Christmas is not secular

[Quagmire]

So, basically Christmas isn't secular. It's commercialized, yes, however the holiday is about Jesus, regardless of the "Yule" date etc.

For most people it isn't about Jesus. According to the New York Times Santa Claus is the number 1 most recognizable icon for kids American Feast - Only Santa Claus is Better Known to Kids than Ronald McDonald | Corporate Accountability International

Ronald McDonald is in second place, which means that, at best, Jesus is in third place.

This being the case, why do non-Christians celebrate Christmas? Is it hypocrisy?

People have been celebrating the Winter Solstice under a lot of different names, probably for as long as there's been people.

We call it Christmas. If we didn't call it that, we'd be calling it something else.

 

[Walkntune]

Because it is secular, simple as that. Christmas as it's celebrated here and now has little, if anything, to do with Jesus.

Santa was not secular either. He was a Saint.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Santa was not secular either. He was a Saint.

Correction: Nicholas was a saint. Santa is the end result.

 

[ChristineES]

The image of Santa Claus doesn't seem to have much in common with St. Nicholas, except maybe the name.

 

[Walkntune]

The image of Santa Claus doesn't seem to have much in common with St. Nicholas, except maybe the name.

To me He represents the joy brought about from given to others freely .The same as Jesus taught better to give than to recieve. The rest of it i suppose is secular.

 

[Quagmire]

To me He represents the joy brought about from given to others freely .The same as Jesus taught better to give than to recieve. The rest of it i suppose is secular.

To most people, he represents shopping.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... to pose a question based on a conclusion drawn from a faulty presumption seems less than useful.

That's what this forum is for. Getting peoples opinions.

So, you pose a question based on a conclusion drawn from a faulty presumption in order to get peoples opinions.

 

[ChristineES]

To most people, he represents shopping.

I guess we can see Santa as the "Spirit of Giving" or the "Spirit of Commercialism". I don't think most little kids see Santa as the latter- not until they are at least six or so.

 

[Desert Snake]

So, you pose a question based on a conclusion drawn from a faulty presumption in order to get peoples opinions.

lol

 

[Desert Snake]

The only thing not secular about Christmas is the name. What does decorating trees, hanging up stockings, putting up mistletoe and holly, etc. have to do with Jesus? People are not required to read Luke Chapter 2 if they don't want to. Most movies about Christmas have to do with Santa Claus. While Silent Night, Joy to the World, etc are religious- Deck the Halls, Jingles Bells, etc are not religious.
Miracle on 34th Street, for example, wasn't at all about the existence of Jesus or God, but whether this nice old man was Kris Kringle, Santa Claus, Father Christmas, etc.

So, even though people like me look at the religious meaning of it- most people do not.

Well I hardly celebrate Christmas, so it's good to get other peoples opinions on it.
Secular it is!

 

[A.Anderson]

So, basically Christmas isn't secular. It's commercialized, yes, however the holiday is about Jesus, regardless of the "Yule" date etc.
This being the case, why do non-Christians celebrate Christmas? Is it hypocrisy?

Hmm, I guess the question is better asked, "Why do Christians celebrate a Pagan holiday and claim it for their own?". Yes, that would be a much better question, please answer.

 

[Me Myself]

So, basically Christmas isn't secular. It's commercialized, yes, however the holiday is about Jesus, regardless of the "Yule" date etc.
This being the case, why do non-Christians celebrate Christmas? Is it hypocrisy?

Hmm, I guess the question is better asked, "Why do Christians celebrate a Pagan holiday and claim it for their own?". Yes, that would be a much better question, please answer.

Look at it this way SKKF, christmass became far more than what it was initially.

The same way christians took the celebration of sun invictus of the mithraism that was celebrated in 25 december and decided it was actually the celebration of christ´s birth instead of the sun so instead of "christianising" the Soul Invictus celebration, we secularized christmass.

Difference is we are not that picky to change it´s name

 

[Desert Snake]

Hmm, I guess the question is better asked, "Why do Christians celebrate a Pagan holiday and claim it for their own?". Yes, that would be a much better question, please answer.

Why don't you make a thread asking Christians why they celebrate a pagan holiday?

 

[Me Myself]

Why don't you make a thread asking Christians why they celebrate a pagan holiday?

