don't agree the federal goverments denial of equal rights is the fault of Christians, My stand is that the church should not be forced to accept, condone or perform any ceremonies against The word of God. If the courts want to perform the ceremonies or private wedding chapels then so be it.

 

[Storm]

I don't agree the federal goverments denial of equal rights is the fault of Christians, My stand is that the church should not be forced to accept, condone or perform any ceremonies against The word of God. If the courts want to perform the ceremonies or private wedding chapels then so be it.

Whose fault is it, then, if not the majority who supports politicians who refuse to extend equal rights?

Nobody's saying that any church should be forced to marry people it disapproves of. I do find it quite telling that you totally ignored that not all churches take that stance.

 

[Lady B]

Whose fault is it, then, if not the majority who supports politicians who refuse to extend equal rights?

Nobody's saying that any church should be forced to marry people it disapproves of. I do find it quite telling that you totally ignored that not all churches take that stance.

No I commend you for your fairness, I am only trying to show how it is seen as hate minded Christians because we refuse to allow it in the churches and that is very unfair. There is a story recently how a chapel refused to perform a same sex marriage and they were sued and forced to shut down. what are your thoughts on that?

 

[Storm]

No I commend you for your fairness, I am only trying to show how it is seen as hate minded Christians because we refuse to allow it in the churches and that is very unfair. There is a story recently how a chapel refused to perform a same sex marriage and they were sued and forced to shut down. what are your thoughts on that?

I'd have to see the story, because to be blunt, I don't believe it.

 

[Lady B]

I'd have to see the story, because to be blunt, I don't believe it.

ok let me grab it, hold on....

 

[Onkara]

Actually, there are quite a lot of Christians who now don't really pay as much attention to Paul. It has been established by some that Paul's works were not supposed to be included in the Bible and that some of them were not even written by Paul. This really has nothing to do with the discussion, however.

Hi Christine
Thanks for the reply, I think it is related because from what I can tell it is the writing of Paul on which the Christians can base hatred of homosexuals. So if we could discriminate the Christians who don't pay much attention to Paul then we can eliminate those groups from the dilemma (I would also like to know because I don't agree with Paul). What do you think?

1 Corinthians 6:9 - 10
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
9 Don’t you know that evil people won’t have a share in the blessings of God’s kingdom? Don’t fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual will share in God’s kingdom.​

Romans 12:9
[ Rules for Christian Living ] Be sincere in your love for others. Hate everything that is evil and hold tight to everything that is good.​