The reason is they saw a chance to make convertional profit from an already existing celebrations.

this is the same reason why non-christians secularize christmass. It´s just easier than making up a whole holyday from nothing. Best just add up so much new stuff that it barely bears any resemblance to the original celebration. You know, how christianity did to sun invictus!

 

[Desert Snake]

The reason is they saw a chance to make convertional profit from an already existing celebrations.

this is the same reason why non-christians secularize christmass. It´s just easier than making up a whole holyday from nothing. Best just add up so much new stuff that it barely bears any resemblance to the original celebration. You know, how christianity did to sun invictus!

And yet the solution to the question is simply to start a thread asking Christians why they celebrate a pagan holiday.

 

[JacobEzra.]

Hmm, I guess the question is better asked, "Why do Christians celebrate a Pagan holiday and claim it for their own?". Yes, that would be a much better question, please answer.

Pagans went to Christ-Mas? They celebrated Jesus' birth?

Just because its close to the same time, doesn't mean its the same thing. The causes of celebration are completely different.

 

[Splarnst]

What?! Did I even say that I celebrate Christmas? Get your facts straight before throwing out drivel.

What?! Did I even say you celebrate Christmas? Or anything about you at all?

Get your facts straight before throwing out drivel.

 

[Me Myself]

Pagans went to Christ-Mas? They celebrated Jesus' birth?

Just because its close to the same time, doesn't mean its the same thing. The causes of celebration are completely different.

25 december he rebirth of Mithras was celebrated as Sun Invictus. Thing is at that time many mithraists confused their religion with christianity cause of the similarities, and christians took advantage of it.

The specific reasonw hy christian choose to celebrate "jesus" brth in that time was to take advantage of the pre-existing celebration of the similar cult in that time.

Now I do agree with you last statement though, (not sure I would say "completely" different), many people elebrate JEsus´s birth in christmass, most people though are much more prone to remember giving presents to loved ones and such and kinda forget about Jesus or even purposefully ignore him (non-christians)

The way I see it, you got the christmass spirit being much greater than the christ-mass spirit, which is very good because then we have a holyday about sharing with family and generosity that is in no way limited to christians.

 

[Me Myself]

And yet the solution to the question is simply to start a thread asking Christians why they celebrate a pagan holiday.

Not at all, I have historic facts, why would I need confirmation of other christians? History is how I explained it to you, being a christian doesn´t precisely change reality, and I doubt there are any 3rd century christians in the forum anyways

 

[gnomon]

So, basically Christmas isn't secular. It's commercialized, yes, however the holiday is about Jesus, regardless of the "Yule" date etc.
This being the case, why do non-Christians celebrate Christmas? Is it hypocrisy?

But it isn't. Christmas is many different things to many different people. There is no actual ownership.

So, basically, you may consider the possibility that you're setting up a straw man. Ritual, ceremony, holiday - none of these are cultural fossils; all are what they are continuously becoming. To pretend otherwise is simply nonsense.

I agree. I view Christmas as a revived tradition in the West that has it's roots in traditions predating Christianity in Europe but the revival was not an attempt to bring back Paganism. People celebrate holidays and Christmas is one of those in which the people kept the traditions and redefined it as they saw fit in spite of Pagan or Christian meanings. Those were not what was important. The traditions are celebrated, added, removed and so on for the sake of the holiday itself.

Hmm, I guess the question is better asked, "Why do Christians celebrate a Pagan holiday and claim it for their own?". Yes, that would be a much better question, please answer.

They don't. To me it seems more plausible that the people who became Christians kept the traditions and simply applied them to a new religion. In other words, it wasn't Christians who co-opted the traditions but the former Pagans who converted that kept their own traditions.

I see celebrations of this holiday which include both the family centered celebration as well as parties in which people play silly games, drink, etc.

This is the 21st Century. What exactly people were doing prior the massive revival of Christmas in America during the late 18th century we have only some knowledge of (Dutch practice of gift giving, for example) and what people were doing prior to the 9th Century during various different Winter Solstice celebrations is hardly known.

The one thing I do know is that none of us, no matter what tradition people claim to adhere to, own the "real" Christmas.

Merry Christmas.